Bearings ON or OVER crown race (pics)
Anonymous
Posts: 79,667
Hey guys.
I recently fitted some carbon rigid forks but I am getting a lot of knocking on the new headset.
This is the first one I have installed and clearly I am missing something.
I can see 3 possible problems.
1. Lower bearing not sat over the head race (even if this should happen in first place)
2. Compression washer that sits in the top bearing just sits in loose, I dont know how to add any pressure to this to hold everthing in place.
3. The Expander isnt really doing anything when I tighten, its all still loose at the headset with front brake applied its a bone shaker lol.
So I have stripped it all and am starting again and going to try and fathom this as I cant ride until I do
So .. first question, the lower bearing, it slides over the steerer and sits on the crown race like this, is this right ? or do I need to press the bearing onto the actual crown race or should it sit on top of it like this ?
Once I identified that I'll move onto next bit with pics and explain the next problem.
Cheers guys
I recently fitted some carbon rigid forks but I am getting a lot of knocking on the new headset.
This is the first one I have installed and clearly I am missing something.
I can see 3 possible problems.
1. Lower bearing not sat over the head race (even if this should happen in first place)
2. Compression washer that sits in the top bearing just sits in loose, I dont know how to add any pressure to this to hold everthing in place.
3. The Expander isnt really doing anything when I tighten, its all still loose at the headset with front brake applied its a bone shaker lol.
So I have stripped it all and am starting again and going to try and fathom this as I cant ride until I do
So .. first question, the lower bearing, it slides over the steerer and sits on the crown race like this, is this right ? or do I need to press the bearing onto the actual crown race or should it sit on top of it like this ?
Once I identified that I'll move onto next bit with pics and explain the next problem.
Cheers guys
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Comments
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Is it the correct crown race? Not the one off your old fork?0
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Yep its the new crown race that came with the new headset and the crown race has a split in it, I guess to make for easier installation?0
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SOunds right, though of course the compression ring for the top part of the headset usually looks very similar! got them the right way round? The bearing sits on top as you have shown, someti,mes with a ring seal too.
What headset is it, and are you using a top cap and star nut? Steerer right length?0 -
Have you got the bearings the wrong way round, as in could that be the top one, and the bottom is on top.I don't do smileys.
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Parktools0 -
Yes Super your right they do, the headset is red so I assumed I had the right one for the crown race as thats red too and I think a bit larger than the silver compression ring if I have that right way round ?
The bearings have exactly the same markings on and I cant tell any physical difference, I put the chamfered edge into the bearing cup with the chamfered edge of the bearing so its a correct fit which I assume is right ? otherwise it would be the other flat side of the bearing going against a chamfered part of the cup which wouldnt fit.
Heres some pics to help better highlight what I am doing wrong I hope
Upside down view of compression ring, bearing, thin flat washer and top part of the cup, obviously the order I put over the steerer is bearing, compression ring, washer, top cup cover:
Like this, but theres no compression in that ring it just falls in semi snug and I cant get it in any further no matter how much I press :
I dont know if this tells anything ? maybe theres too much of a spacer at the top ? but I read I need this as not to crush the top edge of the carbon steerer tube, the spacers are 20mm + 15mm at the bottom and 1 x 10mm above the stem at the top:
Finally the stem I am using issss let me see .....
Integrato Headset - MTB Semi-Integrated (zero stack)
http://superstar.tibolts.co.uk/product_ ... cts_id=114
And the expander issss ...
M Part Carbon Fibre Fork Expander
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=19009
What have I done fellas ? lol could it be the expander not getting any purchase ? is that why the headset is knocking ? or could it be that compression ring, if so how do I get it to compress ? or the bottom bearing does that want pressing over the crown race or does that defeat the purpose?
Am so close... yet so far
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Your steerer looks like a turd.0
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Chunkers1980 wrote:Your steerer looks like a turd.
WTF kinda help is that ???0 -
The bearings just 'sit' in the cups.
I think the problem may be the expander - if it is not gripping the inside of the tube, then turning the top cap (which preloads the bearings) will have no effect.0 -
Every thing sounds like it is together right EXCEPT for the bung.
Get it sorted as that will be the issue as you can not preload anything."Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
Parktools :?:SheldonBrown0 -
Lovely guys thank you for identifying that for me
So next question then is .. what options do I have ?
Is there a way to test this theory ? as i have wound that expander to the max and its made no difference, maybe there are too many spacers or the expander needs to be closer to the stem perhaps ?
Or would alonger expander that goes down the stem solve this, if so I'll just buy another longer one.
Any way of testing this before I buy a longer expander or should I just do that and see if it helps ?0 -
Is it a carbon steerer?0
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The expander needs to be as far into the steerer as needed for the top cap not to bottom out on it when applying preload. Like wise the top cap must not bottom out on the steerer.
Do everything up and then after doing up the stem bolts remove the top cap and see what is going on."Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
Parktools :?:SheldonBrown0 -
Yes its a carbon steerer.
Ahh see the expander top cap goes into the steerer and sits flush on the top spacer which is 3mm higher than the top of the steerer.
Do you think I could change my combination of spacers to see if I can get this to work ?0 -
CubeCrazy wrote:Yes its a carbon steerer.
Ahh see the expander top cap goes into the steerer and sits flush on the top spacer which is 3mm higher than the top of the steerer.
Do you think I could change my combination of spacers to see if I can get this to work ?
Pics. Sounds wrong. But some are odd."Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
Parktools :?:SheldonBrown0 -
This is how I set it up, the top expander bolt drops straight in and sits on the top spacer.
I screw it up until its v tight, torque up the stem, put front brake on, rock and theres loads of play in the headset 0 -
At the risk of stating the obvious, you are expanding the bung BEFORE connecting up the top cap?
It's important to understand that tightening the top cap does NOT expand the bung. What it does is simply wind the bung up towards the top cap. Once it's reached the top cap and can't go any further the bung will begin to expand. But it's now expanding AFTER reaching the top cap so applies no downward pressure on the spacers (and therefore not pulling up the steerer tube).
Take the top cap off and have a good look at the hole the screw for the top cap goes into on the bung. Notice that the edge of that hole appears to be hexagonal. Guess what you stick in there? Yes, an even bigger allen key (forgot which size). Use the key on this hole to expand the bung deep down inside the tube before even putting the top cap anywhere near the bung. Once that is done, stick the top cap on, tighten slightly with the smaller allen key and apply your front brakes while rocking the bike back and forth to see if the forks rock. Simples.........0 -
As above the bung needs installing."Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
Parktools :?:SheldonBrown0 -
Ouija I had no idea how to install a bung or even that there was a hex head inside lmao.. why oh why dont these things come with instructions I'll never know
Well I have given it a go... and...
Its better, much better, but still knocks more than it should and I still cant ride it like this, so the last question has to be torque ? what would I torque the expander bolt to be ? I just did it at 10nm but its clearly not enough, any ideas ?
And thank you every one so much for your help tonight, I wouldnt "nearly" be back on the road without your help and i'd be stuck in all weekend.0 -
So as I said above fi t all and then remove the op cap and pics."Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
Parktools :?:SheldonBrown0 -
YEEEEHA ! ... Houston ... we have confirmation ! its all FIXED !
What did it was understanding the correct method or that there was even any method to the expanding bolt, see I was tightening it at the cap and I can see now that it wasnt really doing anything.
Once I correctly installed the expanding bolt I put the top cap on finger tight, nope still no good, so then I tightened that to 7nm and Voila ! no play whatsoever
I cant thank you guys enough for the time you have taken tonight to give me advice and get my bike sorted, without your efforts and advice I wouldnt be going anywhere this weekend so thank you everyone, very much.
Matt 0 -
Now go for a ride and take suitable Allen keys with you as it WILL settle and WILL need a tweak."Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
Parktools :?:SheldonBrown0 -
Lovely Nick thanks for the advice, Cube toolset here we come 0
