Advice on reporting dangerous driving...

nameinuse

I'd be really grateful for some advice after a scary incident with a plumber's van this morning on Goldsmid Road and Chatham Place in Brighton at about nine this morning. I've already submitted it to Operation Crackdown, and to save further explanation here's what I wrote:

"I was commuting to work by bike. The first I was aware of this vehicle is whilst I was riding up Goldsmid Road, towards the Seven Dials. I was riding as close as is safe from the row of parked cars The nose of the vehicle came alongside, around 2ft from my shoulder, then swerved closer, forcing me to take evasive action. The driver then drove off over the roundabout.

Unfortunately as I was filtering past the queue of traffic on Chatham Place, the vehicle was there. The driver wound down their window and shouted that I should get over and was "in the middle of the road". I continued to filter, and when the light changed continued under the railway bridge. The driver drove aggressively close in the queue of traffic, and revved his engine.

By this point I was sufficiently shaken to want to report the incident. I pulled over to note the details down on my phone before continuing my journey. I think the driver of the van saw me do this as he started driving his van towards me whilst I was on the pavement. I took a couple of photos whilst this was happening, then the driver got out of his van, demanded my phone (which I did not give him) and continued to remonstrate with me about my riding. His comments included issues around his objection to my road position, my hi-viz jacket and my use of lights at the time. He got in his van telling me to "F--- Off".

I continued to filter past traffic to put as much distance between the vehicle and myself as possible. However, as the driver overtook Northbound on the Lewes Road he used his horn as he passed, though his driving was not physically threatening."

I'd also like to report the van's driver, R661 AGC, a white VW Caddy with the livery of Mid Sussex Plumbing LTD to their company, however having looked at the website it seems like it's only two people, so it'd probably just get me more abuse. What do you think? I'd like to send the pictures of him driving his van at me to /someone/, if nothing else to make me feel better. Do Check A Trade deal with stuff like this, or just workmanship?

Also, in related news, I'm just about to get a Contour Roam - does that sound like a sensible helmetcam choice?

Cheers!

Kieran_Burns

Contour Roam - Yes. GPS version of my Contour 1080P (see my vids for evidence of quality)

Go to your local police station and fill in the form, add any evidence (photos or CD with original images) and leave it to the Police

I did and things did happen (not quickly but it did happen) - look for the now infamous "Get off the phone you daft tart" shout freely available on youtube.

nameinuse

Great thanks - I did actually report a previous van driver to the police a couple of years ago, after he got out his van and shoved me whilst I was waiting at a junction (what is it with me and vans?) but that came to nothing. No witnesses and no evidence, I guess, though hopefully the camera will help with that in future. Not sure if this incident is better or worse really!

It's so frustrating that if you ride how you need to be safe (out of the door zone, sometimes in primary) a handful of idiots get so angry they put you at risk.

neiltb

http://www.midsussexplumbing.co.uk/inde ... e&Itemid=1

is this them? Send them a note from the contact page

willy b

I get in touch with the police & the local paper, sending the above and pictures.

Local paper might take an interest.

Failing that the whole of BR could send them a message asking them to please drive with more care.

sfichele

If you are sure that's him. Then I'll send an email

nameinuse

I think that's the site, yes, the numbers and logo match what's on the site (in the last picture). I had a look round it and given that the two addresses it gives are domestic, I think there's a very high chance I'd be emailing the person who was driving, and I really don't want to aggravate the situation by giving away any of my personal details. It's very kind to offer contacting them but I don't want any of you putting yourselves at risk with this person either. The local paper is pretty anti-cyclist, so maybe they'd print my story for balance!

Here's some flick-book style footage (Picture 3 is a blurred shot of the road and curb. Apparently I fail at jumping out of the way and using a camera at the same time) -

Koncordski

Definitely report to the police. It would be a shame if his mobile number accidentally got into the public realm, that could cause all sorts of mischief.

nameinuse

I've bitten the bullet and ordered a Contour Roam now, so at least I get a new toy to play with...

It does make you wonder about people who drive like that in vehicles with their name and contact detailed plastered all over them. It's not great advertising, is it? The really terrifying thing is he thought he was right (it was more dangerous righteous indignation than "rage", as such, though it makes little difference when you're being driven at), and that it was appropriate behaviour to try and "correct" my cycling.

Equally worrying is he may have been a cyclist at some point as he referred to my "SPDs" as "illegal", along with my LED lights. Obviously he's wrong on both counts (SPDs with orange reflectors and Cateye/Exposure lights, fully legal since the law change), but that's pretty detailed knowledge. I suppose the other alternative is that he regularly picks fights with cyclists and has learned a bit along the way...

I've reported it to Operation Crackdown (Sussex police's antisocial driving scheme, like Roadsafe), and the usual procedure is they send a letter saying it's the first report and they're not doing anything this time but the complaint is on file. If I had cam footage or a witness I might make a complaint at the police station, but I'm not sure I've really got sufficient for it to be worthwhile. As I'm writing this I wonder if the photos tip the balance towards a proper report...

davis

I'd say that clearly shows him driving at you. The first photo shows his front wheels clearly turned towards you, and then he mounts the curb. Worth making a stink over!

Hmmm. He lives around 10 miles away from me...

Edit: In fact... http://www.checkatrade.com/Contact/ and complain (over the phone)?

Greg T

The middle photo of the van half on the pavement being driven at you is a bit shaky.

bails87

That's not bad driving, but something more serious, surely?

The CPS wrote:

An offence of Common Assault is committed when a person either assaults another person or commits a battery.

An assault is committed when a person intentionally or recklessly causes another to apprehend the immediate infliction of unlawful force.

Common aggravating factors:
Factors indicating higher culpability:
1. Use of a weapon to frighten or harm the victim
2. Offence was planned or sustained

Factors indicating a more than usually serious degree of harm:

9. Victim is particularly vulnerable

I can't see how deliberately driving a car onto the pavement, causing someone to have to jump out of the way is 'just' antisocial driving.

Kieran_Burns

I would be down the police station with that lot and making a complaint of assault if it was me.

Aidy

In my experience it's not worth reporting it to the police, they won't do anything.
Pretty much given up hope with them.

I was knocked off my bike and then assaulted sometime last year.
Police politely listened, and got the driver in for a chat.

Then they basically told me that if I continued to make a nuisance of myself they'd be after me for breach of the public order because I had the audacity to shout back at the driver.

nameinuse

Thanks for the support everyone, I'll head to the station tomorrow with a print-out of the shots and the originals on a CD - fingers crossed some good will come of the whole thing.

Aidy - Your experience sounds awful, sorry to hear that. I don't really expect a conviction based on what I've giving them, I'll be going on the basis that if the driver has already made a habit of it they'll do more than just visit. The optimistic part of me thinks that at least a visit from the police means that people are aware that their actions aren't without repercussions.

Ginjafro

Good Luck! Hope you nail the scumbag.

willy b

Hope the police do something for you. I can't see the pictures, but sounds like you have a case!

I totally agree with you about the mentality of people driving like that with their business/name on the car/van. One of the pool cars at work has the logo on the rear quarter, Whenever I have to drive that, I drive like a saint

phy2sll2

Just keep calling them out to fake addresses.

nameinuse

Right, all reported, the desk officer wanted to do it all through Op Crackdown as he thought that was most likely to get somewhere - they can go from letters of advice to full on prosecution, apparently. I've handed over all my pictures, left my contact details, so will wait and see...

Actually quite concerned that I might see the van driver again as there are limited routes through Brighton I can use to commute. I suppose if there's any further nastiness at least it'll be recorded! Wish I'd spotted the driver in the traffic queue and stayed back so he didn't have the opportunity the second/third time, but that's really a job for Captain Hindsight.

Wallace1492

Aidy wrote:

In my experience it's not worth reporting it to the police, they won't do anything.
Pretty much given up hope with them.

I was knocked off my bike and then assaulted sometime last year.
Police politely listened, and got the driver in for a chat.

Then they basically told me that if I continued to make a nuisance of myself they'd be after me for breach of the public order because I had the audacity to shout back at the driver.

That does not sound good. However, the Police must have had grounds for telling you this, if not I for one would be taking it much, much further.

W1

nameinuse wrote:

Right, all reported, the desk officer wanted to do it all through Op Crackdown as he thought that was most likely to get somewhere - they can go from letters of advice to full on prosecution, apparently. I've handed over all my pictures, left my contact details, so will wait and see...

Actually quite concerned that I might see the van driver again as there are limited routes through Brighton I can use to commute. I suppose if there's any further nastiness at least it'll be recorded! Wish I'd spotted the driver in the traffic queue and stayed back so he didn't have the opportunity the second/third time, but that's really a job for Captain Hindsight.

Take a look at the company on here:
http://levelbusiness.com/doc/company

If it is a small company the directors may well be the only "employees". You may be able to determine which one you saw, and if you see him again he might get a bit of a shock if you call him by name...

shearno

Driving at someone like that is attempted murder, this person should be arressted and charged. I have been a lurker on here for quite some time and this has made my blood boil and join up to comment.
If the police do not take it seriously, then what about the proffesional bodies, surely they would not want a van with their logo representing them, driving like that.
The Chartered Institute of Plumbing & Heating Engineering has six codes of conduct
http://www.ciphe.org.uk/Consumers/Code-of-Professional-Standards/
by attempting to run you over and kill you he has broken rules 2 & 5, complain to them, complain to all of them

Aidy

Wallace1492 wrote:

Aidy wrote:

In my experience it's not worth reporting it to the police, they won't do anything.
Pretty much given up hope with them.

I was knocked off my bike and then assaulted sometime last year.
Police politely listened, and got the driver in for a chat.

Then they basically told me that if I continued to make a nuisance of myself they'd be after me for breach of the public order because I had the audacity to shout back at the driver.

That does not sound good. However, the Police must have had grounds for telling you this, if not I for one would be taking it much, much further.

I assume that following up the issue was just a little bit too much like real work.

shearno

The Chartered Institute of Plumbing & Heating Engineering has six codes of conduct two of which are clearly broken here

2. Safeguard the environment and public health and safety
Take all reasonable care to avoid damaging the environment or creating any danger of death, injury or ill-health to any person or damage to property.

5. Uphold the dignity, standing and reputation of the Institute and the plumbing mechanical engineering services industry
Act professionally and adopt a form of behaviour and appearance that will not cause offence or embarrassment to others. To maintain the Institute’s good name and that of the industry generally, members in the course of their work are expected to act professionally and adopt a form of behaviour and appearance that will not cause offence or embarrassment to others.

Get him kicked out, hit him financially, I would if someone tried to run me over complain to maxiner@ciphe.org.uk

nameinuse

That's really useful information, thanks - If I'm honest I think the crime is probably closest to assault with a deadly weapon. There seems to me to be quite a similarity between knives and cars; lots of perfectly legal uses and users, a few dangerous people using them to hurt and intimidate people. However, I seem to recall they changed the law so any crime involving knives carried a mandatory prison term, so clearly the courts don't agree...

I think it'd be best to wait and see if the police do anything first; I don't want to second-guess their work or prejudice the outcome. After that process is complete I'll definitely do my civic duty and let the trade association know what one of their members has been up to!

bails87

nameinuse wrote:

the crime is probably closest to assault with a deadly weapon.

There's no such thing, not in this country anyway.