Off-Season hypothetical questions...
rick_chasey
Posts: 72,738
Comments
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Olympics Road RaceFckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0
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RichN95 wrote:More an answer to 'if you had to get rid of one race...' rather than 'if you could...', but
Tour of Catalunya
Nobody's interested in it. I can't see the point.
I'd like to get rid of all non-Euro races.
Since i'm straight jacketing myself to one - it'd have to be the waaay too self important ToC.0 -
Tour of Britain.0
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Great thread Rick.
I would have to agree with the ToC. Is anyone really interested? It is billed as being comparable with the Giro and has some 'names' riding each year but I am yet to notice any real spectator interest.
I would say though, it may be a good thing for the USA and because of that, there may be subsidury benefits for cycling.
#2 - If you could make any rule change/add a new rule, what would it be?
Mine - Hhhmmm, not sure actually. Will have a think (Presuming Fat Pat being banned from speaking in public isn't a realistic one...)0 -
Probably the Tour of Poland. I've not heard many people on this forum have a particularly good word to say about it and all of the stages seem to end in town centre crits.
Getting rid of the Tour of Britain before the Tour of Poland would be harsh as the last couple of years the ToB has been quite an entertaining race.0 -
CyclingBantam wrote:#2 - If you could make any rule change/add a new rule, what would it be?
I would change the points system in all the classifications at all stage races so that if a rider finishes outside of the time limit and then is reinstated into the race, he loses all points gained up to that stage. He can start earning points after that, but goes back down to zero each time he is eliminated and then reinstated.0 -
Getting rid of the Tour of California would be madness. I'd go the other direction and promote it top World Tour status.
It appears to be financially successful, it's fairly well supported, it provides prime viewing for the Euro TV audience and it takes place in one of the world's largest economy's. Big boxes ticked.
The sport has already alienated Europe's biggest economic power. Alienating an even bigger World economy isn't smart.
Clinging to history and tradition (half of which is BS in the first place) too hard will be the death of cycling.
#2 Rule change. More a marketing change. Make a big deal of the World Tour rankings. But not the individual one - the team one - and count all the points, not just the top 5 riders. Have a big sponsored prize. Make some of the World Tour licences dependent on it. Have big points penalties for doping offences.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Ah, I just mean from a fan's perspective.
I can't remotely get excited about the ToC.
Not one bit.
The fans irritate me. The hype irritates me.
And during the Giro is also irritating.0 -
#2 - enforce mountain cut offs and make them stricter.
If fat assed sprinters are not putting in the same effort as the leaders to stay within the cutoff, it's too long.0 -
RichN95 wrote:#2 Rule change. More a marketing change. Make a big deal of the World Tour rankings. But not the individual one - the team one - and count all the points, not just the top 5 riders. Have a big sponsored prize. Make some of the World Tour licences dependent on it. Have big points penalties for doping offences.
Does cycling need to be about rankings or team classifications? Surely it's as simple as who won the Tour, Roubaix or whatever race? Don't know who won the team classification at the tour and I don't really care. Pro cycling isn't like F1 or football and I don't see how it would be better trying to make it so.
(and yes, OK, I know it was Garmin who won the Team classification at the Tour...)0 -
Its a great race and having ridden a number of the roads is tough.RichN95 wrote:Tour of Catalunya
Nobody's interested in it. I can't see the point.
The point is that with many top pros living in Girona its local for them to ride.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:#2 - enforce mountain cut offs and make them stricter.
If fat assed sprinters are not putting in the same effort as the leaders to stay within the cutoff, it's too long.
Fair enough, just so long as any GC candidate not finishing within 20m of Cavendish in a sprint finish also gets kicked out. If the climbers can't put the same effort in every day then they should go home.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Catalunya's one of the oldest stage races in existence, with a great list of winners including Kelly, R. Millar. Just because it's recently been a victim of calendar changes is no reason to get rid of 100 years of history.
Tour of Romandie always seems a pretty soulless race to me, though no doubt it has its own merits.
Any rubbish race made up for the World Tour (or whatever it's called this year).
Giro di Padania!0 -
RichN95 wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:#2 - enforce mountain cut offs and make them stricter.
If fat assed sprinters are not putting in the same effort as the leaders to stay within the cutoff, it's too long.
Fair enough, just so long as any GC candidate not finishing within 20m of Cavendish in a sprint finish also gets kicked out. If the climbers can't put the same effort in every day then they should go home.
Disagree.
The Tour's in part, about survival.
You want to do well in the Tour - you'll have to get over the mountains. Properly.
I don't get this ' if the roulers suffer, so should the climbers'.0 -
greasedscotsman wrote:Does cycling need to be about rankings or team classifications? Surely it's as simple as who won the Tour, Roubaix or whatever race? Don't know who won the team classification at the tour and I don't really care. Pro cycling isn't like F1 or football and I don't see how it would be better trying to make it so.
(and yes, OK, I know it was Garmin who won the Team classification at the Tour...)
Because a season long competition would generate interest in races across the whole season and boost the significance of the smaller races. The rankings are there, so why not use them? Rankings comparing individuals are flawed, but those comparing teams are not. It's about marketing and packaging the sport, which is currently done badly, and greater emphasis on the teams over a season helps attract sponsors.
Image, at the end of the season, rather than a lacklustre Tour of Beijing and a flat 'is this still a monument' Lombardy with disinterested riders, you had, say Sky, BMC and Omega battling it out for a two million pound prize fund and AG2R, Vacansoliel and FdJ fighting for next years licences. Now that's an event.
(PS I wasn't taking about team classifications in individual races at all).Twitter: @RichN950 -
Rick Chasey wrote:RichN95 wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:#2 - enforce mountain cut offs and make them stricter.
If fat assed sprinters are not putting in the same effort as the leaders to stay within the cutoff, it's too long.
Fair enough, just so long as any GC candidate not finishing within 20m of Cavendish in a sprint finish also gets kicked out. If the climbers can't put the same effort in every day then they should go home.
Disagree.
The Tour's in part, about survival.
You want to do well in the Tour - you'll have to get over the mountains. Properly.
I don't get this ' if the roulers suffer, so should the climbers'.
Flawed.
"Doing well in the Tour" suggests GC. Sprinters are not usually interested in GC, just points. No-one demonstrates survival better than a sprinter.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Disagree.
The Tour's in part, about survival.
You want to do well in the Tour - you'll have to get over the mountains. Properly.
I don't get this ' if the roulers suffer, so should the climbers'.
And time limits are all about the demands of TV and logistics - nothing to do with racing. In sorting terms, why does it matter if the autobus comes in 30 or 35 minutes after the winner.
Sport is about entertainment. There's no sense in getting rid of your biggest stars unnecessarily.
A draconian approach to time limits would encourage doping, that's for sure, but it would achieve little else.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Yellow Peril wrote:Flawed.
"Doing well in the Tour" suggests GC. Sprinters are not usually interested in GC, just points. No-one demonstrates survival better than a sprinter.
So take the points off them, like I suggested.0 -
RichN95 wrote:Image, at the end of the season, rather than a lacklustre Tour of Beijing and a flat 'is this still a monument' Lombardy with disinterested riders, you had, say Sky, BMC and Omega battling it out for a two million pound prize fund and AG2R, Vacansoliel and FdJ fighting for next years licences. Now that's an event.
I'd still only really be interested in who won Lombardy. And not sure why it's now flat?
*Edit* Got it now, you mean flat as in boring, not flat as in, err, flat...
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Yellow Peril wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:RichN95 wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:#2 - enforce mountain cut offs and make them stricter.
If fat assed sprinters are not putting in the same effort as the leaders to stay within the cutoff, it's too long.
Fair enough, just so long as any GC candidate not finishing within 20m of Cavendish in a sprint finish also gets kicked out. If the climbers can't put the same effort in every day then they should go home.
Disagree.
The Tour's in part, about survival.
You want to do well in the Tour - you'll have to get over the mountains. Properly.
I don't get this ' if the roulers suffer, so should the climbers'.
Flawed.
"Doing well in the Tour" suggests GC. Sprinters are not usually interested in GC, just points. No-one demonstrates survival better than a sprinter.
Apart from all the ones who get through the best of the flat stages and then quit, its a GT not a training camp. That gets my goat.0 -
Well ok, but messing with the time limits would actually encourage that. Imagine what a great tour it would be if 100 of the best riders in the world got eliminated on the first Saturday because they miscalculated the time cut off, what a great week it would be. Watching 50 climbers ride all the flat stages in a big slow group...wow!
You either have the above,stick with what we have now or have a limit so large it's meaningless....We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
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#1 Tour of Qatar. Mind-blowingly tedious.
#2 Reduce the grand tour teams to 8 riders with a maximum of 20 teams. One fewer rider in the third week will make it harder for teams to control the race and a maximum of 160 riders in the bunch will make things safer in the first week.0 -
#1 Tour of Qatar for me as well. Boring scenery, boring racing unless a cross wind breaks them up. I'd rather see the Tour of Oman made slightly longer to give it more chance to explore the mountains.
#2 I actually really like GreasedScotsman's suggestion. That way the green jersey contenders have to push harder in the mountains but it overcomes the usual concern that you would lose too many riders. I'd also like to see the time for a TTT being based on the team's final rider across the line.0 -
RichN95 wrote:afx237vi wrote:#1 Tour of Qatar. Mind-blowingly tedious.
The Tour of Qatar is just the equivalent of one of those pre-season tournaments that Premiership football play in the likes of Shanghai - a high income training camp
Knowing that to be true doesn't make it any less of a boring race.0 -
Pross wrote:#2 I actually really like GreasedScotsman's suggestion. That way the green jersey contenders have to push harder in the mountains but it overcomes the usual concern that you would lose too many riders.
But why reduce a perfectly decent competition to a level of a farce due to some arbitrary time limit which isn't even set until the first rider is over the line just to satisfy a few fans' romantic notions about 'survival' and their bizarre idea that the sprinters are having a easy day off.
And your TTT idea wouldn't work either. A puncture is bad luck, but why compound it nine times?Twitter: @RichN950 -
^+1
...Basically Cycling is not cycling unless it's cr*p...
You re saying that you would watch the tour everyday if it was just about the GC (which it would be!)? Much of the fun of it is that different stages have something to keep you interested. Who will win the sprint, then might we see an epic break away, then might the GC race be decided today, then might we see some birdman turning himself inside out to climb a hill super fast.
It's like people who argue that low league football is better and they should play in mudbaths with old leather balls and anyone who has a bit of skill and fitness should have they re laces tied together!We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0
