Helmets - safe at any speed?

Daz555

timpop wrote:

bails87 wrote:

timpop wrote:

Wearing a helmet saved the lilfe of James Cracknell as we all know

Do we all know?

Proof please....

Do your own research lazy boy.

There is no proof. Cracknell's example is another "without the helmet I'd be dead" story. This cannot tested because he was not hit without a helmet was he?

As for helmets generally I just want one thing - that people just leave people alone with whatever choice they make with regards to helmet wear.

Markmjh

I ALWAYS wear a helmet when off-road, had too many scrapes that have damaged helmets(including taking a half inch deep, 3 inch long gouge out of one) to not wear one.
I don't know for sure that they have saved me, the extra size of the helmet may of caught the rock that gouged it where as my head may of missed it! But personally i would rather wear it than not.

They may only be "tested" to 12mph, but i think we all know people that have had off's at much higher speeds/impacts and walked away with a few scrathes, bruises and a damaged helmet!
So i wouldn't focus too much on the 12mph figure!

mac_man

I think what some people are missing is the types of injuries that occur at different speeds. A gashed head if you catch a rock at 5mph with no helmet, is quite different to the trauma your brain suffers impacting a cars bonnet at 20mph. In the latter instance the impact, despite wearing a helmet, is sufficient to damage your brain. the brain damage would occur regardless of wearing a helmet. At these sorts of speeds it's brain damage that's more serious. You would need a helmet with some kind of crumple zone that absorbed more of the initial impact. Motorcycle and F1 helmets are obvious examples of this.... anyone remember the name of theF1 guy that got walloped by a car (last year I think) and walked away pretty much unscathed. No chance of that happening with an MTB helmet.

DH helmets will absorb more impact and protect your face better than an XC lid. But a big hit to the head is a big hit to the head, no matter what helmet you wear.

bails87

I can speak from experience and say that car bonnets are actually pretty soft. It's the tarmac you're thrown onto that'll get you!

lostboysaint

Northwind wrote:

stubs wrote:

If theres a 1 % chance the helmet will stop me needing feeding through a tube for the rest of my life I will wear one.

OK, there isn't. I haven't a clue what the actual odds are, but I'm going to take a conservative stab at less than 1% of 1%. This sort of injury is massively rare.

But don't let that put you off, helmets aren't just for the brain damage cases, they're for the concussions and headaches and ruined rides etc too.

That.

My Giro Hex took a side impact from a farm road (tarmac covered with shite and flints) at 24.9mph (thanks Garmin) and I had no headaches, cut, damage or worse. If only I'd strapped a couple on my legs then perhaps I wouldn't have stitches in my calf at the moment.

Anonymous

Helmet arguments will go on and on. Fact is simple, there's never going to be any definite proof that a helmet saved your life unless you could go out and try again, recreate the exact same accident and conditions down to every mm and angle including the exact position of the body as it headed towards the ground. It's impossible to do.

All you can rely on is opinion and your own feelings and experience of helmet wear.

Me, maybe the helmet made a difference. Don't know for sure. Serious concussion and some less-serious haematoma stuff going on so they said. Without, who knows. X-ray dude who did the follow up on the broken back did reckon the helmet probably was the reason for the squashed vertebra (shockwave down the spine or something like that), but then that's just his opinion.

Still, I'm happier with being a few mm shorter in the spine than having my skull cracked open potentially.

Seen enough smashes with helmets now and we've had a few ambulance call outs on our rides and I'd rather be doing that for someone with a helmet than without.

theshrew

Last year i came off my bike just after a jump. TBH before this i always thought they looked a bit gay etc but wore one anyway.

I honestly can say the crash was faily heavy impact to my head - still cant remember what actually happend just remember waking up and my mate was laughing his t1ts off. Must of only been knocked out for a few seconds. Got up very shaken but managed to ride again just didnt bother with any more jumps that day. Helmet was only fit for the bin after it huge chunk and crack out of it.

Even with the skid lid on it feckin hurt my head but when i think what my head would of been like without it #alwaysprotectyamush

Northwind

mac man wrote:

A gashed head if you catch a rock at 5mph with no helmet, is quite different to the trauma your brain suffers impacting a cars bonnet at 20mph. In the latter instance the impact, despite wearing a helmet, is sufficient to damage your brain. the brain damage would occur regardless of wearing a helmet. u would need a helmet with some kind of crumple zone

A helmet IS a crumple zone, that's how they work. And they can reduce damage even in a serious impact like that, by reducing the decelerative force and the dwell time. You might still end up brain damaged, but there's a chance you'll end up less brain damaged- or a minor injury gets reduced to a concussion. Or a chance it makes no difference at all.

Unfortunately, they can't do an awful lot- and the EN standard sets a very low bar too. You'd hope that quality helmets exceed it, but you can't really know unfortunately (I'd be totally up for a change in the standards, if I hadn't seen what a complete mess they made of the new motorbike standards)

stubs

You hear lots of helmet wearers telling stories of crashing and getting up and walking away with a smashed, gouged and split helmet. Dont hear of many non helmet wearers getting up and walking away with a smashed, gouged and split head.

Personally I think its your head you can do what you want with it. I wear a helmet and I reckon its saved me a bad knock twice in the 8 years I have been wearing one and thats good enough for me too put up with a sweaty nut, havent got any hair so dont need to worry about my hairdo.

diy

here's a good article:
http://www.cyclistsdefencefund.org.uk/c ... cent-cases

The other consideration which is well proven on road traffic accidents is the difference between free traveling and impact speed. You could be trundling along at 20mph, but not actually hit the ground above 10mph, due to sliding, braking etc.

projectsome

bails87 wrote:

I can speak from experience and say that car bonnets are actually pretty soft. It's the tarmac you're thrown onto that'll get you!

+smashed car window.

robmanic1

Someone suggested to me recently that helmet wearing should be compulsory. I've always been dead against the idea, although I do wear one. It was only when he explained the reason behind the theory that I changed my mind.

He suggested that if it became law, bike thefts would reduce dramatically overnight. After all, what self respecting bike thief/ chav/ ned would be seen dead wearing one? And they're unlikely to carry one around whilst looking for a bike to steal.

It's a valid point.

Daz555

Robmanic1 wrote:

Someone suggested to me recently that helmet wearing should be compulsory. I've always been dead against the idea, although I do wear one. It was only when he explained the reason behind the theory that I changed my mind.

He suggested that if it became law, bike thefts would reduce dramatically overnight. After all, what self respecting bike thief/ chav/ ned would be seen dead wearing one? And they're unlikely to carry one around whilst looking for a bike to steal.

It's a valid point.

Because a bike thief is going to care that people see him without a helmet? Seriously? Also what are the odds of him stumbling accross plod right after nicking your bike? None.

Would make zero difference to bike theft.

robmanic1

Daz555 wrote:

Robmanic1 wrote:

Someone suggested to me recently that helmet wearing should be compulsory. I've always been dead against the idea, although I do wear one. It was only when he explained the reason behind the theory that I changed my mind.

He suggested that if it became law, bike thefts would reduce dramatically overnight. After all, what self respecting bike thief/ chav/ ned would be seen dead wearing one? And they're unlikely to carry one around whilst looking for a bike to steal.

It's a valid point.

Because a bike thief is going to care that people see him without a helmet? Seriously? Also what are the odds of him stumbling accross plod right after nicking your bike? None.

Not exactly, but if it's law there'd be (slightly) more chance of them being caught perhaps? Also gives plod the excuse to stop and question every baseball cap wearing, pavement cyclist they see (bracing myself for the "police don't stop pavement cyclists anyway" argument).

Would make zero difference to bike theft.

Ok, not fact, your opinion.

bails87

I don't want to wear a helmet when I potter along a bike path to buy a pint of milk from the shop 2/3 of a mile away. It's not dangerous!

I wear a helmet almost all the time (on the bike) but compulsion is a bad idea, IMO, and the theft thing makes no sense. A theif would either take ahelmet with them (the perfect way to avoid arousing suspicion) or they just wouldn't give a toss, after all, nicking bikes is illegal but it doesn't put them off, likewise with pavement riders.

The Rookie

One of my MTB group had a spill last week, front wheel dug in and he went over the bars onto paving, smashed the front of his helmet clean off, he had a headache and a stiff neck, nothing permanent, without a helmet he would certainly have had some severe grazing and bruising to his forhead and possibly a lot worse.

I use a Helmet on the MTB all the time, on the commuter going to work all the time, not when going 600yards, mostly on paths, to the local shop though, risk assessment.....

Simon

robmanic1

bails87 wrote:

I don't want to wear a helmet when I potter along a bike path to buy a pint of milk from the shop 2/3 of a mile away. It's not dangerous!

I wear a helmet almost all the time (on the bike) but compulsion is a bad idea, IMO, and the theft thing makes no sense. A theif would either take ahelmet with them (the perfect way to avoid arousing suspicion) or they just wouldn't give a toss, after all, nicking bikes is illegal but it doesn't put them off, likewise with pavement riders.

Fair point, I just like the idea if seeing chavs riding around in badly fitted helmets