Starting to Race - But which race(s)?

CakeLovinBeast

I've been wanting to try racing for a while, but I've put off the idea on account of not feeling like I'm fit enough, not knowing if I'm fit enough and generally being a bit of a wuss...

After a bit of reflection today, I've decided to MTFU and start applying myself a bit more: Otherwise what's the point in all of the training efforts, the BC membership, the reading (and trying to understand) various training methodologies? I've got a few century rides this year, but in all fairness they're not going to properly challenge me and they're not races, so I gain nothing from them, regardless of how quickly I get round.

Fitness aside (as that's a topic of a whole separate thread), what kind of event would I be better off starting with? Should I start with a Cat 4 only/Go-Race event which is, psychologically at least, less intimidating; or should I just jump straight in for a Cat 3/Cat 4 event and get it done? I don't have any unrealistic illusions about turning up to either and blowing the field away - I know that there are going to be a whole load of people who are fitter than me - but really what I want to do is to get involved and at least get the measure of myself compared to other people, so that I can at least find out my (competitive) strengths and weaknesses and start working on them to make me a better rider.

Any thoughts are appreciated, thanks.

bonkstrong

12 months ago I weighed 14 Stones and could gladly hop aboard my Addict and go for a 60 mile spin in under 3 hours. Fast-forward to the present day and I no longer smoke but ballooned to 17 stone, my Addict creaks when I throw my leg over it and I've just entered my first ever race, a Go-race Velo29 Winter Series event at Croft. My theory is that racing doesn't get much easier/accesible than that. If it's too easy then I win, hurrah!! But far more likely than that is that I'll sit at the back of the bunch vomitting at every corner just trying to hang on... Or I might even finish mid-pack? Who knows???

Whatever happens I think starting with a Go-Race event type like that is the best thing. Even if you have the exact same fitness as the winner you will more than likely get be nowhere near challenging at the line . From what I've seen racing is an artform and the only way to get better is to race. Start with the Go-Race and you'll not go wrong... IMO

MikeWW

I just went straight into a 3/4 crit race with the objective of finishing in the bunch-didn't find it too bad. The worst that happens is that you get dropped and its no big deal

dulldave

I like your attitude, there are sadly to few people with your outlook on racing.

How much bunch riding have you done? If the only bunch riding you've done is at a sportive then you're not ready to be let loose in a race I'm afraid (not that it stops a lot of people).

The first thing I'd recommend is find a chaingang close to you and get some experience at that. When you get to know some of the guys there they will be able to offer the sort of advice having had the benefit of seeing how strong a rider you are.

Good luck

GiantMike

My first races were 3rd/4th Cat races. Over 5 weeks I went from getting dropped half way through the first race to finishing with the bunch in the last race.

In my experience races differ enormously depending on who turns up on the night and which race/series it is.

I echo what Dave says above. You'll get a lot of abuse (and rightly so) if you're not confident in a group and don't ride in a 'race-friendly' way.

CakeLovinBeast

Cheers folks, thanks for all of the feedback.

dulldave wrote:

I like your attitude, there are sadly to few people with your outlook on racing.

How much bunch riding have you done? If the only bunch riding you've done is at a sportive then you're not ready to be let loose in a race I'm afraid (not that it stops a lot of people).

The first thing I'd recommend is find a chaingang close to you and get some experience at that. When you get to know some of the guys there they will be able to offer the sort of advice having had the benefit of seeing how strong a rider you are.

Good luck

Dave,

I bunch ride most weekends on the club run, though rarely at anything that could be called "race" speed, so my issue is going to be as much technique as it is fitness, it seems. The only issue that I have is that a high proportion of the racers in our club are at an E/1/2 level, and so training takes place at their pace for the most part. I swing between the lower two of the three groups that go out on a Sunday at the minute - the fast group wouldn't so much drop me as cut off my legs and feed them back to me widthways! The club chaingangs don't start back up until the spring.

I daresay my fitness is going to be the limiting factor... I'll need to speak with some people to see if it's reasonable to get to a cat 4 level of fitness within the next 16 weeks or so. This is probably a whole other conversation for the Training forum though!

Herbsman

Make sure you can corner well if you're doing crits with hairpins. Hold your line and have fun. Ride with a smile on your face...

CakeLovinBeast

I actually practice my cornering regularly... It's one of those "soft" skills that can make a massive difference IMO. Nice to know that I'm actually doing something right!

DavidJB

I disagree about going to a race to aim to finish in the bunch, what's the point of going to a race with any other aim than to win? Even if its improbable at best you should still go with the aim to win. If you go to win and don't and get despondent and give up then you're probably not cut out for it anyway.

It probably means you're a bit arrogant but aren't all the best sports people...Its only by believing your the best that you can be the best!

Tom Dean

DavidJB wrote:

I disagree about going to a race to aim to finish in the bunch, what's the point of going to a race with any other aim than to win? Even if its improbable at best you should still go with the aim to win. If you go to win and don't and get despondent and give up then you're probably not cut out for it anyway.

It probably means you're a bit arrogant but aren't all the best sports people...Its only by believing your the best that you can be the best!

There is a difference between positive thinking, being arrogant and being deluded. Being realistic about your chances allows you to make the best tactical decisions during a race.

DavidJB

Tom Dean wrote:

DavidJB wrote:

I disagree about going to a race to aim to finish in the bunch, what's the point of going to a race with any other aim than to win? Even if its improbable at best you should still go with the aim to win. If you go to win and don't and get despondent and give up then you're probably not cut out for it anyway.

It probably means you're a bit arrogant but aren't all the best sports people...Its only by believing your the best that you can be the best!

There is a difference between positive thinking, being arrogant and being deluded. Being realistic about your chances allows you to make the best tactical decisions during a race.

Fair point well made. 8)

ozzzyosborn206

DavidJB wrote:

I disagree about going to a race to aim to finish in the bunch, what's the point of going to a race with any other aim than to win? Even if its improbable at best you should still go with the aim to win. If you go to win and don't and get despondent and give up then you're probably not cut out for it anyway.

It probably means you're a bit arrogant but aren't all the best sports people...Its only by believing your the best that you can be the best!

one of my main aims this year is to finish a premier, only about 5-10 people enter them are there with a realistic hope of winning, as is probably the same for most races, going to a race with the aim to win or simply finish would have a big bearing on how you ride the race, there isn't many road races that can be won by sitting in all day unless you have a strong team willing to sacrifice their ride for you. That said i understand what your saying,

dulldave

CakeLovinBeast wrote:

Cheers folks, thanks for all of the feedback.

dulldave wrote:

I like your attitude, there are sadly to few people with your outlook on racing.

How much bunch riding have you done? If the only bunch riding you've done is at a sportive then you're not ready to be let loose in a race I'm afraid (not that it stops a lot of people).

The first thing I'd recommend is find a chaingang close to you and get some experience at that. When you get to know some of the guys there they will be able to offer the sort of advice having had the benefit of seeing how strong a rider you are.

Good luck

I bunch ride most weekends on the club run, though rarely at anything that could be called "race" speed, so my issue is going to be as much technique as it is fitness, it seems. The only issue that I have is that a high proportion of the racers in our club are at an E/1/2 level, and so training takes place at their pace for the most part. I swing between the lower two of the three groups that go out on a Sunday at the minute - the fast group wouldn't so much drop me as cut off my legs and feed them back to me widthways! The club chaingangs don't start back up until the spring.

I daresay my fitness is going to be the limiting factor... I'll need to speak with some people to see if it's reasonable to get to a cat 4 level of fitness within the next 16 weeks or so. This is probably a whole other conversation for the Training forum though!

Go out with the fast guys and stay with them as long as you can. Then next week aim to stay with them longer and keep this going. Before long you'll be able to stick with them. It's only really when you ride in a bunch under the threat of being dropped that you:

1. Stretch yourself and increase your speed
2. Learn how to position yourself in absolutely the best way not to get dropped

I do this all year and I improve faster than my peers who are sitting in a group they are comfortable with. If you're not getting dropped you're not making it difficult enough for yourself :0)

CakeLovinBeast

dulldave wrote:

Go out with the fast guys and stay with them as long as you can. Then next week aim to stay with them longer and keep this going. Before long you'll be able to stick with them. It's only really when you ride in a bunch under the threat of being dropped that you:

1. Stretch yourself and increase your speed
2. Learn how to position yourself in absolutely the best way not to get dropped

I do this all year and I improve faster than my peers who are sitting in a group they are comfortable with. If you're not getting dropped you're not making it difficult enough for yourself :0)

Another fair point, well made.

I've been looking for a kick up the backside to go out with the other groups, as I've spent the winter in hibernation with the club B run, doing the easy miles as base training. I think from next week I need to step up and look forward to getting dropped!

On a semi-related point, can I ask about specificity of training? I've checked out the routes of the closed-circuit crits close to me, which are mostly on cart tracks or airfields and nice and flat. Given that most seem to be 1hr plus "x" laps, is there any benefit (do you think) to introducing a 70 minute training session at ~20mph? I know that average speed is not the be-all and end-all, but it could at least be a reasonable indication of readiness. I could even introduce higher-intensity efforts into the session to simulate sprint efforts, etc. Whaddya think? Worth it?

racingcondor

I'd like to chime in on 'first race mentality'. It's something dear to my heart as although I'm a 3rd Cat I've been racing the Hillingdon winter series and seen the results of some bad crashes (almost all in the 4th Cat race).

There is a lot to learn if you are going to race well, you could (and probably should) spend 5-6 races just learning how to move in the bunch so that you both avoid the wind and never end up on the back. Obviously winning is the goal but in your first race I highly recommend trying to finish in the bunch with an awareness of how hard you worked. You will learn a lot about your relative fitness and how the pack moves so it won't be wasted even if you gave up a chance at victory.

CakeLovinBeast

Final question(s) then:

- If a race is advertised as E/1/2/3/4 (as opposed to 3/4), is it safe to assume that it's a handicap race?
- In handicap races, are points awarded for highest places in each cat, or simply for the first 10 over the line?

Cheers!

okgo

racingcondor wrote:

I'd like to chime in on 'first race mentality'. It's something dear to my heart as although I'm a 3rd Cat I've been racing the Hillingdon winter series and seen the results of some bad crashes (almost all in the 4th Cat race).

There is a lot to learn if you are going to race well, you could (and probably should) spend 5-6 races just learning how to move in the bunch so that you both avoid the wind and never end up on the back. Obviously winning is the goal but in your first race I highly recommend trying to finish in the bunch with an awareness of how hard you worked. You will learn a lot about your relative fitness and how the pack moves so it won't be wasted even if you gave up a chance at victory.

hmm, actually a lot of the crashes have been in the 3rds too...

And I agree with you in part, but I wouldn't say you should sit up and not go for a win just because you're new to racing, that not only is pointless, but its boring, and you'll learn a lot by going for a proper sprint. About timing, positioning, moving through people at pace etc.

I did win my first race, and then I won my first cat 3 race too, and I've since placed in the top ten a couple of times, and I'd say those 4 races have taught me a hell of a lot, and I think I've learned more about racing and positining by going for the sprint every time rather than being 25th or something.

Pross

CakeLovinBeast wrote:

Final question(s) then:

- If a race is advertised as E/1/2/3/4 (as opposed to 3/4), is it safe to assume that it's a handicap race?
- In handicap races, are points awarded for highest places in each cat, or simply for the first 10 over the line?

Cheers!

1. Yes, only regional C and C+ are open to all categories and must be run as a handicap (or other appropriate format, whatever that means!). It may also be that there will be seperate races on the day but all categories will be covered by one or more of them.
2. I believe points are given based only on overall finishing position irrespective of your category as you have been given the advantage of a 'head start' in the race to start with.

Neil Buckley

CakeLovinBeast wrote:

I've been wanting to try racing for a while, but I've put off the idea on account of not feeling like I'm fit enough, not knowing if I'm fit enough and generally being a bit of a wuss...

After a bit of reflection today, I've decided to MTFU and start applying myself a bit more: Otherwise what's the point in all of the training efforts, the BC membership, the reading (and trying to understand) various training methodologies? I've got a few century rides this year, but in all fairness they're not going to properly challenge me and they're not races, so I gain nothing from them, regardless of how quickly I get round.

Fitness aside (as that's a topic of a whole separate thread), what kind of event would I be better off starting with? Should I start with a Cat 4 only/Go-Race event which is, psychologically at least, less intimidating; or should I just jump straight in for a Cat 3/Cat 4 event and get it done? I don't have any unrealistic illusions about turning up to either and blowing the field away - I know that there are going to be a whole load of people who are fitter than me - but really what I want to do is to get involved and at least get the measure of myself compared to other people, so that I can at least find out my (competitive) strengths and weaknesses and start working on them to make me a better rider.

Any thoughts are appreciated, thanks.

Get on a 4th cat race and crack on with it, there is going to be people there with the same experience base of what you have, so dont worry about it. Try to be smooth as you can and hold your lines through the corners that is the main thing that pisses people off as they come through, dont panic either if faster riders come past close, again hold your line and let them come past you. On handicap races you do get the occasional gobby person who thinks they are gods gift gobbing off, just ignore them. The best place to be also if you can manage it is the top end of the field its smoother up there, so try get yourself positioned there, at the back the pace will start whipping and you will be sprinting out of every corner. As for riding in the bunch, dont leave yourself in a position you cant get out if something goes wrong, dont overlap wheels too much or close, try keep on the outside if you need to, thats what prefer.

Most importantly make sure your bike is good to go and you have fun because its bloody brilliant!