Tibet and Nepal

incurab1e

Hi,

Does anyone have any experience cycling in Tibet and/or Nepal?

We are planning a trip including Everest base camp in 2014. The initial research has flagged up a number of bureaucratic issues with Tibet.

We are also very unsure of the terrain we may encounter, and so what sort of bike to take.

I have some books on order which should shed some light but there is no substitute for personal experience

thanks!

satanas

Sorry, I don't have any current info re Tibet but my impression is that things have been slowly and steadily getting harder since at least 2000. You'll probably find more useful info elsewhere. For starters I'd recommend Lonely Planet's Thorntree forum: http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/index.jspa (Try both country-specific and "On Your Bike" sections), and http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/ where there's at least one trans-Tibet account. There are also "how to avoid the Chinese police" sites but I don't have any links handy.

I'm not quite sure why you're starting to plan so far ahead as access restrictions can change quickly; I'd suggest you have a Plan B and/or be prepared to go whenever the situaton looks good - and maybe be prepared to abort at short notice. If you haven't done it I can highly recommend the Chinese (and Pakistani) sides of the KKH, and this may be a good fallback position.

Re Nepal: Not a lot of roads, so traffic can be heavy at times - especially after landslides - surfaces are rough, etc. IMHO, trekking is a much better way to see the scenic parts of Nepal. And there's more/better cycling to be done in Northern India, i.e., HP, UP, Ladakh, etc.

Good luck; I'd like to get to Tibet some day but it's looking less and less likely to happen.

incurab1e

Thanks man,

There are a number of reasons for planning this far ahead, weddings, finances and research being the main reasons.

We have done a number of tours before but nothing as remote and unguided as this hence the need for plenty of planning and preperation.

Definately take your point about needing a back up plan but we'll be doing whatever we can to make the trip possible. I think currently you need to be part of a guided tour so we may look at hiring a guide in lhasa.
There's a long way to go still and from what we've heard a plan b and c will be needed

Anyone else had any experience?

campbellrae1

It could be worth posting a question on the Horizons Unlimited forum. It's mainly for motorbike travellers but they have people who have ridden just about everywhere, so someone should have some useful info! And it should be relatively recent as well given how quickly the situation can change, as mentioned above.

In terms of Tibet, I have an acquaintance who was there in 2008 and he said he had to leave his bike at the border, and get another in Tibet :? Not sure why, but he said it was a major pain in the ass, but worth it as it was a fantastic place to ride/see! He's somewhere in deepest darkest Africa now,so getting more info from the lucky sod could be a bit difficult! As I said, I'm really not sure why he had to do that, maybe he just looked a bit dodgy.

satanas

After recommending a couple of sites above I've just spent quite some time poking around them - there's plenty of interesting stuff there and good info to be had, with some very knowledgeable people at Thorntree.

Also, various people have suggested that nowadays you may get more of a Tibetan experience in Spiti or Ladakh, without the PSB hassles. The KKH on the Chinese side is similarly bleak/empty in places if that matters.

Personally, I'd try really hard not to pay out money before arrival, given the possibilities of rapid closure, or expulsion of tourists. (And I'm not too keen on tours but YMMV.)

Re leaving bikes at the border - was this a motorbike or a bicycle? I've taken a bicycle into China (though not Tibet) on the KKH with no problem, but a motorcyclist we met told me that one had to show the bke wasn't going to be sold there. The only way to do this apparently involved paying a huge deposit (they had a BMW) so it wasn't feasible.

bobinski

I rode in Tibet and Nepal some 23 years ago
Not too sure my experiences then would refelct how things are now aside from perhaps the obvious. Roads variable. The good roads, especially in Tibet are used or at least seemed to be for access to and from huge construction sites and to remove natural resources. HORRIBLE to ride on and very dangerous because truck traffic was non stop, fast and with little care for other road users. On the rare occasions they were free of traffic the roads were great. But it was rare.
The roads in Nepal were in a pretty poor condition. We were glad we had taken Mountain bikes. They had to put up with a lot of day to day abuse. They were very crowded and not at all fun to ride on. We gave up and sold our bikes and went Trekking instead.
Aside from that, both Countries are simply the most beautiful places i have ever travelled in. I have wonderful memories though sadly, especially with Tibet, they are tarnished by the oppression we saw and the ruthless segregation and gradual overwhelming of the indigenous Tibetans.

campbellrae1

It was a motorbike, and the reason you give above sounds familiar! I have sent him an email, but god knows when/if he will get it and see what happened exactly! Here's hoping for a response.

satanas

I second bobinski's suggestion about taking a MTB.

The stronger (than 700C) wheels cannot hurt, plus spare tyres and tubes (of sorts) will be available in Nepal and India (best choices are in Kathmandu), whereas 700C will not be available and you must take all your own spares. If considering 700C, take wide tyres - at least 35mm IMHO even if travelling light. If carrying multiple panniers, wider will be better.

Note that mountain roads will often be rough or might have suffered damage from landslides, and that there can be horrendous thorns near Leh and in the Nubra Valley, so something like one of the Schwalbe Marathons (of whichever variety you prefer) in 50mm or wider is a good idea. FWIW, I used 1.4" tyres on the KKH in 2000 and would not do this again, and many roads in the Indian Himalaya and Nepal can be rougher than the KKH, depending on landslides and also how recently the road was resurfaced.

It looks like some more of the KKH fell into the Indus a couple of years ago, and that the Manali-Leh road might be considerably worse than when I was there in 2009, however, please bear in mind that the BRO in India do wonders rebuilding and resurfacing roads, and conversely that flooding and landslips can destroy them very rapidly.

crogthomas

Twelve years ago I did a trip that sounds similar to the one you are planning. Myself and two similarly confused idiots bought bicycles in Lhasa, rode to Everest Base camp on the Friendship Highway and then continued over the border to Nepal and finished in Kathmandu.
One of my cycling companions wrote a short ‘how to’ guide which favours humour over technical accuracy, but you might find it useful all the same.
http://h2g2.com/dna/h2g2/A423262

To answer your specific questions:
Tibet (well China) has opened up to the idea of tourism so the paperwork issues are usually resolvable, but I echo the comments above about being prepared to change plans at short notice. This summer, for example, China closed the Tibetan border completely for a month to prevent media coverage of potential protests during the communist party celebrations. If it appeals, there are cycle touring companies that run trips in Tibet, which might ease the bureaucracy somewhat.

The main road in Tibet, the Friendship Highway, is now surfaced (for the Olympics in 2008) and apparently quite good, but the side roads to EBC are not, so a sturdy (mountain) bike is certainly recommended. Boulders the size of footballs would not be uncommon. The roads in Nepal suffer from the climate, varying from mud baths to perfectly smooth asphalt roads. Again a strong bike would be favoured, and front suspension desirable, but not essential.

I’ve heard that things have changed a little since I was there, but feel free to contact me directly if you’d like to talk over your plans. One thing’s for certain, you won’t ever forget it!

andrew_s

When I went in 2001 with a CTC group, although the Friendship Highway was theoretically open, in practical terms you needed to play the game: travel Lhasa towards Kathmandu, and hire a Landcruiser with driver and minder.
Before we left Lhasa there were 2 other couples on solo trips - one ended up hiring the Landcruiser to accompany them, and the other set off without the official permits and got turned back. It's obviously possible to travel just on the bikes: people do, but if you are on a fixed duration trip and haven't got the time to spend a week tracking down a cooperative tourist police officer each time you change area, it's chancy. It was also a flat no entry by bike at the Nepal border (Kodari/Zhangmu).
If you've only got a month or so available, you are probably better off going with one of the organised groups - Redspokes seem best.

At the time, the highway was a gravel road after the first 50 miles or so. I used a rigid 26" wheel bike with Marathon XR 1.75". One person had narrow 1.25" tyres, and was generally OK. A lot of (or most) the main highway is now tarmaced. The rest will still be gravel road, apart from the track direct from a few miles downstream of Rongbuk to Tingri (rather than retracing over the Pang La). This had a few sandy sections and one bit that was big (6-8") cobbles for a half mile or so, but was otherwise quite simple.
We went in October - dry and sunny, +10 by day down to -15 or so at night, quite strong headwinds on occasion.

jc4lab

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incurab1e

Thanks loads for all the replies so far

We have established the following:

* Visas and travel in Tibet will be a giant ballache, but hopefully not impossible.
* We'll ride Steel frame based MTB's with front shocks, cable based disc brakes and some LBS hand built wheels
* It will be awesome


Does anyone know if China will let us hire guides that might either ride with us, or come in some other form of transport that isn't land cruiser? We'd really like to do it as unsupported as we can and aren't keen on having a way out of carrying our gear when things get tough

karnali

I can offer a bit of info on Nepal. Lived there for 3 years between 03 and 06. Biked a lot around Kathmandu, Pokhara and some on the terai. Nepal is a fantastic country to explore by bike, i would recommend either a rigid mtb or a hardatil with a coil fork. Cable discs or v's if you go for discs take spare rotors just in case although these can be bought in Ktm. I had a year on a rigid inbred and that was ideal. For touring either panniers or possibly easier is a bob style trailer. Not many paved roads and the ones there are tend to turn to dirt as you head away form a town. If the bike is your rpide and joy wrap the frame well with protective tape as invariably it will end up on top of a bus or vehicle at some time and may get a it scratched.

Ktm, there is literally thousands of km's of biking that an be done in and around the valley form 2 hour mtb blasts to multi day trips. lovely overnight trips to dulikhel, nagarkot to view the himalayas or out to the langtang region for a few days trekking all possible. There are 2 bike shops in Thamel called Dawn til Dusk run by brothers Sonam and Chimmi Gurung, very helpful with repairs and riding. They can origanise rides if you want them , sort out guides if you want them, Sonam rides 4 mornings a week early doors anif you get chatting to him he is more than happy for folk to join him for the costs of a cup of tea (10p). website here http://www.dtd.com.np/index.php from my understanding LHassa to Ktm is just a nightmare without guides and can cost a whole lot more in bribes to gov officials than it does to hire a guide etc. an email to these guys coudl sort that out.

Further afield from ktm the ride to Pokhara is a pleasnat 2 day trip by road or a killer 1 day trip. Ther is a nice resoirt spot about half way with pool and restaurant, the road does get busy with buses and trucks but most of these leave early morning and travel the road at the same time, so avoiding that time and the road is alot quieter, it is posible to do it off road over about 5 days as well. from pokhara the road to Tansen is a beautiful ride and then onto Butwal. Butwal will see you on the terai and its flat and hot. However this is the road to take on to Nepalgunj ( a bit of a hole but does have a nce guesthouse from here is 100km's to Bardia National park for safari and then on to Mahendranagar and into India. If only staying in Nepal i would spend some time exploring around KTm. then on to Pokhara for the same. THere is a french Corsican who has a MTb business in Nepal who is very knowledgable about the riding there and in the Annapurna's as are the folks from Dawn til Dusk. Then ride up to tansen and retrace your steps.

Most of the folk who ride with Sonam on a morning are MTB guides and a favourable rte can be had in negoitiation with them and Sonam for day or overnight multi day trips.

Avoid carrying anything on your back and enjoy. If you go off into the wilderness there is alsways soemwhere to eat and most folk would put you up over night for the equivalent of a a couple of quid, on the whole very friendly people.