Orange CarbO

GT_Dave

Hi Guys,

Orange CarbO for £1800 at my LBS, do I or dont I?

As a MBR I like Orange but is the road bike any good? Ive heard rumours that its over priced but for a run of just 60 bikes is it worth buying and saving as a collectable?

All thoughts/opinions welcome

Monty Dog

From what I can see it's a generic Taiwanese frame with a paintjob, so depend on how much premium you're prepared to pay? As for collectability? Hmm, generally that only applies to products of certain marque and typically applies to top end / pro team stuff.

GT_Dave

Ive had a look at some of the other forums, your opinion seems right up there with most others mate to be honest, just a generic frame with Orange Stickers!

I think I might save my money!

alihisgreat

Monty Dog wrote:

From what I can see it's a generic Taiwanese frame with a paintjob, so depend on how much premium you're prepared to pay? As for collectability? Hmm, generally that only applies to products of certain marque and typically applies to top end / pro team stuff.

It would get lots of jealous looks at the cake stop though?


you could always get one of the chinese carbon suppliers to paint your frame in the orange colour scheme?! but be prepared for people to hate

tim_wand

I was mad into Orange as a younger MTB rider had everything they did, Clockworks, C16 r's, P 7's Various Fives a Patriot and Numerous O 2's and E8's (Still have a five to this day and always looking for a good retro P7.)

I really brought into that Steve and Chester two guys from Halifax all british thing, But they ve moved on and just like everything else it all comes out of Taiwan.

So when they Brought an Ally road bike out about 15 years ago Road O or something like that (It was bright Orange) I seriously lusted after it, but even then you could see it was basically a double butted 7005 series alloy frame very similiar to the Ribble .

I ve seen the New Carbo and as previous posters have pointed out its just a generic chinese carbon frame a la Ribble or Planet X (Nothing wrong with that, I now have the same love of Planet X , I once had for Orange) but they are charging a premium for the Orange Name.

As other posters have pointed out, Road collectability is more about the Artisan craft of the Frame Builder and not the Brand (Unless Italian). It wont be worth much in the future to justify the near £800 Premium your paying for something available now with similar spec.

rolf_f

tim wand wrote:

I really brought into that Steve and Chester two guys from Halifax all british thing, But they ve moved on and just like everything else it all comes out of Taiwan.

Not so - the hard tails are made in Taiwan but the full suspension bikes are folded up out of bits of metal in Halifax. So even if you buy an Orange hardtail, you are still supporting British frame building even if slightly indirectly.

petemadoc

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

Monty Dog wrote:

From what I can see it's a generic Taiwanese frame with a paintjob, so depend on how much premium you're prepared to pay? As for collectability? Hmm, generally that only applies to products of certain marque and typically applies to top end / pro team stuff.

It would get lots of jealous looks at the cake stop though?


you could always get one of the chinese carbon suppliers to paint your frame in the orange colour scheme?! but be prepared for people to hate

Big +1 to the Chinese paint job idea. If you like the orange paint job and want the admiring looks at the cake stop but don't want to pay an extra 800 smackaroos for silly marketing it is a great idea. Plus you'd get to spec everything as you wish.

Or you could just choose something that offers better value from your LBS if you want some after service etc.

tim_wand

Rolf F apologies if your right on the fact that Orange Full sussers are still made/fabricated in the Uk. Other than my retention of a Five , I dropped out of the whole MTB scene when I moved from Yorkshire to Lincolnshire (And had to put the bike in the car for a 50 mile round trip to find anywhere descent to ride)

I would still swear that my Five is just an O2 (Cause its ally) P7 style (Yer I know thats steel) front end with a box section single pivot swing arm.

therefore they must be sourcing at least half the frame and fabrication out of the same factory. My Five is circa 2006 and even though I brought it second hand and reconned it myself there isnt a single made in Halifax badge anywhere. Unlike the old days when they used to be on the seat tube

.


Lord forgive me for posting a picture of a mountain bike in the road section.

Badger0367

Felt AR5, Pinarello Fp Due 105, Colnago Ace 105, Cannondale Synapse Carbon 105 Compact, BMC Promachine SLC01 105,
Wilier Izoard XP 105.

Unless these are on sale they all cost around the same as the Orange £2K ish. What do they all have in common? [b]They all run Shimano 105 components. [/b]

Their are loads more road bikes with a similiar specification, with costs above and below the Orange price tag!!!!!!!!!!!

It just seems to be the usual knocking British design and knocking British Companies (Orange) and their customer base.

Do people say the same if you ride a Specialized Stumpjumper and have a 'Spez roadie' in the garage........... Erm I think not. Are Specialized, Lapierre, Trek etc all over priced as all have mtb's in the same price bracket and spec as Orange kit hhmmm.

You never know try an Orange Carb-O, you might be surprised..........

ShutUpLegs

Badger0367 wrote:

Felt AR5, Pinarello Fp Due 105, Colnago Ace 105, Cannondale Synapse Carbon 105 Compact, BMC Promachine SLC01 105,
Wilier Izoard XP 105.

Unless these are on sale they all cost around the same as the Orange £2K ish. What do they all have in common? [b]They all run Shimano 105 components. [/b]

Their are loads more road bikes with a similiar specification, with costs above and below the Orange price tag!!!!!!!!!!!

It just seems to be the usual knocking British design and knocking British Companies (Orange) and their customer base.

Do people say the same if you ride a Specialized Stumpjumper and have a 'Spez roadie' in the garage........... Erm I think not. Are Specialized, Lapierre, Trek etc all over priced as all have mtb's in the same price bracket and spec as Orange kit hhmmm.

You never know try an Orange Carb-O, you might be surprised..........

You need to post some more

Dick Scruttock

Or just buy a similar generic frame'd bike from Ribble running 105 and save around £800.

I would take any of those bikes on your list over the Orange.

Beatmaker

Badger0367 wrote:

Felt AR5, Pinarello Fp Due 105, Colnago Ace 105, Cannondale Synapse Carbon 105 Compact, BMC Promachine SLC01 105,
Wilier Izoard XP 105.

Unless these are on sale they all cost around the same as the Orange £2K ish. What do they all have in common? [b]They all run Shimano 105 components. [/b]

Their are loads more road bikes with a similiar specification, with costs above and below the Orange price tag!!!!!!!!!!!

It just seems to be the usual knocking British design and knocking British Companies (Orange) and their customer base.

Do people say the same if you ride a Specialized Stumpjumper and have a 'Spez roadie' in the garage........... Erm I think not. Are Specialized, Lapierre, Trek etc all over priced as all have mtb's in the same price bracket and spec as Orange kit hhmmm.

You never know try an Orange Carb-O, you might be surprised..........

Every single bike you mention is a model which will have incurred R&D costs, as they are all designed in-house by the brand. The big issue most people have with the Carb-O is it is an open mold frame, which you can purchase for considerably less cash with the fancy paint job and Orange head badge.

lostboysaint

Steve and Chester?

Don't you mean Lester?

Monty Dog

If there was one shred of 'British design" in that Orange bike, then all credit to them, but cannot see why it is worth a penny more than a similar bike from Ribble or Planet-X - or are you trying to say that a British MTB brand has any cache in the road market? I'm all for design and innovation, but buying a $300 frame from China and putting your stickers on it isn't exactly tricky.

Badger0367

A lot of manufactures use mass produced carbon and alloy frames sourced from the Asian Continent, all are generally done to the clients specification for either a road or Mtb frame sets. Specification being that of carbon type and layout. Most of the sub 2k machines are generally oriental in production origin. So on that emphasis a generic frame is not necessarily a generic frame, but may have come from a generic mould.

But looking at other manufactures frames from the likes of Ribble( who are excellent value and quality and if had an Italian name, would command a triple price hike) and others, all are different in their design. Be it in rear stays and their upper mounting points to the front triangle or head design.

In my opinion ALL bikes are way over priced and its because of idiots like 'us' that keep buying them, so maintaining these ridiculous high prices. How can a pedal bike cost more than a motorbike (new) or a car (new)? But someone will say quantity.....NUTS. Where just mugs.

Its the usual kids thing of: 'I don't like it.......... but dear you haven't tried it' lol.

We all pay OUR money and we all make OUR choice

JUST GET OUT & RIDE X

ShutUpLegs

Badger0367 wrote:

A lot of manufactures use mass produced carbon and alloy frames sourced from the Asian Continent, all are generally done to the clients specification for either a road or Mtb frame sets. Specification being that of carbon type and layout. Most of the sub 2k machines are generally oriental in production origin. So on that emphasis a generic frame is not necessarily a generic frame, but may have come from a generic mould.

But looking at other manufactures frames from the likes of Ribble( who are excellent value and quality and if had an Italian name, would command a triple price hike) and others, all are different in their design. Be it in rear stays and their upper mounting points to the front triangle or head design.

In my opinion ALL bikes are way over priced and its because of idiots like 'us' that keep buying them, so maintaining these ridiculous high prices. How can a pedal bike cost more than a motorbike (new) or a car (new)? But someone will say quantity.....NUTS. Where just mugs.

Its the usual kids thing of: 'I don't like it.......... but dear you haven't tried it' lol.

We all pay OUR money and we all make OUR choice

JUST GET OUT & RIDE X

Cool story, bro

Beatmaker

A lot of manufactures use mass produced carbon and alloy frames sourced from the Asian Continent, all are generally done to the clients specification for either a road or Mtb frame sets. Specification being that of carbon type and layout. Most of the sub 2k machines are generally oriental in production origin. So on that emphasis a generic frame is not necessarily a generic frame, but may have come from a generic mould.

But looking at other manufactures frames from the likes of Ribble( who are excellent value and quality and if had an Italian name, would command a triple price hike) and others, all are different in their design. Be it in rear stays and their upper mounting points to the front triangle or head design

That's an argument generally used by manufacturers using an open mold design and trying to justify charging a premium for a product. I'm not saying it doesn't occasionally happen, but it's far from always happening.

Badger0367

Beatmaker wrote:

That's an argument generally used by manufacturers using an open mold design and trying to justify charging a premium for a product. I'm not saying it doesn't occasionally happen, but it's far from always happening.

This open mould or generic mold what Orange have allegedly used is very special as the Carbo has different rear stays and butting points, main down tube, head tube etc. This must be becausee the Carbo is Orange designed with assiotiated R&D costs. As the frame decal clearly states designed in Halifax, but not built in Halifax like the full suss bikes.

For example the following styling cues which have been lifted from their full sus and hardtail range: The rear stays mold into one piece as per the P7, Elite hardtails etc, the carbon down tube has been creased as per the Five, Alpine full sus etc. The head tube in style is Patriot like and finally, the profile of the top tube is square ish in profile and I haven't a clue where that comes from!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As per the manufacture of carbon frame sets, most but not all are produced by the two biggest players in this area, they are: Advanced Technologies & Giant (YES Giant Cycles). So if you ride a cycle that costs less then £3-£4k, the general rule is they are sub-contracted out for production. This in turn gives the original company its margin and allows the cycle chain stores or your LBS to make their substantial profit margin.

As per my ramblings of 6th August we are all being ripped off. You may 'not' realise but these margins are HUGE. For example a £2K cycle has a £900 - £1000 profit margin for the shop and the more expensive the bike the profit margins leap up and up. Again for example a £5000 bike has a profit margin for the shop of ££2000 - £2500. This is why their are such huge discounts at model year end, as their is loads of margin to play with. So remember that when you next get ripped off, sorry I mean buy a bike LOL

Mum, I don't like it................... But dear! You haven't tried it LOL

JUST GET OUT & RIDE X

cougie

Shops need to make a profit. Wages, rent, utility bills all cost.

GT_Dave

As the original poster I just thought I would let you know I didnt buy the CarbO I got a second hand Giant Defy 3 instead in almost new condition for a lot less and love it!

Coincidentaly the CarbO I first looked at is still for sale ;-)

Dave

Badger0367

God that argument is so lame wages rent blah blah for ridiculous profit margins.

Just so you can have a glimmer of information the majority of cycles sold are sub £1k i.e below. For example an LBS in Staly-Vagas doesn't have a bike in above £500 and they have been their years so they seem to be happy with £250 average profit per cycle. They drive a Audi Q7 so must doing OK, I think!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The cycle to work scheme is based on the majority of sub £1k cycles. Giving you a saving of VAT and the rest in tax and N.I. If your company has a credit license you can spend £10k which would bring the cost down to you to sub £5k.

Ever heard of Wallmart? STACK IT HIGH SELL IT CHEAP logo. why is £2.5k acceptable profit for a £5k bike and don't say derr wages, rent blah blah blah......... it isn't.

Your, we are mugs in the branding and name game of the advertiser. Bikes are just so over priced. Yes I'm also a victim/idiot of marketing and the name game as I have a £4.25k Orange Alpine in the garage and as you may suppose, also the Orange carbO with a drive train up-grade to Sram Red and Mavic Ksyrium wheel-set, this is my introduction back to the road scene after a fair few years away.

Shame you didn't buy the Orange carbO and was unable to think for your self. Mine looks fantastic hung on the garage wall, I will ride it one day but at the moment its hung their like a piece of artwork. Sorry I've done around 1500 meters which I found it to be very responsive, stiff (overtly) and with the specification changes a lot lighter. I know 1500m is nothing should have done40 - 60 kilometers really.

Yes, on buying both cycles, my ring still stings. NOT just because their Orange as any manufacturer in this price bracket, selling via a chain or LBS is making way to much profit margin. Don't come back with R&D costs too. Honda motor-bike £4.1k R&D costs too hhmmm.

JUST GET OUT & RIDE X

andyxm

Badger- any chance of getting hold of some of the drugs you have clearly been taking???

Badger0367

Mussels they do it every time; my head does a 360 and that's the end of all sense.................... lol

JUST GET OUT & RIDE X

GT_Dave

Badger0367 wrote:

Shame you didn't buy the Orange carbO and was unable to think for your self. Mine looks fantastic hung on the garage wall,

Think for myself? Bore off!

I obviously just have less money and more sense than you! Perhaps you should remove it from the wall and as you say "JUST GET OUT AND RIDE!"

mallott

Badger, i can assure you profits are nowhere near what you are quoting. The reason end of line models can be reduced that much is when the factory has an overstock towards the end of the year, blows it out to the distributor who then blows it out to the shop who then pass it all on to you.

Then take into account, rent, rates, shop insurance, water, gas , electric, card processing charges, card reader rental, act membership, advertising, public liability, accountants and legal fees, security, phone and internet, tools, website costs and more that escapes me at the moment.

After all that, the lbs may want to take a bit for all the hours they put in at the shop.

Out of all retail business, bike shops have one of the lowest profit margins. Go easy on the shops eh?

dg74

Interesting this. Just been to my LBS for supplies for my bike business and they have the Orange Carbo in stock in a 56.

Really nice bike but the frame & forks (and I've no reason to doubt the LBS store, they've been there for years and years and are very well known) is made by Easton who also supply the finishing kit except the full 105 groupset.