Which entry-level DH bike?

felix.london

Right, I'm nearly in a position to buy my first downhill bike with a view to start doing the Megavalanche on an annual basis and it's outta these two German rigs;

http://www.roseversand.com/article/rose ... aid:524537 @ €1,800

and

http://www.canyon.com/_en/mountainbikes ... tml?b=2579 @ €2,200


€2,000 is/was what I've budgeted for so I'd get the Rose factory upgraded with a Shimano Saint shifter, rear mech & brakes plus a 12-27 Ultegra sprocket which brings it in at €2,038

Or is the Boxxer fork on the Canyon worth going over budget for? The Canyon weighs about 0.5kg less and I believe most of that's saved saved in the fork but I believe the frame is slightly lighter than the Rose too.

SRAM says The Domain Dual Crown RC has "Domain’s durability in BoXXer’s 200mm chassis" - does this mean it's more durable than the Boxxer fork on the Canyon?

Any advice appreciated

cooldad

Are you sure you need that much bike for the Mega?

rockmonkeysc

Bit big for the Mega. You want an all mountain or freeride bike for that. Though I do know someone who did it on a Mondraker Summum.
I would take the Rose out of those two, sell the domains & buy a set of Boxxer teams, that would be better than the other upgrades you mentioned.

felix.london

The Mega is really just something I'd like to do and at first just get down with me & bike in one piece. The bike will be used from June-September each year on local DH tracks. Cheers

delcol

most people i know who have done it did it on a 160 all mountain rig.

i would probably do it on a 180mm bike..

.blitz

Unless you are in Santa Cruz V10 territory, spec is fairly meaningless on a DH bike what you are looking for is angles, weight, strength, stiffness and balance.

The bikes from Rose and Canyon are well specced and the geometry looks ball park but beyond that it is hard to tell how good they are and personally I would never buy one without having ridden it first.

The dual crown Domain RC is a coil fork with steel stanchions and adjustable rebound/preload. I have one on my Voltage and it weighs a ton but the action is superb. The advantage of having 200mm travel is that the fork can be super-compliant at the start but there's still a lot of travel left so the suspension is very progressive. There is very little stiction and the dual crown & 20mm Maxle make it devastatingly stiff & accurate.

felix.london

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Bit big for the Mega. You want an all mountain or freeride bike for that. Though I do know someone who did it on a Mondraker Summum.
I would take the Rose out of those two, sell the domains & buy a set of Boxxer teams, that would be better than the other upgrades you mentioned.

Cheers for the advice. As stated above - bike will be used 99% of the time for local DH tracks.

2010 Boxxer Teams for £700? http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=34999

I might get £350 back if I sell the Domains as CRC are selling them for £400

Which would bring total of Beef Cake with 2010 Boxxer Teams to about €2,200 same as the Canyon. Interesting..

Thanks.

felix.london

.blitz wrote:

Unless you are in Santa Cruz V10 territory, spec is fairly meaningless on a DH bike what you are looking for is angles, weight, strength, stiffness and balance.

The bikes from Rose and Canyon are well specced and the geometry looks ball park but beyond that it is hard to tell how good they are and personally I would never buy one without having ridden it first.

The dual crown Domain RC is a coil fork with steel stanchions and adjustable rebound/preload. I have one on my Voltage and it weighs a ton but the action is superb. The advantage of having 200mm travel is that the fork can be super-compliant at the start but there's still a lot of travel left so the suspension is very progressive. There is very little stiction and the dual crown & 20mm Maxle make it devastatingly stiff & accurate.

The Boxxer on the Canyon also has 200mm of travel. The Canyon also has an adjustable head angle - 64/65°

I'm really after something that's gonna last (frame & fork) as it's gonna take some abuse the first year for sure and is 'easier' for a beginner to ride. I've ridden the Rose (2011). To be honest it's such a different beast than what I'm used to (120mm XC hardtail) that either bike is gonna take some getting used to

1mancity2

Take a look at this,

http://www.ukbikesdepot.com/m15b124s1p7 ... S_GB/20365

felix.london

1mancity2 wrote:

Take a look at this,

http://www.ukbikesdepot.com/m15b124s1p7 ... S_GB/20365

Looks good but way over my budget! I'm looking at €2K(ish) that comes out at nearly €2.4K

Cheers

El Zomba

Can't vouch for build quality, but these bikes seem to have a lot of bang for the buck (definate rival to Canyon in that respect):

http://www.yt-industries.com/shop/index.php?page=product&info=153&xb9b67=lfstf2v18gatjfndf8afku4oqlaijf3i

http://www.yt-industries.com/shop/index.php?page=product&info=154

chez_m356

may help to have a chat with this guy viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=12795517 regarding the canyon, not exactly the model you were looking at,but may still be of some help

Northwind

YT look brilliant value, never ridden one though. Or you can get lower-end Scott Voltages in your range, those are fab...

Agree with the comments about dualcrown domains, and replacing them straight off with something that doesn't weigh as much as a Mini.

rockmonkeysc

Domains are bombproof & the Rose has the top spec RC model which is actually really good but they are 600g heavier than the Boxxers. I don't mind extra weight on DH bikes & it will still be a lot lighter than an old Giant Glory.

Northwind

I don't mind extra weight if it's doing something useful, but for most users that's just excess lard- how many folks find Boxxers aren't strong enough?

rockmonkeysc

Not all that uncommon for boxxer to break the arch between the lowers. They are also half the price & more reliable.
Plenty of people are happy riding 45lb+ DH bikes

Northwind

Aye, it's not unheard of but it's not really something to worry about either. Worth the tradeoff? Individual's call but I'd say not personally, except for the people asking most of their forks.

But, you're right enough, it's a matter of taste. And I'd not turn my nose up at any of these bikes regardless of the fork.

felix.london

El Zomba wrote:

Can't vouch for build quality, but these bikes seem to have a lot of bang for the buck (definate rival to Canyon in that respect):

http://www.yt-industries.com/shop/index.php?page=product&info=153&xb9b67=lfstf2v18gatjfndf8afku4oqlaijf3i

http://www.yt-industries.com/shop/index.php?page=product&info=154

Cheers for the input! They look like good bikes and the DH one is bang on the money...money wise :?

Def worth a look. Although the DH model comes out heavier than both the Rose & the Canyon (although I'm really after stability and most of all stopping power! ) - also I don't dig SRAM shifters but guess I'll be doing less shifting on a DH bike than my XC

Cheers

felix.london

chez_m356 wrote:

may help to have a chat with this guy viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=12795517 regarding the canyon, not exactly the model you were looking at,but may still be of some help

Yeah cheers for that. Will drop him a line.

Thanks

felix.london

Northwind wrote:

YT look brilliant value, never ridden one though. Or you can get lower-end Scott Voltages in your range, those are fab...

Agree with the comments about dualcrown domains, and replacing them straight off with something that doesn't weigh as much as a Mini.

Probably a silly question, but will knocking half a kilo of the front end effect handling? - especially on steep, fast descents! As I said in another reply, this summers main aim is for stability and being able to stop the thing..

Cheers for the input Northwind

supersonic

How about this?

http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/products.p ... Suspension

Northwind

felix.london wrote:

Probably a silly question, but will knocking half a kilo of the front end effect handling? - especially on steep, fast descents! As I said in another reply, this summers main aim is for stability and being able to stop the thing..

Not a silly question, but I can't answer it I'm afraid- it'll have an effect on balance but how much, and exactly what the end result will be, can't say. Only comparsion I have, is I didn't like the Voltage much with the DCs in, it felt like it wanted to fall on its nose every time the wheels left the ground, but maybe with a bit more time on it and a bit more skill it'd not be an issue.

felix.london

Northwind wrote:

Aye, it's not unheard of but it's not really something to worry about either. Worth the tradeoff? Individual's call but I'd say not personally, except for the people asking most of their forks.

But, you're right enough, it's a matter of taste. And I'd not turn my nose up at any of these bikes regardless of the fork.

I wont be doing any crazy drop-offs or ridiculous jumps, well not this year anyway I think whatever forks I choose will be getting mainly side impacts after I go over the handlebars.

I really want the fork that will last the longest so sounds like I should probably save a few €€ and go for the Rose. I had my heart set on it last year - but it was black then! It's only 5kg more than my Rockhopper and I wont be climbing with it so all good really

felix.london

supersonic wrote:

How about this?

http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/products.p ... Suspension

Looks interseting and probably more suited for the Mega. But really after a proper DH rig as that's what I'm gonna be using it for day in, day out. And hopefully hitting bigger and bigger stuff.

Cheers anyway.

cat_with_no_tail

supersonic wrote:

How about this?

http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/products.p ... Suspension

Christ on an obvious! that's an unbelievable price.

Shame it's only in small, or I may have had to partake in that.

supersonic

Loving the deals on GT and Mongoose - because they aren't cool wit da kidz (should see the morons on Moredirt talking), they get hefty reductions.

But might change now the Athertons ride GT.

rockmonkeysc

Weight on a DH bike isn't that much of an issue. I know people who still win races on 50lb Giant Glory's & find no problem with riding that bulk. Damping quality in the fork is very important on a DH bike, if it's not good you will know about it no matter haw much of a beginner you are. The Domain RC has got a very good damper.
YT are still a bit too unknown. I wouldn't buy one yet.