Law on lights

Kamzter

What is the law on lights?
I read somewhere that you can have flashy lights front and back as long as you have a light that is permanently on ??
I keep my front light on at all times and at the rear have one flashing and one on permanent as I feel that its my rear I have to watch with those that are blind.
Obviously if this is true then I'd say that 90% of riders whether roadies or just general commuters all have maybe a rear light flashing.

bails87

The law changed a while back so that flashing lights are ok on their own.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTr ... /DG_069837

At night your cycle MUST have white front and red rear lights lit. It MUST also be fitted with a red rear reflector (and amber pedal reflectors, if manufactured after 1/10/85). White front reflectors and spoke reflectors will also help you to be seen. Flashing lights are permitted but it is recommended that cyclists who are riding in areas without street lighting use a steady front lamp.

Mr_Cellophane

As I read the rules, as long as you have one light that follows the law any others can be anywhere and any type (except they must be white in front and red behind) unlike cars where every light must comply with one law or another.
Also there is ambiguity about "fixed to the bicycle" part and it could be claimed that if your only lights are on your helmet, or back pack then they aren't on the bike !

bails87

Hmmm, so a blue light is fine (as long as you've got a red and white one on the back and front respectively)....?

aidso

I would be strongly against having a front flashing light, as I witnessed a Magician on my way home from work on Monday. He his front light on his helmet was flashing but it appeared everytime I looked in the rear-view mirror he disappeared. This was because inconvenient timing meant his light was "off" when I looked up and then "on" again when I looked away. When I went to change lanes in front of him, I couldn't see him....but I knew he was there somewhere in my blindspot!
Front lights should always be static IMO.

...and no I didn't squash him. I patiently waited for him to pass

graeme_s-2

At dawn and dusk I use a flashing mode on my Dinotte where it switches between it's highest setting and it's lowest setting, so rather than flashing on and off it dims and brightens. I find this is very effective, as it attracts the eye as well as a flashing light, but doesn't suffer from the problem aidso refers to above.

Using two front lights, one that's flashing and one that's static would also avoid this problem.

bails87

I agree with Aidso and Graeme_s, flashing front lights when it's properly dark aren't a good idea unless they're alongside a constant one.

whitestar1

bails87 wrote:

I agree with Aidso and Graeme_s, flashing front lights when it's properly dark aren't a good idea unless they're alongside a constant one.

I agree too, from no on my front will be constant on.

logitech208

I dont get flashing front lights at all, to me the whole point of a front light is to see where I am going why would you want to flash at cars on the other side of the road to you, they should be able to see you coming.

From a drivers point of view some of the lights out there now are amazingly bright and having one flashing at you on the other side of the road is a major distraction.

bromyG

In my urban commuting environment, my front light is to get me seen by other road users, rather than to find my way in the dark and I find that my flashing front light gets noticed more by other traffic, more than a fixed white light which can get lost among all the other lights around.

But, I too have had the experience of being 'blinded' by another cyclist with two very bright fixed white lights cycling along the pavement in the opposite direction to me on the road!

DrLex

logitech208 wrote:

I dont get flashing front lights at all[...]

Since humans have specialised "flash detecting" region of the visual cortex, it's a simple & good way to increase the chances of being seen by other road users.
( I'd only ever use a flash in conjunction with a steady main)

redvee

My MagicShine is on constant on the front with a Knog flashing on the bike, on my helmet I have the central led solid with the 2 side leds flashing. Much the same on the rear.

zippy483

As and aside and a query about pedal reflectors.

Where would a cyclist legally stand should there be an accident and he had pedals fitted with no reflectors (as the maority of clipless pedals seem to be)?

i.e. would the third party be justified and legally safe to refuse compentsation/damages for an accident that was plainly their fault on the grounds of there being "no reflectors fitted to his pedal yer onor"

bompington

zippy483 wrote:

As and aside and a query about pedal reflectors.

Where would a cyclist legally stand should there be an accident and he had pedals fitted with no reflectors (as the maority of clipless pedals seem to be)?

i.e. would the third party be justified and legally safe to refuse compentsation/damages for an accident that was plainly their fault on the grounds of there being "no reflectors fitted to his pedal yer onor"

There is no law requiring pedal reflectors to be fitted, only that a bike must be sold with them.

zippy483

bompington wrote:

zippy483 wrote:

As and aside and a query about pedal reflectors.

Where would a cyclist legally stand should there be an accident and he had pedals fitted with no reflectors (as the maority of clipless pedals seem to be)?

i.e. would the third party be justified and legally safe to refuse compentsation/damages for an accident that was plainly their fault on the grounds of there being "no reflectors fitted to his pedal yer onor"

There is no law requiring pedal reflectors to be fitted, only that a bike must be sold with them.

Not the way I read the relevant passage from the link in a post above?

And where does that leave people that buy bikes without pedals fitted surely if it were a legal requirement to sell bikes with pedals and reflectors fitted then retailers wouldn't be able to sell pedal less bikes?

shouldbeinbed

logitech208 wrote:

I dont get flashing front lights at all, to me the whole point of a front light is to see where I am going why would you want to flash at cars on the other side of the road to you, they should be able to see you coming.

From a drivers point of view some of the lights out there now are amazingly bright and having one flashing at you on the other side of the road is a major distraction.

They're helpful for those drivers that seem to think the give way line is only advisory or for aligning their @rse with when stopping at one. Particularly if its helmet mounted for a direct stare.

They are also useful during dark rush hour to pick you out of all the fixed beam headlights, esp if filtering in the middle of the carriageway.

shouldbeinbed

bails87 wrote:

The law changed a while back so that flashing lights are ok on their own.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTr ... /DG_069837

At night your cycle MUST have white front and red rear lights lit. It MUST also be fitted with a red rear reflector (and amber pedal reflectors, if manufactured after 1/10/85). White front reflectors and spoke reflectors will also help you to be seen. Flashing lights are permitted but it is recommended that cyclists who are riding in areas without street lighting use a steady front lamp.

bompington wrote:

zippy483 wrote:

As and aside and a query about pedal reflectors.

Where would a cyclist legally stand should there be an accident and he had pedals fitted with no reflectors (as the maority of clipless pedals seem to be)?

i.e. would the third party be justified and legally safe to refuse compentsation/damages for an accident that was plainly their fault on the grounds of there being "no reflectors fitted to his pedal yer onor"

There is no law requiring pedal reflectors to be fitted, only that a bike must be sold with them.

Isn't that bells?


I read Bails quote as having pedal reflectors as a requirement full time, not just at point of sale, but it's a barely enforceable thing given the physical construction of pretty much every cleat system road bike intended pedal.

Anonymous

I thought 'flashing' basically shows that you are not a motorised vehicle as well. Motorbikes,cars etc have fixed lights, so flashing is a good way to show you are slower (especially useful on rear).

I have a flashing cateye for around town and a big light as well, on dim around town and bright when its pitch black

Blue Meanie

I had a chat with a Policeman about pedals, he reckoned (although he's not a Judge) that reflective tabs on shoes would mean you're keeping within the ideals of RVLR. We then discussed helmet lights/lights on bags, and he pointed out RVLR was about lights on vehicles - not bodies.
Somewhat contradictory advice and goes to show that the law needs updated and road users educated/informed.

Rear LED lights on 'chase' or 'random' also come up against the 'equal flashes @1-4Hz' problem.
Front lights have to have light escaping from the sides which means most high power lights are not legal on their own.
And you do need a rear red relector that's permanently attached, i.e. not zip-tied on, which infers that a rear light with built in reflector that's 'quick-release' doesn't qualify.

bails87

you do need a rear red relector that's permanently attached, i.e. not zip-tied on

How odd.

Surely I can undo a screw or bolt as easily as i can cut a zip tie, so short of welding it on, it's not permanently attached.

Joffff

logitech208 wrote:

I dont get flashing front lights at all, to me the whole point of a front light is to see where I am going why would you want to flash at cars on the other side of the road to you, they should be able to see you coming.

From a drivers point of view some of the lights out there now are amazingly bright and having one flashing at you on the other side of the road is a major distraction.

I had the pleasure of being stuck in a tin box in queuing traffic a few mornings ago. The weather was dreary but in my rear view mirror from a good distance away I noticed a bright flashing light in the cycle lane, working it's way past the cars. Without a flashing light, I probably wouldn't have noticed the cyclist above all the other cars behind me.

stuartturbo

Blue Meanie wrote:

I had a chat with a Policeman about pedals, he reckoned (although he's not a Judge) that reflective tabs on shoes would mean you're keeping within the ideals of RVLR.

I have also read heard that else where

flybywire

reflectives on shoes/overshoes - do they have to be red?? (for rear) instead of amber pedal reflectors.
a definative answer is useful :!:

bails87

flybywire wrote:

reflectives on shoes/overshoes - do they have to be red?? (for rear) instead of amber pedal reflectors.
a definative answer is useful :!:

The definitive answer is that you HAVE to have amber pedal reflectives.

Shoes/overshoes aren't mentioned in any legislation, so do what you want.

thecrofter

On the issue of reflectors I'm sure I read on another thread/forum that someone had succesfully argued in court that reflectors on clipped-on shoes were acceptable. The judge even accepted that reflective legbands would have been adequate, as they would perform the same function (ie go up and down and reflect) as pedal reflectors.

Blue Meanie

My Sidi's have red reflective bits on the back :-) Only shoes I've found so far though :-(

Ref: permanently attached - I can remove anything on a bike with an angle grinder, but yeah the 'endless' type of light fixing/mounting where the band is like a jubilee clip also contravenes this, and sadly it's supplied with the only Cateye light that conforms (built in reflector and states in a 'not easily removable manner' that it conforms) with current legislation.
I work in bike retail and the only/best advice I can offer is - ffs fit lights, as many as you like, but if it goes to court don't be surprised if their lawyer is better than your LBS's advice. And dip your hi-power headlight when you see oncoming traffic, especially fellow cyclists on unlit roads/bike paths.

As an aside, the cycling lobby has little weight in getting laws updated/reviewed, but the car lobby pays Road-Tax! Maybe we should all fit 2000 lumen headlights and dazzle drivers until this persistant grey-area is properly addressed.
I'd like an 'on-the-spot' fine for unlit cyclists where they get a '7-day producer' and have to turn up at a Police Station and show a receipt for lights, front and rear, or face a fine of £more than a 'legal' set would cost.
Admittedly I have a vested interest in folk buying bike lights, but tbh I don't care that the unlit RLJer gives me a bad name - I just hope they get home safe and don't cause some 'innocent' driver/road-user nightmares.