Winning a road race

hairyleg

Hi, looking at doing some road racing next year. I’ve done two TLI crits the end of last year and I’ve got the bug. So looking at getting BC rrl for next year so will be racing in cat 4 races. I’m 42 no spring chicken and riding about 75miles a week plus 1hr swim and racing Cyclocross each week. What else should I be looking at? I’m too old to win a race? Or just Dreaming?.

nochekmate

Actually 'winning' a 4th Cat race may not be that easy since there are always likely to be a few fresh, younger racers who are potentially a bit stronger/faster/fitter than us 40+ riders.

Picking up enough points in a season however to move through to 3rd Cat is a different matter and certainly more than possible, given a bit of ability. You might need to up your training/mileage somewhat though adding in some specific interval work (although Cyclocross will be good training in itself).

okgo

Perfectly possible. Just do the training. I won my first two races through the right training. But you are definatley not too old.

Pseudonym

not too old by a long shot, but on 75 miles a week you'll be lucky to hang on to the bunch until the end of the race, let alone win....

Seriously, at this time of year you should be knocking out that kind of distance on a single day. I know there will be loads of replies now from people saying how they won a premier calendar race on 20 miles a week, but realistically, you need to be doing double what you are doing now and mixing up the effort levels as well.....

hairyleg

Cheers guys might drop the cyclocross in the new year and up the miles on the weekend.

petejuk

Pseudonym wrote:

not too old by a long shot, but on 75 miles a week you'll be lucky to hang on to the bunch until the end of the race, let alone win....

Seriously, at this time of year you should be knocking out that kind of distance on a single day. I know there will be loads of replies now from people saying how they won a premier calendar race on 20 miles a week, but realistically, you need to be doing double what you are doing now and mixing up the effort levels as well.....

Utter nonsense. You don't need to be knocking out 75 miles in a single ride at the moment. The fact that you are riding cross at the moment means that you are doing high intensity riding and therefore doing high mileage as well could be detrimental. Once the cross season finishes, you may want to increase your mileage and lower the intensity up to and into the spring and only ride one long ride (eg 75 miles) once a week. There are a number of good books plus loads of info on the interweb about training regimes. Most work in 4 week blocks with increasing intensity/ mileage.
There are always those on this forum who say 'you should be doing this...' 'you should be doing that...' etc. If you are combining riding with any full time employment, then trying to ride a pro's training programme- especially as a new racer- is likely to leave you burnt out come race season and you'll want to be tailoring your training towards specific events in the race calendar. "Doubling up" mileage and "mixing up" effort is likely to lead to premature burnout and a poor season.

Pseudonym

petejuk wrote:

Utter nonsense. You don't need to be knocking out 75 miles in a single ride at the moment. The fact that you are riding cross at the moment means that you are doing high intensity riding and therefore doing high mileage as well could be detrimental.

in what possible way could it be 'detrimental'..?

News Flash - "road races often contain a mix of high mileage and high intensity." Nah, seriously -Pete's right - carry on doing 75 a week....

okgo

Can't imagine you'd get far with 75 miles a
Week. But thinking about the miles I do each week (200-300) probably only 75 of them are at race pace (including a Saturday race) so maybe 75 would be ok if they were hard fast miles...

Pseudonym

okgo wrote:

Can't imagine you'd get far with 75 miles a
Week. But thinking about the miles I do each week (200-300) probably only 75 of them are at race pace (including a Saturday race) so maybe 75 would be ok if they were hard fast miles...

but if you only did the 75 'hard' miles, you would lose the base conditioning (or whatever you want to call it) that the other 125-225 gives you. That's a commendable total by the way...

petejuk

Ok, I can see this thread heading into my training advice is better than your training advice territory, so will just simply say to clarify - 75 miles a week for the rest of the training season probably won't be enough on its own to win races. However, 75 miles a week whilst riding cross races at weekends is likely to be a great building block for next year. The whole point about training is that it suits the individual. Maybe I was quick to judge the other posters but I genuinely feel that advocating the OP doubled his mileage and mixed up is effort is unhelpful. I recommend the OP spends a good amount of time researching and making use of the training manuals out there.

okgo

Pseudonym wrote:

okgo wrote:

Can't imagine you'd get far with 75 miles a
Week. But thinking about the miles I do each week (200-300) probably only 75 of them are at race pace (including a Saturday race) so maybe 75 would be ok if they were hard fast miles...

but if you only did the 75 'hard' miles, you would lose the base conditioning (or whatever you want to call it) that the other 125-225 gives you. That's a commendable total by the way...

That's what happens when you're a tight bastard and work 20 miles away plenty of commuting.

Pseudonym

petejuk wrote:

I recommend the OP spends a good amount of time researching and making use of the training manuals out there.

I recommend less reading - and more riding..

ozzzyosborn206

i think you could win a 4th cat race on 75 miles a week, plus swimming, thats a fairly decent amount of training really, riding cross now means you should go well early season, the amount you do makes a difference, but one guy who has a shed load of natural talent will go pretty well on that much training, whereas someone else could go rubbish, it may be worth swapping swimming for a turbo session as the season gets closer, i wouldn't be surprised if there is alot of guys who will win a race next year who aren't even training at the moment

Tom Butcher

It's possible but 75 miles a week will be less than the vast majority will be doing certainly come Spring. With a cross race on top I suppose that bumps it up but even so just in terms of volume most will be doing more. Of course talent, how well you use those miles, race craft and luck will all play a big part but as you are new to it I doubt your training or racecraft is particularly outstanding - so let's hope you are talented and lucky !

hairyleg

The cx race's finish Feb, so I can up my base miles leading into the spring with my local cycling club.
The crit race I done me and one guy got away for 25mins but my legs went and I got pulled back in,he went on to win the race.:-(
Cheers guys some great points from you all will update you all how I get on.

Herbsman

I won a premier calendar race on 20 miles a week

jgsi

Herbsman wrote:

I won a premier calendar race on 20 miles a week

However... your actual weekly training time ..............

Pross

Depends a lot on the type of race as well though surely? If racing CX every week then that race fitness would translate quite well to 4th cat 1 hour crits I'd have thought. If placing quite highly in the cross then it may be possible to win a 4th cat crit but I would certainly say more miles would help if aiming to win a 50 mile plus road race.

hammerite

Pross wrote:

Depends a lot on the type of race as well though surely? If racing CX every week then that race fitness would translate quite well to 4th cat 1 hour crits I'd have thought. If placing quite highly in the cross then it may be possible to win a 4th cat crit but I would certainly say more miles would help if aiming to win a 50 mile plus road race.

Exactly what Pross says, it depends on what and when the target is.

I surprised myself last March with a 4th place in my first ever race, with a field of 60 riders. I entered it just to see how I could do, with the ambition of being able to stick with the main bunch. 1hr crit around MK bowl, so flat and no real corners to break the rhythm - it's not a tough circuit by any stretch! I've just checked that my mileage last year before that was... Dec - 87 :oops: , Jan - 217, Feb - 386, Mar - 271, none of this was speed/interval work all steady rides. I was also running between 60-80 miles per month.

OK I didn't win which is what the OP said, but I was only a bike length off winning. Maybe if I'd done more I'd have won.

For a 1hr race you don't have to do loads of miles. If I'd have raced the Spring Chicken RR which was probably the same weekend I'd have no doubt been dropped after the first hour if not sooner.

Very few people will be really strong all season, so people who are getting mega miles in now are probably aiming to have a strong early season. There'll be some who are just ticking over at the moment who will be aiming to peak later in the season, they'll probably start ramping the miles up at some point.

oldwelshman

hammerite wrote:

Pross wrote:

Depends a lot on the type of race as well though surely? If racing CX every week then that race fitness would translate quite well to 4th cat 1 hour crits I'd have thought. If placing quite highly in the cross then it may be possible to win a 4th cat crit but I would certainly say more miles would help if aiming to win a 50 mile plus road race.

Exactly what Pross says, it depends on what and when the target is.

I surprised myself last March with a 4th place in my first ever race, with a field of 60 riders. I entered it just to see how I could do, with the ambition of being able to stick with the main bunch. 1hr crit around MK bowl, so flat and no real corners to break the rhythm - it's not a tough circuit by any stretch! I've just checked that my mileage last year before that was... Dec - 87 :oops: , Jan - 217, Feb - 386, Mar - 271, none of this was speed/interval work all steady rides. I was also running between 60-80 miles per month.

OK I didn't win which is what the OP said, but I was only a bike length off winning. Maybe if I'd done more I'd have won.

For a 1hr race you don't have to do loads of miles. If I'd have raced the Spring Chicken RR which was probably the same weekend I'd have no doubt been dropped after the first hour if not sooner.

Very few people will be really strong all season, so people who are getting mega miles in now are probably aiming to have a strong early season. There'll be some who are just ticking over at the moment who will be aiming to peak later in the season, they'll probably start ramping the miles up at some point.

Hmm interesting post.
I dont recall ever seeing 60 in a 3rd cat race at the Bowl let alone in March was it free entry?
As for saying it is not hard around he bowl, try going round in the 1,2,3 race on a thursday !! As with any cycling it is as hard as you make it and the young guys on a thursday make it very hard. That little rise becomes very hard after about 15 sprints up it to stay in touch, not quite the same as plodding up in your saddle

hammerite

oldwelshman wrote:

Hmm interesting post.
I dont recall ever seeing 60 in a 3rd cat race at the Bowl let alone in March was it free entry?
As for saying it is not hard around he bowl, try going round in the 1,2,3 race on a thursday !! As with any cycling it is as hard as you make it and the young guys on a thursday make it very hard. That little rise becomes very hard after about 15 sprints up it to stay in touch, not quite the same as plodding up in your saddle

It was one of the Team MK early season races, 4s only and a very big field (just looked back on the results but they only give top 10). I only did about 8 races last year and it was easily the biggest field of all I did. I know it can get tougher depending on how people decide to race, especially for me when they open up the outer bits (I'm shockingly bad on the tight twisty stuff). The point I was trying to make was that compared to some courses that there are fewer "features" that can cause problems - than say somewhere like Hogg Hill - and so an "easier" race than some so maybe my 4th was a bit lucky.

We went anti clockwise, so the rise is a gentler drag up, than clockwise.

I race in the 3/4 on Thursday nights at the Bowl, and I did find the going tougher.

hairyleg

Pross wrote:

Depends a lot on the type of race as well though surely? If racing CX every week then that race fitness would translate quite well to 4th cat 1 hour crits I'd have thought. If placing quite highly in the cross then it may be possible to win a 4th cat crit but I would certainly say more miles would help if aiming to win a 50 mile plus road race.

Cx racing going really well I've had a 4th and been consistant over 7 race's(3rd in the league for now :shock: )depends on who turns up I guess.Hoping to start 1hr crits in the spring then move to longer races for the summer if things work out.

sub55

hairyleg
Location: North Wales


where in N wales

hairyleg

sub55 wrote:

hairyleg
Location: North Wales


where in N wales

Near Chester

sub55

hairyleg wrote:

sub55 wrote:

hairyleg
Location: North Wales


where in N wales

Near Chester

Fair enough, just noticed the north wales bit and a 75 mile ride around Snowdonia is`nt the same as a 75 mile ride on the Cheshire plain. My tip is to stop thinking in terms of miles and think instead of your training in time.
p.s you`re not doing enough to be brutally honest. But thats not to say ,you cant have a go and enjoy yourself whilst your doing it.
p.p.s wonder how many people offering advice have actually ever won a race, beyond a little local crit with a handful of riders.

jgsi

hairyleg wrote:

Hi, looking at doing some road racing next year. I’ve done two TLI crits the end of last year and I’ve got the bug. So looking at getting BC rrl for next year so will be racing in cat 4 races. I’m 42 no spring chicken and riding about 75miles a week plus 1hr swim and racing Cyclocross each week. What else should I be looking at? I’m too old to win a race? Or just Dreaming?.

Interested by someone who is quicker with the knowledge than me as to how many 4th cat road races there are under BC for the OP to aim for and seeing that his location is N wales, presumably putting a limit on the geographic area in these times of expensive fuel?
Personally, I'm well catered for by an abundance of local tli and lvrc races to keep me busy for 2012, even though some seem a bit 'sniffy' about them for some reason.... :?

hairyleg

sub55 wrote:

hairyleg wrote:

sub55 wrote:

hairyleg
Location: North Wales


where in N wales

Near Chester

Fair enough, just noticed the north wales bit and a 75 mile ride around Snowdonia is`nt the same as a 75 mile ride on the Cheshire plain. My tip is to stop thinking in terms of miles and think instead of your training in time.
p.s you`re not doing enough to be brutally honest. But thats not to say ,you cant have a go and enjoy yourself whilst your doing it.
p.p.s wonder how many people offering advice have actually ever won a race, beyond a little local crit with a handful of riders.

Most of my rides take in some of the best climbs in Nwales horseshoe pass/nant/shelf etc etc some people paid £90 to ride those routes lol

oldwelshman

hammerite wrote:

oldwelshman wrote:

Hmm interesting post.
I dont recall ever seeing 60 in a 3rd cat race at the Bowl let alone in March was it free entry?
As for saying it is not hard around he bowl, try going round in the 1,2,3 race on a thursday !! As with any cycling it is as hard as you make it and the young guys on a thursday make it very hard. That little rise becomes very hard after about 15 sprints up it to stay in touch, not quite the same as plodding up in your saddle

It was one of the Team MK early season races, 4s only and a very big field (just looked back on the results but they only give top 10). I only did about 8 races last year and it was easily the biggest field of all I did. I know it can get tougher depending on how people decide to race, especially for me when they open up the outer bits (I'm shockingly bad on the tight twisty stuff). The point I was trying to make was that compared to some courses that there are fewer "features" that can cause problems - than say somewhere like Hogg Hill - and so an "easier" race than some so maybe my 4th was a bit lucky.

We went anti clockwise, so the rise is a gentler drag up, than clockwise.

I race in the 3/4 on Thursday nights at the Bowl, and I did find the going tougher.

I find hog hill much easier than the bowl becuase it is better surface, at the bowl when going outside down the bottom, clockwise throguh the gate, my bike has literally been in the air !! that first corner is so bumpy. When the race is just inside it is much easier. Out the top gates it can get very windy and that breaks the race up every time.

hairyleg

Hi all,
A update on my racing season,been racing the Tli's big learning curve racing on the roads.

After the first few races of just finishing in the bunch,it turns out I;m sh*t at solo breaks LOL.
but I'm not bad at sprinting and started to get in the top 10 most races so up to date I've had 7th/6th/5th/4th/3rd still not won but I'm loving it.
Miles per Week around 150

DavidJB

Good effort

bigmat

I ride maybe 130/140 miles per week, the majority being commutes to work and back (10 miles each way) and can compete at 4th cat - in fact I find myself more comfortable at longer road races (100km) then hour long crits - seem to get stronger as the race goes on. A lot depends on your underlying physiology I think. Some people will need to ride hundreds of miles a week and do 75 mile training rides, others will get by on what they can realistically fir in to their busy lives (I'm sure I'd be better if I could do more miles / longer rides!)