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Millartime - says Cav

tremaynetremayne Posts: 378
edited January 2012 in Pro race
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_s ... efault.stm

DM deserves a second chance and should be available for London 2012 - says the World Champion, Mark Cavendish.

- The UK stance is in conflict and contrary to the relevant governing bodies, which view his ban as 'spent'.

- He did a smashing job as 'road capitan' for the successful UK bid for glory in Denmark.

- He appears very reformed and unlike some, is very honest in regards to his past and the monumental fall from grace he experienced.

- He sits on the WADA atheletes panel.

Personally I think it would be crazy to hinder our chances (esp when any other country would give him a spot) and if Cav wants him, then we should do what's neccessary.

Be great to see him there next year with his arms lolling over the front of the handlebars (time trial stylie) giving it 100% for his UK team.
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  • ToeKneeToeKnee Posts: 376
    tremayne wrote:
    Personally I think it would be crazy to hinder our chances ...
    I prefer to stick to the moral high-ground rather than bending rules to favour our (GB) chances. He knew the rules and likely repercussions when he doped ... now he has to live by that decision.
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  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 22,902
    ToeKnee wrote:
    He knew the rules and likely repercussions when he doped ... now he has to live by that decision.

    Similarly, the BOA knew the rules and likely repercussions when the signed the WADA code... now they have to live by that decision, (not make up their own rules).
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • I thought that Jez Hunt was road captain, at least he was rewarded with another (1/2) season with Sky for his ride at the worlds. The team did the job Rod and Cav told them to do.

    Millar knew the penalty when he doped, he's made loads of money out of the sport both pre and post doping and has done honest riders out of placings and team rides. Good riddance to him.
  • RichN95 wrote:
    ToeKnee wrote:
    He knew the rules and likely repercussions when he doped ... now he has to live by that decision.

    Similarly, the BOA knew the rules and likely repercussions when the signed the WADA code... now they have to live by that decision, (not make up their own rules).

    +1
  • tremaynetremayne Posts: 378
    ToeKnee - I agree with sticking to the rules. The main point is that the actual Olympic rules mean that Millar should race. Not allowing him to participate is against the governing body rules and ultimately is causing BOA issues now (as athletes such as Dwain Chambers and possibly Dave Millar decide to take legal steps)

    Rod - Good riddance to him? He was right there during the world champs fella! And if only it was ever as simple as the riders doing what the manager tells them to do (world champ history is littered with examples where this simply did not happen). Cav has singled him out as one of the first names on the sheet. It's not about money - if it were about money, why would he really be so bothered. Its about pride - and (perhaps belatedly) he now has some. I say let him ride!
  • Let him ride a bike.

    Just never in a GB jersey. He's disgraced the sport once, don't give him another chance.
  • afx237viafx237vi Posts: 12,630
    I thought that Jez Hunt was road captain, at least he was rewarded with another (1/2) season with Sky for his ride at the worlds. The team did the job Rod and Cav told them to do.

    Millar knew the penalty when he doped, he's made loads of money out of the sport both pre and post doping and has done honest riders out of placings and team rides. Good riddance to him.

    Who are you punishing by not allowing Millar to ride the Olympics? Answer: not David Millar.
  • It is a punishment for Millar. We (GB) have plenty of alternatives that aren't cheats.

    Cav is saying what he has been told to say by the Millar corner.
  • I think that we've seen enough of Cav to believe that he speaks his own mind so I doubt that he would need, or allow himself, to be anybody's mouthpiece.

    I'm tired of the hang em high brigade mauling the likes of Millar. Legally, he can ride, as Chambers can run. It is only a question of whether the right fights take place before the Games or the the team selections take place.

    Suggesting that we give up on proper rehabilitation is very dangerous and naive. We probably know more about the problem and how to best deal with it as a result of catching out the likes of DM and their post conviction conduct. You might not like seeing him in a GB jersey but it has happened several times since his ban ended and with or without the Olympics it probably won't be the last time.

    It is surely preferable to test, convict, punish, rehabilitate and then judge on merit than to attempt to make an impossible black and white judgment. Life just isn't that simple.
  • I think that we've seen enough of Cav to believe that he speaks his own mind so I doubt that he would need, or allow himself, to be anybody's mouthpiece.

    I'm tired of the hang em high brigade mauling the likes of Millar. Legally, he can ride, as Chambers can run. It is only a question of whether the right fights take place before the Games or the the team selections take place.

    Suggesting that we give up on proper rehabilitation is very dangerous and naive. We probably know more about the problem and how to best deal with it as a result of catching out the likes of DM and their post conviction conduct. You might not like seeing him in a GB jersey but it has happened several times since his ban ended and with or without the Olympics it probably won't be the last time.

    It is surely preferable to test, convict, punish, rehabilitate and then judge on merit than to attempt to make an impossible black and white judgment. Life just isn't that simple.

    +1 all of the above.

    And as for Cav saying what he is told to say, I doubt that very much, not only is he famous for saying it how it is, he is also very close to David Millar, Cav wants to win gold at the olympics, therefor he wants the best team, the best team would include Millar. Simple facts.
  • Ron StuartRon Stuart Posts: 1,242
    RichN95 wrote:
    ToeKnee wrote:
    He knew the rules and likely repercussions when he doped ... now he has to live by that decision.

    Similarly, the BOA knew the rules and likely repercussions when the signed the WADA code... now they have to live by that decision, (not make up their own rules).

    +1

    + Another

    Hoy's rant in another topic ( Chris Hoy's view on drugs and the Olympics ) was short sighted; obviously his perspective of the Olympics as being the principal achievement is how he sees it from his track sprint view and success has gained BC a lot of funding. However what he doesn't realise is that it isn't the same in all Olympic Sports or events for that matter.
    The principal achievement in cycle road racing is the TDF, Giro, World Champs well Cav won the Worlds with Millar as road captain in one of the most prestigious cycle events in any one year and we all celebrated here in Britain as we did for Hoy on the track, young, old, male, female all followers of sport and the bike, also born out in SPOTY by taking half the total votes was "our" Cav. Why when in a slightly less prestigious event Millar gets banned by some farts in the BOA. It is fundamentally wrong that other countries can enter athletes under a different set of rules to our own in the same event.
    When the BOA signed up to the WADA rules they agreed to abide by those rules not make there own up as they go along.
    If it is life bans that rid the sport of cheats then it should be life bans from all competitions, my driving license permits me to drive any car not just certain cars and so should an athletes license allow him/her to compete in any WADA accredited event.
    The fundamental right as to whether an athlete should return or not to full time sport activity should be left in the hands of those issuing the bans in the first place not to some Quasi-Autonomous Non-Governmental Organisation in another country. :x
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 46,734 Lives Here
    afx237vi wrote:
    I thought that Jez Hunt was road captain, at least he was rewarded with another (1/2) season with Sky for his ride at the worlds. The team did the job Rod and Cav told them to do.

    Millar knew the penalty when he doped, he's made loads of money out of the sport both pre and post doping and has done honest riders out of placings and team rides. Good riddance to him.

    Who are you punishing by not allowing Millar to ride the Olympics? Answer: not David Millar.

    Team sports in the olympics.

    An uncessary complication...
  • Think everyone who has said don't let him ride as he is a cheat has missed he point that David Millar has already stated he won't oppose the desicions, and admits freely he cheated and now opposes drugs in sport etc. It's Cav that is trying to get them to change their desicions and let him race.
    My own opinion is all cases such as this should be looked at individual cases, he has demonstrated remorse, taken all the bans placed upon him so if the British Olympic cycle team wanted him on the team I would have no problem. We can forgive but never forget. Just IMHO
  • CrankbrotherCrankbrother Posts: 1,695
    It could be worse ... We could take the same stance as Spain and have the 'lalala can't hear you' attitude to riders doping ...

    I hate anything nationalistic and the Olympics is the sporting pinnacle of that so my ire is somewhat blinkered ... But I do think that GB should be taking the kind of pro-active response that Italy are with tneir dopers ... It might be challenged in court but it sends out the right message of 'you're not wanted' ... Even national treasures like Basso are being given short shrift over in Italy ... a better example could not be being better set ...

    Sadly, most inhabitants of the uk forget any ideals or principles far too quickly when they think there is something in it for them ... and weirdly, in this instance, only Cav/Millar is gaining ... Unless you are on the proposed team or work for GB cycling there is only ultruistic glory ... so why bother 'allowing' DM to race? ... Let him sit it out, give someone more deserving a chance and be able to chastise countries like Spain for allowing the sport to be ruined without being hypocritical ...
  • iainf72iainf72 Posts: 15,774
    It could be worse ... We could take the same stance as Spain and have the 'lalala can't hear you' attitude to riders doping ...

    You could argue BOA are taking exactly the same stance as the Spaniards by ignoring the rules of the charter they signed up too :P
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • cal_stewartcal_stewart Posts: 1,839
    To be fair I'm not a millar fan. He's just the same as any other doper. Lets not pretend that would be clean if he was not court. To say he's still liked by the peleton says to me he has not told anything mind blowing to WADA.
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  • shinyhelmutshinyhelmut Posts: 1,341
    To be fair I'm not a millar fan. He's just the same as any other doper. Let's not pretend that he would be clean if he was not caught.

    Millar himself admits this.
  • frenchfighterfrenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Millar is a racer's rider. The sport would be even better to watch if there were a handful more like him.

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  • To be fair I'm not a millar fan. He's just the same as any other doper.

    No he's not. He admitted his offences without failing a test.
    He served his ban and is now outspoken about drug use.
    Comparethat stance to Vino, Valverde, Landis, Hamilton and many others.
    As already mentioned it's not Millar fighting the ban.
    If suffer we must, let's suffer on the heights. (Victor Hugo).
  • zippypablo wrote:
    To be fair I'm not a millar fan. He's just the same as any other doper.

    No he's not. He admitted his offences without failing a test.
    He served his ban and is now outspoken about drug use.
    Comparethat stance to Vino, Valverde, Landis, Hamilton and many others.
    As already mentioned it's not Millar fighting the ban.


    No, it isn't Millar fighting the ban. It's a mate of his who is also represented by his sister who along with DM will do rather nicely financially out of him getting to another olympics. It's all PR and spin to get him allowed to ride, selected and all without him directly having to fight it and thus staying on side as much as he can with those who oppose him. It would be perfect for him if the BOA ban was overturned and he could then be picked by his 'close friend' Dave. The whole scenario is very dodgy.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 22,902
    No, it isn't Millar fighting the ban. It's a mate of his who is also represented by his sister who along with DM will do rather nicely financially out of him getting to another olympics. It's all PR and spin to get him allowed to ride, selected and all without him directly having to fight it and thus staying on side as much as he can with those who oppose him. It would be perfect for him if the BOA ban was overturned and he could then be picked by his 'close friend' Dave. The whole scenario is very dodgy.

    No, it isn't. It's WADA that's fighting the ban. The case has nothing to do with cycling specifically. Millar just stands to be a beneficiary.

    All Cavendish has done is answer a question in an interview.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • tremaynetremayne Posts: 378
    I think the decision on whether the boa ruling gets overturned (by CAS) is due in April? I'm currently going to be quite surprised if it isn't and I think boa are secretly preparing for the worst (as they see it) - ie Dwaine Chambers and Dave Miller.

    I'm totally and utterly against doping but am a firm believer in a level playing field. I also dearly want the (world) Champ to get a gold medal. Just think how much of himself DM would be prepared to give for Cav, if he helps get him to the games....
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 22,902
    tremayne wrote:
    I think the decision on whether the boa ruling gets overturned (by CAS) is due in April? I'm currently going to be quite surprised if it isn't and I think boa are secretly preparing for the worst (as they see it) - ie Dwaine Chambers and Dave Miller.

    I'm sure the BOA know they will lose (after all everyone else knows they will), but they're going to go down publicly clinging to the moral high ground. If they really wanted to make a genuine stand, they could be the first Association to introduce the biological passport across all sports.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • That would cost money though.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 46,734 Lives Here
    That would cost money though.

    The incentives for doing stuff that actually reduces doping versus making a lot of noise and doing the bare minimum are pretty small.
  • shinyhelmutshinyhelmut Posts: 1,341
    The incentives for doing stuff that actually reduces doping versus making a lot of noise and doing the bare minimum are pretty small.

    There is no incentive to actually catch dopers. If none is testing positive then there is no doping problem to explain, just look at tennis, football, rugby etc. etc.
  • Ron StuartRon Stuart Posts: 1,242
    zippypablo wrote:
    To be fair I'm not a millar fan. He's just the same as any other doper.

    No he's not. He admitted his offences without failing a test.
    He served his ban and is now outspoken about drug use.
    Comparethat stance to Vino, Valverde, Landis, Hamilton and many others.
    As already mentioned it's not Millar fighting the ban.

    +1 :wink:
  • Jez monJez mon Posts: 3,809
    Wiggins weighs in...

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympi ... pheld.html

    Apparently “From a moral point of view, from what cycling is trying to do, from what the Olympics stand for, he should never be able to do the Olympics.”
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • Ron StuartRon Stuart Posts: 1,242
    Jez mon wrote:
    Wiggins weighs in...

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympi ... pheld.html

    Apparently “From a moral point of view, from what cycling is trying to do, from what the Olympics stand for, he should never be able to do the Olympics.”

    Yep, sign up to a world wide anti doping charter then when you don't agree with it you introduce your own charter on moral grounds, isn't there just the merest hint of hypocrisy here. Is it this Mr Cross the head of BOA that is rolling out our Star BC riders to do this form of trial by press?
    Personally I would rather Hoy and Wiggins concentrate a lot more on what their much better at and that is performing on their bloody bikes and not in front of the bloody mikes :roll:
  • rebsrebs Posts: 891
    Remember when the BOA put in the rule banning anyone with a drug ban from putting on GB kit in the olympics. I don't rememeber many people saying it was too harsh.

    The WADA code is good but I do agree with the line of. No problem with banned atheletes earning a living. Just you have fortfoitted your right to represent your country in the pinnicle of your sport (yea I know not many agree this is the case with cycling. But it still is something very few cyclists will ever win. A Gold medel is never to be sniffed at after all)

    This I do feel applies to Millar. I have grown to like him espicially over the last 3 years. Great rider, but he has made his choices and has bounced back as a great example of how to turn things around.

    Only reason WADA can't enfource this is because so many countries would object.... but why would they object....?
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