Continuing bike woes - fit AND pain!

moonbucket

Had my first post Christmas ride yesterday - took longer due to a chest bug that was going round.

Only did about 12 miles as I'm still feeling the effects of the bug. However, despite it being a gorgeous clear day - albeit very cold, I had a crappy ride.

I just cannot find a comfortable position on my bike! I've been back cycling for a while but only got the road bike ( a used Giant OCR 3) about 5 months ago and I've struggled to get a perfect fit. It's driving me crazy.

The specific pains I am getting are perineum pressure, the pad bit of both hands under my thumbs going sore/numb and now I'm getting pain in the sole of my left foot, about the area about the cleat, and also the seat seems to dig into my left thigh.

I've looked at loads of links and info on bike fit, also got a dvd on bike fit by that Aussie bike fitter Steve Hogg but I'm still having problems. I switched seats recently to a Charge Spoon and that seems to cut into my left thigh (which makes me wonder if I'm sitting slightly offset - fellow rider said she couldn't see any lean when cycling behind me). It also seems a bit slippy on the surface - meaning if I have it set to avoid pressure on the crown jewels I slide forward, if I have it to prevent slide the nose presses right where you least want it too.

The hand thing I think might by my gloves, they have a small pad near the area that hurts when I grip the brake hoods. No idea about the foot pain.

Then to add insult to an already crappy ride my right cleat got stuck and I toppled into the road in the middle of a busy high street, right in front of a busy cafe window....

I'd welcome any tips or advice from anyone who has ended up in a similar cycle of tweaking and fettling before having perhaps a Eureka! moment that seems to continually elude me!

EarlyGo

Hi moonbucket,

Cough up the money and get a professional bike fit fella! However, if you're still paying for Xmas and with the disclaimer that I'm absolutely not an expert then here's a few pointers:

Double check that your saddle is definitely pointing perfectly fore and aft. If it is then you're probably sitting slightly twisted on the bike. Is it level (get a spirit level ideally!)? Or it might just be that you and your Charge Spoon are not meant for each other! Although most people on the forum seem to rave about how comfortable they are.

Put new, thicker, padded tape and possibly bar phat on your handlebars and / or buy some gloves with heavier padding. Also remember to regularly change your hand position on the bars during the ride.

As to the foot pain, check your insoles are still in good condition. Or you might be subconsciously tensing that foot all the time? Or it could conceivably be caused by sitting on the bike slightly twisted? (Ties in with the saddle rubbing your leg.)

Overall though, with the hand pain and crown jewels pain, I'm wondering if your 'cockpit area' is too long for you or the frame might be too big causing you to overstretch?

How big is the frame? How long is the stem? How set back is the saddle? How tall are you? etc, etc.

Hope this may be of some use. If you wait though I'm sure someone with more 'know' than me will come along and right your woes!!

Regards. EarlyGo

moonbucket

Thanks EarlyGo.

I have some issues with the size of the bike. It's a small and so am I - only 5' 7", and the chap who had it previously was a smidgeon shorter than I am (hard to believe). I adjusted the shifters (sora) with the wee screw to bring the lever closer to the bars as the gap between bar and lever was too far for my small hands. They are still pretty useless from the drops which are too big imo, I intend to switch to a compact bar style as soon as I can afford to.

The stem is 90mm I think. The saddle is set bang in the middle of the rails at the moment.

I find without gloves the hoods are not as sore (but of course can't cycle for long in the cold that way) so my guess is it's either I'm leaning on them or tensing up, or the hoods, with padded gloves, are just too wide.

Regarding saddle level, which section should be level - is it the rails or the nose or the seat area - the spoon isn't flat so I'm not sure how to set it, just been moving it a wee bit to try and stop myself sliding forward.

I could get a bike fit for my birthday next month instead of replacing the wheels which have no wear indicator mark left on the rim so I want to change them asap. I just wish someone like Steve Hogg operated in Scotland as he seems to have a really good approach.

Thx for the pointers, got me thinking.

cyberknight

http://www.jimlangley.net/crank/bikefit.html
http://bikedynamics.co.uk/guidelines.htm
http://www.caree.org/bike101bikefit.htm

get a spirit level on the saddle to make sure its level, check your set back on your seat as well to make sure your sitting on the optimum spot for comfort as well as a check to make sure its straight.

moonbucket

Thx for the links cyberknight, looking at them now.

EarlyGo

moonbucket,

The bike doesn't sound like it would be massively too big for you (especially with a short 90mm stem). Are you relaxing when you're on the bike? Some people ride stiff and tense all the time which causes all sort of problems.

As a starting point with your saddle, the level bit would be from where it says 'charge' on the side to just before where the rear of the saddle starts to curve upwards. If you don't want to pay for a full bike fit, would your LBS be able to give you a cheap and quick assessment of your bike set up?

Would agree that you probably need to change wheels pronto!!

Regards, EarlyGo

MichaelW

Check again if the frame is the correct size for you. Giant compact frames have a wide tolerance for rider size and it sounds within the correct ballpark.
Your aim should be to get your fit correct rather than use the bike to train or go as fast as possible. Once you have the correct bike fit you can then use your bike as you like.
First I suggest that you ditch the clipless pedals and fit platforms, this will eliminate one source of incorrect fit (cleat position) which is super-critical but hard to get right. Position your foot in the pedal correctly, using mini toe clips is required.
Check the overall position of saddle and bars. My favourite site for bike fit is Peter White Cycles because it is less race oriented, more general purpose. Many of the analytical style bike fit sites only work well with athletic riders.
Consider using an adjustable stem.
Once you are happy with saddle and bar you can work on the fit details:
-saddle horizontal position (as you say, what part goes horizontally, it depends on the saddle)
-bar rotation within stem
-brake lever position on bar, up down and around.
-brake hood re-profile (stuff bits of inner tube rubber under the hoods)

When you are happy, you can refit your clipless pedals and adjust the cleat position.

Evil Laugh

Sounds like saddle issues could be having a knock on effect. Some people, myself included, can't get on with a curved saddle like a spoon, whatever the angle. Maybe you could try a Fizik arione for eg (a stockist of fizik should have a free saddle test scheme). That saddle is narrower (less thigh rub), flat so easy to level and also when level you won't be sling forwards if set up right. No guarantee you will like it but maybe worth a try. If you level the saddle make sure your bike is level between both wheel axles. Fizik also do a vs range with perineum relief channels.

It could well be that the sliding forwards is causing you to support some of your weight with your hands, exacerbating the glove thing. You could be doing this to relieve the saddle pressure too. Hand thing could just be odd gloves but what you describe suggests weight is being carried on that area.

moonbucket

Thanks everyone for the tips and ideas, I will put some to the test over the next couple of days and see how it goes. I will report back how I get on!

Incidentally, there does seem to be a place in Edinburgh called the TriCentre who do bike fits for £50 which seems rather reasonable, so I might try them once I've put the various tips and tricks into practice. Again, if I do I'll post a review of how I get on incase it's of any use to anyone else having similar hassles in future.

Cheers.

nferrar

1. You're supposed to sit on your sit-bones not your perineum - get a saddle that's wide enough for you (I'd suggest trying out Specialized BG saddles and they can measure you to in a decent store).
2. Hand numbness - firstly keep moving your hands about during a ride (tops, drops, hoods). Secondly what bar tape are you using? Could try more cushioned tape or even gel pads under the tape. Thirdly what gloves? Again the Specialized BG range is good for reducing pressure on the ulna nerve
3. Soreness/hotspot on your feet can be a sign the soles of your shoes a too flexy, stiff road shoes + road pedals with a wider platform can help but not always necessary. Also over-tightening shoes can cause circulation issues leading to numbness etc.

rick_chasey

5ft7?

Finally, someone who is my size.

Quite slim? Saddles are a pain. If they're cutting into you, it could be a number of things. I found that, generally, being a smaller chap, the saddles were usually too big rather than small.

Also, it takes a while to get used to a road bike settup. When I first got mine I felt like my head was the same height as my feet > now that old position feels positively upright to what I ride now.

As you ride, your lower back will get a little stronger and take some of the pressure off your arms.

Also, try and change one thing at a time. >> That way you can work out what the problem is.

wakou

I am 5' 7" as well, and have fit issues. What saddle did you end up with Rick? And what frame an size?

cyberknight

I am 5 foot 7 " as well, took me ages to get my fit right and now that i have i am paranoid about it and i have written it all down to the mm !!.
Saddles... i have a spoon and never got on with it, in the end i went for a arione clone that boardman bikes use and i find it great , always a few on ebay..
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from= ... Categories.
What worked for me on saddle height is the lemond formula + 3mm (...inside x .883) + 3mm from middle of the bottom bracket to top of seat , this assume you have the right size cranks for the bike and for me it is about 1 cm higher than the other popular method of inside leg x1.09 from pedal at the bottom of the stroke to saddle top.Incidentally the lemod method comes in at the same height as heel on pedal method.

for saddle set back i have it set back 4.5 cm from tip of saddle behind centre of bottom bracket , fairly close to the KOPS method .
Reach ... when on the hoods the handlebar obscures the front wheel hub , shoter or longer stem might be required here.
saddle to handle bar drop for me is about 5 cm , not that much although when i started on road bikes i used to flip the stem to have a 0 drop.

I know many will poo poo static and home made fits but if you cant justify the cost of a fit ( £120 here )then its worth a play .

whojanicanackerov

OMG I`m 5"7 as well this is unbelievable!!! Fancy applying to do a panto you guys??
We could be the seven dwarfs!!
Well I find the Selle Italia Carbonio works for my ass.52cm small frame with 100mm stem and ergonova bars.
Proper bike fit due next month so this may change.

cyberknight

lol my wife is 4 foot 6 " ...............

Regards leveling the spoon saddle i found that the nose curves down and the rear curves up so i used to sit the spirit level maybe 2 cm from the front of the saddle on rest the rear part slightly in from the back to accountant for the curves, on the back i was resting the spirit level so it was not sitting in the groove, the saddle itself was ok it was the stitching i did not get on with as it was just in the wrong place for my bits.I think you can get them without the stitching as well.

Ok so you 5 foot 7 " people this is what works for me on 2 bikes i ride ( both come out at 52 cm virtual frame )

inside leg 77.5 cm x .883= 68.4325 cm (+/-) i add 3 mm to give me a saddle height of 68.8 cm, saddle to pedals comes in at 85.5 ( inside leg x1.09 gives me 84.5)
saddle setback from tip of saddle to BB ( plumb line ) 4.5 cm ...can be altered dependent on saddle nose and femur length ,i used to have it at 3 cm but i found pushing it back worked . as it happens it comes close to KOPS but thats just a coincidence.
tip of saddle -to where the hoods curve up , where my hands sit ... 63 cm .this equates to the front hub out of sight when on the hoods and can be altered if you feel to stretched / prefer to be more upright etc .