Yeti SB66 = Decathlon Rockrider?

bails87

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/bikes/mountain/product/review-btwin-rockrider-91-12-45756]B'Twin Rockrider 9.2 Review[/url] wrote:

The aluminium frame features an unusual twin-link suspension design that Decathlon call ‘NEUF’. It’s similar to Yeti’s Switch system, but came first:

Rockrider NEUF link:
Yeti Switch Link:

So the Yeti SB66 'superbike' is a rip off of a bike made by a French bargain sports chain?

lawman

thats like saying a revelation xx world cup is like an old RS mag 21, just because they look the same dont mean they do the same job as well

bails87

lawman wrote:

thats like saying a revelation xx world cup is like an old RS mag 21, just because they look the same dont mean they do the same job as well

I never said it did

It would be like Fox being celebrated for inventing the dual air system while fanbois fawn and Rockshox sit in the corner saying "err, guys....guys.....we've been doing this for ages.....hello?"

A lot of the big fuss about the SB66 was because of the 'magical' new switch link, which it turns out isn't their idea, and isn't new! I'm sure it's a good bike, and you're right about the carbon one looking like a Mojo, but still, you can't really give Yeti credit for the Switch link.

Yeti are claiming the patent for it though, maybe Decathlon didn't patent it, or only in Europe?

tom_howard

Personally, I'd be royally gutted if I'd just forked out for the Yeti! but still defend it to the hilt and claim dozens of reasons why its better...

Goes to show, good design costs nothing...

milko9000

GT have i-drive too... this isn't really a new comparison. And Santa Cruz are suing Yeti for the patent, saying it's actually nicking their VPP design? So yeah, who knows.

Disclaimer: I have an SB-66. I really like it. Had a ride yesterday that finally seemed to click together for the last pieces of the loving-it puzzle, I'm in tune with the bike again. Haven't ridden a RockRider. I didn't buy it for the word 'switch' on the side or some idea that they did it first, more from the rider reviews I was able to find. And then the looks. And then the customer service. And then I guess somewhere down the list the idea that they've something reserved for a few years that might then become more popular, which would probably make it a classic bike to have owned.

Stevo_666

Bails, I saw some heated debate elsewhere on the interweb about this - can't remember where it was or what the outcome was though, you'll have to use your google-fu....

ilovedirt

Tom Howard wrote:

Goes to show, good design costs nothing...

Good design costs a LOT. Just some manufacturers choose to charge more for it

bails87

Stevo: I'm not that fussed, I just found it funny, like if Santa Cruz were ripping off Boardman

supersonic

The NEUF frame is lighter too... The 66 is massively overhyped, the sus is nothing new nor anything special.

jairaj

Super are you still looking for that bike split to sell on? You could buy the Decathlon, fit a better shock and spray paint it turquoise and then charge twice as much for it.

Stevo_666

bails87 wrote:

Stevo: I'm not that fussed, I just found it funny, like if Santa Cruz were ripping off Boardman

Me neither any more. Have to admit I got a bit fired up about the bike but got hacked off with the lack of stock & demo bikes and am not regretting buying something else :-)

The Northern Monkey

If you do a search on google about the SB66, almost every discussion has another brand of bike that already has this type of suspension... I think I'm up to about 5 now!

As Super mentiones, its just that Yeti have the cash to push and advertise this as a new design.

I think I read something from Brant saying that Yeti have had to buy a 3 year patent licence to be able to use the design.

supersonic

Yep, as much as other manufacturers push nonsense suspension terminology, this set up looks to be the king of them. All this 'switch' and 'inflection' stuff are just buzzwords designed to make the public think the system is doing something special - the eccentric bearing house could be replaced with a simple link. Yep, that is right folks, this isn't some single pivot with a moving pivot point (as many think it is), but a twin link 4 bar system. The fact that the upper link 'switches' direction means absolutely nothing! Some versions of the DW link, Marin Quad, some VPPs and many others do the same. Where the IC is depends on the other link too. Weagle never thought to mention his did the same, just the way it is for some axle paths!

So why do they use this eccentric bearing? Well, I think the first reason is is pulls attention to this switch thing, and works for marketing. Secondly to try and bypass patents. That said, they can end up being stiffer laterally, and work for some space restrained designed (a version of DW has 2 eccentrics for example - but to reiterate, techncally where movement is concerned, they work the same as a link with one end centred on the middle of the where the larger outer bearing would be).

So why have SC sued them? This is pretty laughable too, they seem to be protecting their own hyperbole! How you can patent the direction of rotating links is beyond me. They could have chosen many brands to have a pop at, but I think they are targeting their main 'boutique' contender.

However... despite all this, to some it is going to be a very good bike that works well. This is essentiually what suspension is about, finding a set up you like. As I have said many times, there is no one best system, it is all about trade offs.

NEUF - as has been mentioned previously, it looks similar but actually behaves very differently in terms of ICs, axle path and leverage ratios. Not better or worse, just different.

£2000 for a 7.5lbs frame? No thanks Yeti!

delcol

super can i take it we wont see you at the next yeti tribe meeting then

supersonic

I'd get beheaded! But I might buy a SB66 as an anchor.

delcol

well i not going then,,, think i'l join the orange owners club instead.... :roll:

benpinnick

Is it not more likely that SC are suing Yeti as the design comes from two of their ex lead-engineers? Little bit of ex-employee bashing maybe?

supersonic

Could well be! Is annoying though, all these silly patents that cover tiny and often subjective details. like to see the courts untangle this one. One thing is for sure - nobody wins.

benpinnick

+ potato

supersonic

Linkage sus has come as far as it can. We know about ICs, axle paths, what they do etc. Inventing silly words and patenting them does nobody any favours.

The next big sus tech will be computerised - cadence and pressure sensors coupled to damping.

jairaj

Do you mean active suspension?

Won't the extra servos and batteries required to run a system make the bike heavier. No idea how much extra weight this will add upto but do you think this will have a place in XC bikes?

supersonic

Is something for the future as technology gets smaller, but can certainly see it happening in 5-10 years. I envisage a touch screen console that is stem mounted where a simple tap will configure suspension, wirelessly!

Chunkers1980

Sounds like a lot of sensors required, further moving away from does it fit type questions to does it fit and have the correct sensor!

Might be as simple as cars and iron filings in the fluid to change the viscocity.

supersonic

Aye, that will happen at some point too! They have to keep moving to sell stuff.

I wrote an article for WMB on the future of biking a couple of years ago, will have to find it.

jairaj

Aren't Cannondale already working on something like that with their Lefty fork, IIRC they call their system Simon?

it feels a while since I last heard about it, wondering if they got any where with that project.

supersonic

Yep, is interesting stuff. Also remember the K2 SMART fork?!

1mancity2

jairaj wrote:

Aren't Cannondale already working on something like that with their Lefty fork, IIRC they call their system Simon?

it feels a while since I last heard about it, wondering if they got any where with that project.

I read this article around 12months ago maybe, fantastic engineering, but will it ever makes it to the consumer.

delcol

we seen some peeple in whistler bikepark last with laptops and a bike covered in sensors and wires and some kind of box onit,, after every few laps they would plug it into the laptop and look at the data...

dont think he was called simon though. :roll:

lawman

i think the whole "smart suspension" is gonna come from some kind of iron filing type thing, i cant see how electronics can be consistent enough, especially if you tried to mate front and rear systems to work in tandem, it just wouldnt work imo, but agree with sonic, we know all there is to know about actual layouts and pivots etc, te advance must come from the shock and fork end of developments, although franly, stuff like fox's new smart pump is a step in the right direction, although i think home tuning would be the biggest advancement, rather than having to send your shock off to tf or mojo, simply telling your shock you want abit more low speed compression damping via a laptop would be awesome

Chunkers1980

lawman wrote:

i think the whole "smart suspension" is gonna come from some kind of iron filing type thing, i cant see how electronics can be consistent enough

It will still be 'electronic' via an electro magnet switching on and off but the trade off will be powering it somehow harvesting spinning stuff and perhaps as daft as it may sound, wind, or you'll just need massive battery power (However small it will be then)

stubs

Someone needs to invent suspension that works via a ringpiece sensor. When the trail gets tough and your ringpiece starts to twitch the suspension gets longer and has more sag. When the nasty stuff has gone and your ring stops twitching it can revert back to XC standard.