Ritchey Torque Key - 5Nm really that much force?
I bought a ritchey torque key so I wouldn't over tighten components on my new carbon bike. However I've been very surprised just how much force it takes to make the torque key click. To make it click I need to take a really good hold of it with my hand (finger and thumb can't apply enough force alone) and really twist it. So far I haven't dared get anywhere near this point on any bolts on my bike, despite some being rated upto 9Nm. The only bolts I've felt comfortable setting this high are the cleats on my shoes.
Should it really require this much force? Is it possible I have a duff key?
Should it really require this much force? Is it possible I have a duff key?
0
Comments
-
Because of the design of the Torque key you get very little leverage.This makes the perceived effort seem greater.
Try repeating it again with a full sized torque wrench & you may be left thinking " that does not feel very tight ".
Hope that helps to explain it.0 -
key could be duff i suppose, but it will feel hard to turn because of the small handle width doesnt give much leverage so feels hard on the fingers. its not like leaning on a ratchet with your soft palm. btw i dont go that high either on the bars, stem and derailer seat clamp because it seems sufficient and i havent had anything move. its just good to know im not over the max limit. dont forget thats the maximum and not necessarily whats required.sonds like youve some sense and done good. if your not sure just go steady riding for a bit and increase your man handling steadily to check all is ok. maybe check now and again, things can settle a bit when new and slacken a small amout.0
-
when i had my bike fit andy at bikescience used one of these and he used hand and thumb but it didnt look like a lot of efforti need more bikes0
-
I have a torque wrench - but I use it only to stop over tightening and go by feel most of the time - stuff like seat posts only need to be tight enough not to move, not at regulation max anywayhttp://veloviewer.com/SigImage.php?a=3370a&r=3&c=5&u=M&g=p&f=abcdefghij&z=a.png
Wiliers: Cento Uno/Superleggera R and Zero 7. Bianchi Infinito CV and Oltre XR20 -
I did my carbon seat post up with one of these the other week and I was also surprised at just how tight it felt.
The seat post clamp is recommended to 5Nm and the actual seat post to 6Nm.
Do you guys think I should go and back it off a bit? I also used a little carbon paste.2019 Ribble CGR SL
2015 Specialized Roubaix Sport sl4
2014 Specialized Allez Sport0 -
andy46 wrote:I did my carbon seat post up with one of these the other week and I was also surprised at just how tight it felt.
The seat post clamp is recommended to 5Nm and the actual seat post to 6Nm.
Do you guys think I should go and back it off a bit? I also used a little carbon paste.
Probably not... I had an issue with my my seatpost (carbon) slipping....a mechanical engineer with 'engineering' feel promptly lightened it up with some of his 'force'.... not a problem since.. it hasnt self destructed or anything.
Tougher than you think.0 -
Do all my bars, stems and seatposts with the Ritchey Torque Key. Doesn't seem to take much effort to me.
Also do you know that by gently heating the end (e.g. in some hot water) you can soften the glue and remove the bit so that you can use different sized hex bits in it?More problems but still living....0 -
5Nm is nothing - apply away. As above, its all about leverage - if you use a torque wrench you'll achieve 5Nm with no effort at all.
Also as above - the max is what it is - the max. If it says "max 6Nm" when whack it to 5Nm - it'll be fine.0 -
Is it not time us consumers stop buying products that fall apart if a screw is over-tightened by half a turn?
Is the benefit of saving half a pound really worth all this hassle and constant worrying? Every single day I read a new thread of somebody who has a cracked frame for a reason or another
Torque wrenches used to be a tool used in aircraft industry and on the engine assembly line... do we really want them to be mainstream in the bicycle industry?
I keep riding bikes that don't need to be torqued and still not see the drawback of this ancient system over the one pound lighter state of the art...left the forum March 20230 -
Horses for courses though ugo.santalucia.
I would not take a time trial bike on a downhill MTB course or expect to win a time trial on a 1960's touring bike (lovely as some of them are in appearance).
The engine is of course the most important part of the equation but, equipment can make a lot of difference.
Nobody in cycling needs to feel left out as the beauty of it is, there is a type of bike to suit all types of riding. Some types are more high maintenance but that theory also applys to the oldest form of four legged transport.0 -
This thread nicely illustrates what I've said a few times on here, you don't need a torque wrench for a bicycle, in fact you could be doing more harm than just going by educated feel.
http://james-p-smith.blogspot.com/2011/ ... ycles.html0 -
Sorry, bad post0
-
chrisw12 wrote:This thread nicely illustrates what I've said a few times on here, you don't need a torque wrench for a bicycle, in fact you could be doing more harm than just going by educated feel.
Really? Care to expand on that? When you are torquing a bolt onto a carbon fibre component does it not make sense that any excess torque will lead to crushing of aforementioned component?
Care to explain what use educated feel is to a non mechanical engineer who is unlikely to be familiar with the equation M=Fd where M is the moment/turning force/ " torque " F is the force required in Newtons & d is the distance or length of the lever in metres?
How do you propose people become educated to this feel or is everybody born with some sort of inherent genetic ability to automatically recognise by intution the effect of different lever lengths on the force required in order to produce the correct torque.0 -
oldraver wrote:chrisw12 wrote:This thread nicely illustrates what I've said a few times on here, you don't need a torque wrench for a bicycle, in fact you could be doing more harm than just going by educated feel.
Really? Care to expand on that? When you are torquing a bolt onto a carbon fibre component does it not make sense that any excess torque will lead to crushing of aforementioned component?
Care to explain what use educated feel is to a non mechanical engineer who is unlikely to be familiar with the equation M=Fd where M is the moment/turning force/ " torque " F is the force required in Newtons & d is the distance or length of the lever in metres?
How do you propose people become educated to this feel or is everybody born with some sort of inherent genetic ability to automatically recognise by intution the effect of different lever lengths on the force required in order to produce the correct torque.
Please read the link I provided very carefully, it really does explain it all very well I think..0 -
No worrys yep read the link & I do understand the variables involved.
The variables involved are indeed the issue here eg dry threads vs lubed ones etc, degree of contamination but, a base needs to be set for joe public. This is done by manuals setting a range of torque values.
Feel is only something that can come with experience in the mean time if it goes wrong & you have met the torque values specified then at least you have a valid warranty claim ;-)0 -
i dont underdtand whats hard about tightening slowly and periodically grabbing the part and swinging on it like your in a 100m sprint. if it slips giy it some more.0
-
Some people are not very energetic when it comes to a 100m sprint so, that just introduces another variable.
I do know where you are coming from though0 -
So I got my girlfriend to try the torque key on one of my cleat bolts (which are very tight), and she doesn't have the physical strength to make the key 'click'. Okay she IS a girl, but that gives you an idea just how much force is required.I'm going to try and borrow a torque wrench or something as I'm still not convinced it's working correctly.0
-
You are absolutely correct!
Supposing you had a 1metre lever then a force of 5 Newtons is required to achieve a 5Nm torque.
If your lever however happened to be about 5 cm in length then, you are correct the required force would be 100 Newtons to achieve a 5Nm torque.
Amazing what leverage can achieve is it not!0 -
You don't need to get anything, you don't need a torque wrench, just read rakes post over and over and do exactly as it says, it's probably the best advice ever given on here.
(reply to bus_ter)0 -
From amaferanga » Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:11 pm
"Also do you know that by gently heating the end (e.g. in some hot water) you can soften the glue and remove the bit so that you can use different sized hex bits in it?"
Has anyone else tried this, and does it work?
The latest version of this tool has interchangeable bits, but I've got the old version.
Thx.0 -
graemew wrote:From amaferanga » Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:11 pm
"Also do you know that by gently heating the end (e.g. in some hot water) you can soften the glue and remove the bit so that you can use different sized hex bits in it?"
Has anyone else tried this, and does it work?
The latest version of this tool has interchangeable bits, but I've got the old version.
Thx.
It works. All you need is some boiling water.More problems but still living....0
