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no matter how hard i ride

SUPERSUTTSUPERSUTT Posts: 292
edited February 2012 in Health, fitness & training
hi im stuck between a rock and a hard place, my problem is no matter how hard i train and how carefull i watch what i eat when not riding trying to keep my calorie count down to try and lose weight ( to many xmas puds) and get fitter faster and ride for longer it doesnt seem to be happening for me im going out every tuesday,thursday night for 3 hours or so and out for a few hours on a sunday and monday changing my routes for some up hill down hill and sprinting.resting every wednesday and friday. cos i work nights i try and keep my meals to a regular time as poss thats getting home around 8am and having a small bowl ceral(cornflakes or shreddedwheat something along that line)then off to bed ,waking around 4.30pm having a meal with the family pasta,fish, rice chicken and the wife makes agreat stew with loads of veg but i cant lose any weight im 12 stone 8 pounds and 5' 10" tall. two years ago i was 11 stone 5 pounds and seem alot fitter then than now whats going on i hope turning 40 isnt the answer lol
falling off doesn't hurt....its the landing that hurts


FS Giant Trance X3 (2013)
FS Specialized Camber 2011 (2011)=(stolen)
HT Merlin Malt one (sold)
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Posts

  • RiggaRigga Posts: 939
    Your fat maybe turning to muscle. Muscle weighs more than fat, are you more toned?
  • SUPERSUTTSUPERSUTT Posts: 292
    no its seems to be building up around my waist my 34inch jeans was loose now getting a little tight now
    falling off doesn't hurt....its the landing that hurts


    FS Giant Trance X3 (2013)
    FS Specialized Camber 2011 (2011)=(stolen)
    HT Merlin Malt one (sold)
  • d00md00m Posts: 160
    Reduce portion size, increase the intensity of your riding a little, but with time to recover.
  • gezebogezebo Posts: 364
    Working nights makes it difficult due to routine but it sounds like you've got one which is great.
    I'm no expert on it but maybe read a book about food types/combos, look at portion size and also consider a heart rate monitor as these can help focus training.
    Myself- I don't do any of the above and just ride for fun and fitness. Getting obsessed about your weight is never healthy unless you're 50 stone. Maybe concentrate on personal bests for different routes as a way to measure yourself?

    And most importantly have fun!
  • EyonEyon Posts: 623
    Rigga wrote:
    Your fat maybe turning to muscle. Muscle weighs more than fat, are you more toned?

    This was proven a few years back to be false. Fat cannot convert to muscle.

    I am in a very similar situation as you, I really struggle to shed weight. What I've found works wonders (for me, and I'm not saying this works for everyone), is to cut a lot of carbs out of my diet, especially highly processed ones. I mean chocolate, sweets, biscuits (that killed me), cake etc, and replace with fruit and nuts and other boring food which soon starts to taste great! It's hard at first but eventually becomes second nature. Its OK though, you end up seeking out good for you foods which taste great and it just becomes easier.

    I've since returned to the gym, put on a LOT of bulk (which weighs more than fat), but have reduced my weight by 2.5kg. OK its not loads, if you consider my waistline from now to only a few months back its a great improvement.

    I tried the calorie counting thing, logging everything I ate, keeping it sub 1800kcal, but it just didn't work for me. Now I just eat sensible, cut carbs, any I have to eat are included in brown pasta or fruits, and it works! Don't starve carbs on ride days, you need that energy, but at the same time, dont load up with bars and gels for a 30 min ride, use that to burn it off.

    Keep trying, its not an over night thing, but it will work!
  • DCR00DCR00 Posts: 2,160
    its hard to comment on this until we can see what you are eating

    do you drink alcohol ?

    its doubtful that you are packing on any significant muscle from riding alone

    as said above, fat doesnt turn into muscle, but if you are training for increased muscle mass and eating a well balanced, high protein diet, you could be building muscle and shedding fat at the same time, therefore putting weight on, despite losing fat

    to be honest mate, 12 stone for that height doesnt sound overweight at all.

    i suspect your diet isnt as good as you think it is. 9 times out of 10, your diet is too blame for poor results.
  • 1mancity21mancity2 Posts: 2,355
    Your not really over weight Im 5ft 11in and weight 81kilos (12.7stone), its hard to loose it around the waist line but try some side bends with weights etc off the bike, I have found that as you become more toned in your legs, shoulders, arms your waist dosn't imrove.

    Try riding out of the saddle more, this works your stomach muscles more than sitting also get a heart monitor, this improves your input as your constantly trying to keep your training as high as possible, that little beep keeps you pushing hard.

    On the diet front avoid beer and cider im not saying go t total but try cutting down if you drink a lot, food wise just watch the fat intake.
    Finished, Check out my custom Giant Reign 2010
    Dirt Jumper Dmr Sidekick2
  • 1mancity21mancity2 Posts: 2,355
    Eyon wrote:
    Rigga wrote:
    Your fat maybe turning to muscle. Muscle weighs more than fat, are you more toned?

    This was proven a few years back to be false. Fat cannot convert to muscle.

    This is true, you think its turning into muscle because your loosing weight and toning at the same time, you burn fat which in turn gives you energy to feed muscle growth.
    Finished, Check out my custom Giant Reign 2010
    Dirt Jumper Dmr Sidekick2
  • styxdstyxd Posts: 3,234
    Pretty straight forward really. Stop eating shite like pasta, rice, bread, cereal, crisps.

    Just eat veg, fruit, pulses, legumes and meat.

    Buy a road bike and hammer the miles on that aswell (if you can be arsed)
  • Sounds definitely like more of a problem of too many carbs, and at the wrong times. Generaly try to avoid carbs within a few hours of going to sleep, and don't over-eat, and reduce portion sizes. Snacking, while it does help control hunger, can often lead to excess calories very fast, especially if you have decent sized meals.

    If you drink alcohol, I would recommend stopping for a few months until you get the belly down to the size you want. I've had the same problems, and i've drastically my beer consumption, and that seems to be helping a bit.
  • SUPERSUTTSUPERSUTT Posts: 292
    DCR00 wrote:
    its hard to comment on this until we can see what you are eating

    do you drink alcohol ?

    its doubtful that you are packing on any significant muscle from riding alone

    as said above, fat doesnt turn into muscle, but if you are training for increased muscle mass and eating a well balanced, high protein diet, you could be building muscle and shedding fat at the same time, therefore putting weight on, despite losing fat

    to be honest mate, 12 stone for that height doesnt sound overweight at all.

    i suspect your diet isnt as good as you think it is. 9 times out of 10, your diet is too blame for poor results.
    if i do drink its only one or two glasses of red wine or a couple of jack daniels and coke on a saturday night
    falling off doesn't hurt....its the landing that hurts


    FS Giant Trance X3 (2013)
    FS Specialized Camber 2011 (2011)=(stolen)
    HT Merlin Malt one (sold)
  • SUPERSUTTSUPERSUTT Posts: 292
    some good sound advise many thanks for your input everyone.i just need to look at what im eating,i do drink alot of coffee at work with sugar it helps me concertrate being a supervisor in a team of six against 70 angery staff and contractors is mind boggilng at times

    i have been drinking alot last month xmas and had two or three partys to attend this month
    falling off doesn't hurt....its the landing that hurts


    FS Giant Trance X3 (2013)
    FS Specialized Camber 2011 (2011)=(stolen)
    HT Merlin Malt one (sold)
  • t.m.h.n.e.tt.m.h.n.e.t Posts: 2,265
    Rigga wrote:
    Muscle weighs more than fat, are you more toned?

    No it doesn't.

    XA7p5.jpg
    styxd wrote:
    Pretty straight forward really. Stop eating shite like pasta, rice, bread, cereal, crisps.

    Just eat veg, fruit, pulses, legumes and meat.

    Buy a road bike and hammer the miles on that aswell (if you can be arsed)
    Ignore this entirely
    d00m wrote:
    Reduce portion size, increase the intensity of your riding a little, but with time to recover.
    If anything and at a rough guess. The OP isn't eating enough
  • styxdstyxd Posts: 3,234
    Ignore this entirely

    Whys that? It works well for me (although I do eat everything else aswell, just not to much of it)
  • t.m.h.n.e.tt.m.h.n.e.t Posts: 2,265
    styxd wrote:
    Ignore this entirely

    Whys that? It works well for me (although I do eat everything else aswell, just not to much of it)
    Why would an active cyclist cut carbs? Especially low GI in the form of pastas/rices/bread/cereals
  • styxdstyxd Posts: 3,234
    Theres plenty of carbs in my diet, just not to many of the shite ones.

    The best way to lose weight is to eat properly, not eat loads of shite carbs and then try and ride it off.
  • t.m.h.n.e.tt.m.h.n.e.t Posts: 2,265
    styxd wrote:
    Theres plenty of carbs in my diet, just not to many of the shite ones.

    The best way to lose weight is to eat properly, not eat loads of shite carbs and then try and ride it off.
    Rice pasta and whole cereals aren't shite carbs.
  • angry_birdangry_bird Posts: 3,785
    edited January 2012
    Very hard to say, you're an individual, your metabolic needs will be different from everyone elses, cliche but true. From what I can remember, bearing in mind I hate nutrition as it's censored complicated:

    Fat in the body comes from 2 main sources. Dietary fat and glucose being converted to fat. Simply put you want to avoid is depositing more fat than you metabolise.

    Complex carbs such as those found in cereals, rice, pasta as long as you don't eat them in excess won't do you much harm and will give you the energy you need. They take time to be metabolised to glucose which gives your body time to process it and do with it what needs to be done.

    Sugars found in sweets, chocolate and some fruits will end up with a fair % being converted to fatty acids (irreversible) and stored as fats. There's only so much glucose the liver can handle and convert to glycogen, some glucose will be absorbed by fat and muscle cells, the rest will be converted to fat.

    Proteins- only around 20% of dietary protein is ever going to get into your blood and to your muscle cells, most will end up in the liver. Here most amino acids (the building blocks of proteins) are converted to carbohydrates- they will then either be used for storage as glycogen or turned into glucose and then into fatty acids. If you're eating loads of carbs and a lot of protein then expect to deposit some fat.

    Dietary fat is inevitable and still an important part of the diet, it should be kept to relatively low levels though.

    Adjust your diet so there's still a little fat in there, cut out the junk carbs such as chocolate and sweets, eat pasta/rice/cereals BUT not to excess and keep up eating protein too but don't take the view point that all the protein you eat is being converted to muscle. It's not, and although you're doing a fair amount of exercise at the moment it's not a massive amount, your body won't cope well with lots of protein.

    It's important that you don't eat too little either, you still need to provide your body with the energy it needs, eat too little and after a few weeks you may see that you start to burn off your fat as your body needs the energy from it to fuel you, but eventually you'll either reach the point where your body fat is getting too depleted or you'll see you've lost weight, go back to your normal diet and your body will put the fat straight back on.

    Sorry I say "excess" and "relatively low"- it's vague but everyone's different, I don't know what your diet and intake is like, but you do know what sort of diet you eat and what you've eaten in the past. Just think over what it is exactly you're eating and what your body will be doing with it, then decide how you can best make it a diet balanced to your needs.

    Edit. Just had a thought but trying to work out if it's logical or not, possibly won't be as it's early in the morning and I'm sleepy still, I'll ponder it today and see if it amounts to anything.
  • DCR00DCR00 Posts: 2,160
    SUPERSUTT wrote:
    some good sound advise many thanks for your input everyone.i just need to look at what im eating,i do drink alot of coffee at work with sugar it helps me concertrate being a supervisor in a team of six against 70 angery staff and contractors is mind boggilng at times

    i have been drinking alot last month xmas and had two or three partys to attend this month

    ditch the sugar, bad for your teeth and wont be helping the fat loss

    also cut down on the caffiene as it makes you retain water

    IMO we rely too much on caffiene. With a decent diet, in particular a good breakfast, there should be no need for caffeine to get you/keep you going. I used to drink litres of tea during the day, but over time have cut down to one cup with my breakfast. I dont feel any different, apart from less wired at the end of the day.
  • Angry Bird wrote:
    Very hard to say, you're an individual, your metabolic needs will be different from everyone elses, cliche but true. From what I can remember, bearing in mind I hate nutrition as it's ******* complicated:

    Fat in the body comes from 2 main sources. Dietary fat and glucose being converted to fat. Simply put you want to avoid is depositing more fat than you metabolise.

    Complex carbs such as those found in cereals, rice, pasta as long as you don't eat them in excess won't do you much harm and will give you the energy you need. They take time to be metabolised to glucose which gives your body time to process it and do with it what needs to be done.

    Sugars found in sweets, chocolate and some fruits will end up with a fair % being converted to fatty acids (irreversible) and stored as fats. There's only so much glucose the liver can handle and convert to glycogen, some glucose will be absorbed by fat and muscle cells, the rest will be converted to fat.

    Proteins- only around 20% of dietary protein is ever going to get into your blood and to your muscle cells, most will end up in the liver. Here most amino acids (the building blocks of proteins) are converted to carbohydrates- they will then either be used for storage as glycogen or turned into glucose and then into fatty acids. If you're eating loads of carbs and a lot of protein then expect to deposit some fat.

    Dietary fat is inevitable and still an important part of the diet, it should be kept to relatively low levels though.

    Adjust your diet so there's still a little fat in there, cut out the junk carbs such as chocolate and sweets, eat pasta/rice/cereals BUT not to excess and keep up eating protein too but don't take the view point that all the protein you eat is being converted to muscle. It's not, and although you're doing a fair amount of exercise at the moment it's not a massive amount, your body won't cope well with lots of protein.

    It's important that you don't eat too little either, you still need to provide your body with the energy it needs, eat too little and after a few weeks you may see that you start to burn off your fat as your body needs the energy from it to fuel you, but eventually you'll either reach the point where your body fat is getting too depleted or you'll see you've lost weight, go back to your normal diet and your body will put the fat straight back on.

    Sorry I say "excess" and "relatively low"- it's vague but everyone's different, I don't know what your diet and intake is like, but you do know what sort of diet you eat and what you've eaten in the past. Just think over what it is exactly you're eating and what your body will be doing with it, then decide how you can best make it a diet balanced to your needs.

    Edit. Just had a thought but trying to work out if it's logical or not, possibly won't be as it's early in the morning and I'm sleepy still, I'll ponder it today and see if it amounts to anything.

    +1 Quality post, this is all reasonable and makes sense to me. Weight loss is not easy but if you take the few simple rules out of this, you SHOULD be getting somewhere.
    Current bike: 2014 Kinesis Racelight T2 - built by my good self!
  • t.m.h.n.e.tt.m.h.n.e.t Posts: 2,265
    Angry Bird wrote:
    Very hard to say, you're an individual, your metabolic needs will be different from everyone elses, cliche but true. From what I can remember, bearing in mind I hate nutrition as it's ******* complicated:

    Fat in the body comes from 2 main sources. Dietary fat and glucose being converted to fat. Simply put you want to avoid is depositing more fat than you metabolise.

    Complex carbs such as those found in cereals, rice, pasta as long as you don't eat them in excess won't do you much harm and will give you the energy you need. They take time to be metabolised to glucose which gives your body time to process it and do with it what needs to be done.

    Sugars found in sweets, chocolate and some fruits will end up with a fair % being converted to fatty acids (irreversible) and stored as fats. There's only so much glucose the liver can handle and convert to glycogen, some glucose will be absorbed by fat and muscle cells, the rest will be converted to fat.

    Proteins- only around 20% of dietary protein is ever going to get into your blood and to your muscle cells, most will end up in the liver. Here most amino acids (the building blocks of proteins) are converted to carbohydrates- they will then either be used for storage as glycogen or turned into glucose and then into fatty acids. If you're eating loads of carbs and a lot of protein then expect to deposit some fat.

    Dietary fat is inevitable and still an important part of the diet, it should be kept to relatively low levels though.

    Adjust your diet so there's still a little fat in there, cut out the junk carbs such as chocolate and sweets, eat pasta/rice/cereals BUT not to excess and keep up eating protein too but don't take the view point that all the protein you eat is being converted to muscle. It's not, and although you're doing a fair amount of exercise at the moment it's not a massive amount, your body won't cope well with lots of protein.

    It's important that you don't eat too little either, you still need to provide your body with the energy it needs, eat too little and after a few weeks you may see that you start to burn off your fat as your body needs the energy from it to fuel you, but eventually you'll either reach the point where your body fat is getting too depleted or you'll see you've lost weight, go back to your normal diet and your body will put the fat straight back on.

    Sorry I say "excess" and "relatively low"- it's vague but everyone's different, I don't know what your diet and intake is like, but you do know what sort of diet you eat and what you've eaten in the past. Just think over what it is exactly you're eating and what your body will be doing with it, then decide how you can best make it a diet balanced to your needs.

    Edit. Just had a thought but trying to work out if it's logical or not, possibly won't be as it's early in the morning and I'm sleepy still, I'll ponder it today and see if it amounts to anything.

    +1 Quality post, this is all reasonable and makes sense to me. Weight loss is not easy but if you take the few simple rules out of this, you SHOULD be getting somewhere.
    +2
  • SUPERSUTTSUPERSUTT Posts: 292
    why thank you Angrybird it allseems to make sence of whay you said i was once told food is just fuel for the body you only need to eat what you need to get you throught the day the hard part now is working out what to eat how much and the best time
    falling off doesn't hurt....its the landing that hurts


    FS Giant Trance X3 (2013)
    FS Specialized Camber 2011 (2011)=(stolen)
    HT Merlin Malt one (sold)
  • Rigga wrote:
    Muscle weighs more than fat, are you more toned?

    No it doesn't.

    XA7p5.jpg

    Well quite clearly it does. Comparing 5lbs of both of course they are going to weigh the same, look at the volume though, if that portion of fat was reduced to the size of the 5lbs of muscle, then it's going to weigh less isn't it....

    Unless that post was meant to be a funny in which case, disregard this entirely.
    MmmBop

    Go big or go home.
  • t.m.h.n.e.tt.m.h.n.e.t Posts: 2,265
    Well quite clearly it does
    No
    Comparing 5lbs of both of course they are going to weigh the same, look at the volume though, if that portion of fat was reduced to the size of the 5lbs of muscle, then it's going to weigh less isn't it....

    Unless that post was meant to be a funny in which case, disregard this entirely.
    Oh dear. Yes,reduce the volume of fat to the size of 5lbs of muscle,it can't do anything but weigh less. The point made above was that muscle is inherently heavier,it isn't until you change the volume at which point the direct lb - lb comparison is lost as is anything else meaningful.

    I don't recall anything in the fitness/wellbeing/sport/ industry that compares the volume of a determined weight of muscle vs equal volume of fat. It's flawed already,you're trying to compare chalk and cheese
  • Well quite clearly it does
    No
    Comparing 5lbs of both of course they are going to weigh the same, look at the volume though, if that portion of fat was reduced to the size of the 5lbs of muscle, then it's going to weigh less isn't it....

    Unless that post was meant to be a funny in which case, disregard this entirely.
    Oh dear. Yes,reduce the volume of fat to the size of 5lbs of muscle,it can't do anything but weigh less. The point made above was that muscle is inherently heavier,it isn't until you change the volume at which point the direct lb - lb comparison is lost as is anything else meaningful.

    I don't recall anything in the fitness/wellbeing/sport/ industry that compares the volume of a determined weight of muscle vs equal volume of fat. It's flawed already,you're trying to compare chalk and cheese

    To be honest, that post is lost on me - I'm not the brightest spark around, i need things explained much more simply than that - how I got a degree I'll never know. Hand em out to any old chimp these days.

    After much deliberation, what I think you're saying is that unless you put on a considerable amount of muscle, the amount of excess fat lost weighs much more than any muscle mass gained???

    I'm way out of my depth here so I'll back out before I look any more foolish.
    MmmBop

    Go big or go home.
  • t.m.h.n.e.tt.m.h.n.e.t Posts: 2,265
    Ok :D
  • gezebogezebo Posts: 364
    Rigga wrote:
    Muscle weighs more than fat, are you more toned?

    No it doesn't.

    XA7p5.jpg

    Well quite clearly it does. Comparing 5lbs of both of course they are going to weigh the same, look at the volume though, if that portion of fat was reduced to the size of the 5lbs of muscle, then it's going to weigh less isn't it....

    Unless that post was meant to be a funny in which case, disregard this entirely.

    Lol, come on guys this is simple physics. Lets not get confused by weight and mass!
  • t.m.h.n.e.tt.m.h.n.e.t Posts: 2,265
    gezebo wrote:
    Rigga wrote:
    Muscle weighs more than fat, are you more toned?

    No it doesn't.

    XA7p5.jpg

    Well quite clearly it does. Comparing 5lbs of both of course they are going to weigh the same, look at the volume though, if that portion of fat was reduced to the size of the 5lbs of muscle, then it's going to weigh less isn't it....

    Unless that post was meant to be a funny in which case, disregard this entirely.

    Lol, come on guys this is simple physics. Lets not get confused by weight and mass!
    Or volume.

    The actual statement is
    Muscle is heavier by volume than fat.
  • i under stand what T.M.H.N.E.T is sayin is 1 meter sq cube of cement will be a lot heavier than a 1 meter sq cube of feathers... so if 1 meter sq cube of cement = 1 tonn and a 1 meter sq cube of feathers= 100kg how many sq meters of feathers do you need to make 1 tonn answer is 1000 sq meters of feathers
    falling off doesn't hurt....its the landing that hurts


    FS Giant Trance X3 (2013)
    FS Specialized Camber 2011 (2011)=(stolen)
    HT Merlin Malt one (sold)
  • GhosttGhostt Posts: 192
    SUPERSUTT wrote:
    i under stand what T.M.H.N.E.T is sayin is 1 meter sq cube of cement will be a lot heavier than a 1 meter sq cube of feathers... so if 1 meter sq cube of cement = 1 tonn and a 1 meter sq cube of feathers= 100kg how many sq meters of feathers do you need to make 1 tonn answer is 1000 sq meters of feathers

    Or to put it simply, it's a question of density :roll:

    Muscle is much denser than fat, as all fat cells are essentially enclosed fat droplets. Skeletal muscle is made of a much more complex structure containing bundles of enclosed muscle fibres. The actual difference in density is roughly 160g/L of tissue.

    The general confusion with fat loss/weight gain can be attributed to this difference, but only if the amount of muscle gained as a result of exercise is equal to or greater than the volume of fat lost. Generally, people will see a decrease in weight as a result of increased exercise, as the amount of new muscle built is less than the volume of fat lost, unless specific muscle building exercises are undertaken.

    As for the OP, I can only suggest targeting the specific areas you want to improve. Hopefully you'll see quicker results than doing general exercise.
    Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go - T.S. Eliot
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