New begginer Dh Bike

maxradkiewicz

Im looking to start DH biking, and i was wonering what sort of bike can i get for aroud 2500 - 3000 pounds?

- is it worth buying a brand new bike, or is it worth checking out used ones.

- is i worth spending such amount on a dh for a bigginer?

Pudseyp

To be honest I would look at a long travel AM/FR bike, they will cope with near all UK DH tracks and offer you the flexibility to use them at bike parks and trail centres so you have an all rounder....something like this perhaps..

http://www.canyon.com/_uk/mountainbikes ... tml?b=2578

and at that price, its a real bargain...

delcol

you should get a decent bike witin your budget.. as for new or second hand it's up to you. there are good deals to be had out there on both new bikes and second hand..

i would agree with pudseyp a am/freeride bike would be more than fine for most dh/park riding over here.

i could have the perfect bike for you..
viewtopic.php?f=40050&t=12823679&p=17344923&hilit=specialized+demo+7#p17344923

styxd

If you want to start dh riding, then buy a dh bike, not an am bike you can pedal around trail centres = that would be stupid.

However, I'd spend a little less and buy something 2nd hand. Ride it for a bit, see you you enjoy it etc. etc. then spend some more cash if you do.

rockmonkeysc

Normally getting test rides would be a good idea but finding DH/FR bikes to test ride is impossible.
DH bikes can feel a bit boring to ride until you get fast because the super slack geometry & mega plush suspension makes everything feel a bit slow & dull.
FR bikes can be easier to ride, single crown forks have a better turning circle for when you overshoot bends & the lighter weight & slightly sharper steering makes them easier to throw around.
Have a look at Rose bikes. The Beefcake FR is awesome value.

Pudseyp

styxd wrote:

If you want to start dh riding, then buy a dh bike, not an am bike you can pedal around trail centres = that would be stupid.

However, I'd spend a little less and buy something 2nd hand. Ride it for a bit, see you you enjoy it etc. etc. then spend some more cash if you do.

Why is it stupid ? FR bikes are mini DH bikes to be fair so unless you aim to take on the likes of the Athertons then a FR bike is a great option, lighter and more versitile.....any way you have constantley moaned that you can ride your HT on most DH tracks in the UK, so on that basis a FR bike is the best option over a DH rig.

supersonic

FR bikes vary, as do DH bikes, but if you want to ride the big DH tracks the UK to their full potential then you need a DH or suitable FR bike ideally.

AM bikes might 'cope' with a very skilled rider, but some UK tracks have big drops and are a match for anything else the world offers. I have never understood this 'UK' riding thing.

styxd

FR bikes are mini DH bikes to be fair so unless you aim to take on the likes of the Athertons then a FR bike is a great option, lighter and more versitile.....

But they arent really "mini dh" bikes are they? Different geometry to start with. And they arent any lighter either.

They are probably more versatile due to said geometry differences, but why would you buy a bike that you can pedal uphill and around trail centres when you actually just want to ride downhill?

If you want a bike to ride downhill as best you can on, then get a downhill bike, simple really. I think thats why most people that ride downhill tend to use downhill bikes.

rockmonkeysc

I would say at least half the riders on most uplifts seem to be on FR bikes.
A some FR bikes even share the same frames as DH bikes (Kona Operator, Rose Beefcake) and have 200mm rear travel & 180mm front. FR bikes handle often better than DH bikes in the air & are easier to throw around.
AM bikes vary a lot, from the Lapierre Zesty at the light weight end to the Santa Cruz Bullit, Orange Patriot & Giant Reign X at the more aggressive AM/FR end.
I use my Giant Reign X for downhill and it's really good, I'm happy to ride 10 foot drops on it and rattle through rock gardens at full speed. I could ride a little faster on a Glory but from experience I know it's not a huge amount faster & it's not as much fun. I bought the Reign X over the Glory as I use it for everything from XC to DH & FR.

Pudseyp

styxd wrote:

FR bikes are mini DH bikes to be fair so unless you aim to take on the likes of the Athertons then a FR bike is a great option, lighter and more versitile.....

But they arent really "mini dh" bikes are they? Different geometry to start with. And they arent any lighter either.

They are probably more versatile due to said geometry differences, but why would you buy a bike that you can pedal uphill and around trail centres when you actually just want to ride downhill?

If you want a bike to ride downhill as best you can on, then get a downhill bike, simple really. I think thats why most people that ride downhill tend to use downhill bikes.

When I stated mini DH bikes I meant shorter travel and lighter but will do the same job....as for you comment above about most people riding DH bikes on DH tracks then again utter rubbish...see also comment above...I used to ride the DH track at cwm carn a lot when I lived in Bristol only around 30% of the bikes I used to see were "proper" DH rigs....

Take a look at this....Dan Sheridan using a 140mm Travel bike on an Irish round of their DH championship.....a decent long travel bike properly set up is all you need, plus you can also pedal and session stuff....you don't need a full on DH rig unless racing at top level.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&v=CfTyEnNRxqw

rockmonkeysc

Agree about less than half the bikes at uplifts being full DH bikes. Usually a good mix of DH, FR, AM & hardtails, even the odd slopestyle or jump bike. DH bikes often aren't going any faster than any of the other bikes.

delcol

styxd wrote:

FR bikes are mini DH bikes to be fair so unless you aim to take on the likes of the Athertons then a FR bike is a great option, lighter and more versitile.....

But they arent really "mini dh" bikes are they? Different geometry to start with. And they arent any lighter either.

They are probably more versatile due to said geometry differences, but why would you buy a bike that you can pedal uphill and around trail centres when you actually just want to ride downhill?

If you want a bike to ride downhill as best you can on, then get a downhill bike, simple really. I think thats why most people that ride downhill tend to use downhill bikes.

comapairing spesh demo 7 to the demo 8
demo 7
http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBC ... spid=39210
demo 8
http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBC ... &gold_ses=

the geometry aint that different.. half a degree slacker on the seat tube and a degree slacker on the head tube.
bottom bracket a few mm higher. satandover height. and wheelbase

supersonic

I ride my Zaskar down Wharncliffe DH, where Peaty trains. It means nothing, doesn't mean it will fair as well as a DH bike!

you don't need a full on DH rig unless racing at top level.

On the whole I disagree, depends a lot on the rider. A pro racer will get more out of a shorter travel, lighter rig than a novice will, and I am sure a beginner will get more out of a full on rig than a shorter travel rig to start. If it is full on DH...

1mancity2

maxradkiewicz wrote:

Im looking to start DH biking, and i was wonering what sort of bike can i get for aroud 2500 - 3000 pounds?

- is it worth buying a brand new bike, or is it worth checking out used ones.

- is i worth spending such amount on a dh for a bigginer?

As a starter what are you considering as "DH biking" ?


once we know that.....

bluechair84

supersonic wrote:

I ride my Zaskar down Wharncliffe DH, where Peaty trains. It means nothing, doesn't mean it will fair as well as a DH bike!

you don't need a full on DH rig unless racing at top level.

On the whole I disagree, depends a lot on the rider. A pro racer will get more out of a shorter travel, lighter rig than a novice will, and I am sure a beginner will get more out of a full on rig than a shorter travel rig to start. If it is full on DH...

It's rare that I diasgree with sonic, but I'm really all for Pudsey on this. Having ridden Glencoe (surely the most severe DH circuit in Britain) on the Moment back to back with a monster DH bike - a GT ITS - I agree that lighterweight, slightly steeper angles and shorter wheel base bikes are better for beginners in Britain. Trying to maintain a three ton barge down a DH circuit is about the most scared I've ever been. The amount you have to tug on the brakes waaaay in advance of the corners for starters... Long travel doesn't mean you can get away with not choosing your lines as handling will restrict where you can and can't go, you have to plan in advance. I think it's the pros that can make the most out of these bohemoths and mere mortals are better served by more agile machines, escially in the UK as there are few long, fast, destructive courses where a 45ib beast will act as bullet proofing against the speed of the course.

Pudseyp

supersonic wrote:

I ride my Zaskar down Wharncliffe DH, where Peaty trains. It means nothing, doesn't mean it will fair as well as a DH bike!

you don't need a full on DH rig unless racing at top level.

On the whole I disagree, depends a lot on the rider. A pro racer will get more out of a shorter travel, lighter rig than a novice will, and I am sure a beginner will get more out of a full on rig than a shorter travel rig to start. If it is full on DH...

So why in the world champs and world cups are all the Pro's on 8 inch travel rigs ans not 160 travel AM bikes ???

I fell into the trap a few years ago and bought a Giant DH then a Glory because I thought it was cool and doing DH I needed a DH bike...after a few months I realised that it was a stupid decision, as riding the likes of Cwm Carn I would never match the bikes ability, plus using it on the (old) FR area it was a pain in the ass pushing it all the time. I went to a 160 travel bike and never looked back, my times were actualy quicker on the DH run as to me the bike was more nimble...but the Glory in the hands of my mate (who has competed in the british NPS DH champs) smashed my times as he was a seasoned racer.

supersonic

So why in the world champs and world cups are all the Pro's on 8 inch travel rigs ans not 160 travel AM bikes ???

I said they would get a lot more than a novice would, not more than they would from a DH bike!

I just think for DH as it is meant to be a DH bike has the extra strength and ability to deal with stuff that AM cannot. Again, I reiterate, you can just about get any bike down any course as in my Zaskar above, and on easier tracks an AM bike may well with some people be quicker.

But if you are doing 10 feet drops or more and smashing through rock fields, that extra strength and travel can really count.

A DH bike need not weigh 45lbs - this one weighs 37.5lbs, only slightly more than some entry level AM bikes!

http://www.canyon.com/_en/mountainbikes ... tml?b=2579

If you want a bike to ride downhill as best you can on, then get a downhill bike, simple really. I think thats why most people that ride downhill tend to use downhill bikes.

Couldn't agree more.

styxd

I think alot of people you see at the uplifts who are riding FR bikes and the like, perhaps only have enough money for the one bike? So as you say, they get a FR bike as they are a bit more versatile.

But if I had the money to buy a specific bike for dh, then I'd buy a dh bike. Fair enough, on tracks like innerleithen or hamsterley an AM or FR bike will be just as quick, but go to a proper downhill track like FT Bill or get out to the Alps and the DH bike will really come into its own.

Northwind

The big advantage of a smaller bike is that you're not restricted to downhill... Might sound obvious, but when I used my trailbike for all my downhill stuff, sure it made things harder and asked a lot of the bike but it meant I was totally familiar with the bike. Also since I was using it all the time, I knew it was in good nick. Whereas with the dh bike, it's a much more appropriate tool for the job but I don't use it anything like as much so there's always familiarisation time needed when I get on it, and it's harder to test out properly. If you only ride a bike once a month for an uplift, then you're not going to learn it or be able to get it dialled in to your taste the same as you can with a bike you ride every week. Doesn't bother everyone, but I like to know a bike inside out, and I like it to be set up just how I want it, and that takes time and use.

But as for better, well, look at any race field- there'll be little bikes and just occasionally they'll be doing well but even when you've got a straightforward course like the last innerleithen SDA round, it's mostly big bikes and it's a turnup for the books when someone podiums on a smaller ride. Not talking about top-end racing here either.

A really good modern trailbike, with downhill tyres and suitably solid kit, is a brilliant machine and very capable- if they let a fairly ordinary rider like me race for 6 hours at Fort William, then they have to be- but they're not as good as a DH bike, for the job that DH bikes are designed to do. More appropriate maybe, for riders that don't just do downhill.

bluechair84 wrote:

Having ridden Glencoe (surely the most severe DH circuit in Britain) on the Moment back to back with a monster DH bike - a GT ITS - I agree that lighterweight, slightly steeper angles and shorter wheel base bikes are better for beginners in Britain. Trying to maintain a three ton barge down a DH circuit is about the most scared I've ever been. The amount you have to tug on the brakes waaaay in advance of the corners for starters...

Not trying to be funny here, but it sounds like you were just not used to the big bike? (was it an IT-1?) A good dh bike doesn't take longer to slow down, unless it's just going faster in the first place o'course. You can stick big tyres and brakes on a trailbike but, well, my Herb weighs 39lbs, but when my Hemlock is in DH mode it weighs 36lbs! So the weight difference vanishes, and what's left is the big bike's better groundholding and traction.

Northwind

Anyways- for the OP:

Do you have any other bikes? Some of the advice here assumes you'd benefit from a more allroundery bike, but maybe you have that covered.
Have you done any downhill? You can try it on a little bike to get a feel for it. It's not for everyone, and a shame to blow £2500 on something you might not actually like

Your budget is enough for a very nice new bike (with enough left over for hookers and crack). You could spend less, and get a very nice used bike, and spend the rest on an orgy of uplift days, races, and trips abroad (with or without hookers and crack). But you do need to be careful buying a used DH bike- by design they get hammered, and often used "bargains" are just worn out wrecks that the owner's realised are easier to replace than repair. Much more so than regular bikes.

Also, buying used will most likely lead you to Pinkbike, which is a wretched hive of scum and villiany. There's good buys to be had there, but there's also loss and timewasting, so be careful.

And, enjoy!

bluechair84

Northwind wrote:

bluechair84 wrote:

Having ridden Glencoe (surely the most severe DH circuit in Britain) on the Moment back to back with a monster DH bike - a GT ITS - I agree that lighterweight, slightly steeper angles and shorter wheel base bikes are better for beginners in Britain. Trying to maintain a three ton barge down a DH circuit is about the most scared I've ever been. The amount you have to tug on the brakes waaaay in advance of the corners for starters...

Not trying to be funny here, but it sounds like you were just not used to the big bike? (was it an IT-1?) A good dh bike doesn't take longer to slow down, unless it's just going faster in the first place o'course. You can stick big tyres and brakes on a trailbike but, well, my Herb weighs 39lbs, but when my Hemlock is in DH mode it weighs 36lbs! So the weight difference vanishes, and what's left is the big bike's better groundholding and traction.

I agree there's a lot to be said for 'knowing your bike' - especially the tyres and brakes. There must have been 10lbs of difference between the two and I genuinely believe that a lighter bike can be directed around, over or stopped far more precisely than a heavy DH bike which is better at ploughing through. Maybe it's personal riding style based on what you know, and maybe it's the courses you ride, but I'd go light weight for manouverability and precision every time.
Um, I've just paid for a Canyon Torque, seconds from Pinkbike. That's going to be my DH bike and I'm looking forward to chasing down the full DH bikes at Stile Cop


Should it arrive...