Garage security - any ideas or advice?

Thebigbee

Hi,
just had my daily commute bike nicked from a locked communal garage.

Stupidly I thought the just locking the garage would be enough. However it wasn't as somehow they managed to damage the lock and open it but without any visible damage if that makes sense.

It used to turn a specific way to lock and unlock and now works the opposite way. I guess if you are professional thief knowing how to open garage door "locks" and Yale locks is one of the "tools of your despicable trade"!

In all honesty I am reluctant to leave mine and my kids bikes in there anymore, but I haven't got the space to store them all in the hall permanently.

I am going to fit at least a couple of wall anchors. Actually had an Oxford Brute force that I hadn't got round to fitting because of the beast of a drill bit it requires - so pretty pi55ed off at myself!!

Can anyone recommend what other measures I can take and if you have experience of using these products?

I am thinking along the lines of somehow securing the door better. There is a hole in the door handle that would take a very thin padlock. Maybe using some kind of alarm?

I have seen the door defender things but am wary that something like that would attract a casual thief "casing the joint"!

Also because they are communal garages I don't think the management company would allow it.

Any advice or suggestions greatly received

Cheers

fossyant

Standard locks on garages are crap - basically the same key you use in desk cabinets - easy to get into. As it's communal, does this mean others have access to the garage, or just you ?

A good quality padlock/hasp lock can help, or shoot bolts.

Floor/wall anchors/d-locks and chains. All my bikes are d-locked/chained to various anchors in a very secure garage - just in case. Recently had one attempted brake in (removed glass from window, but seeing as it was barred with heavy duty steel roof 'straps' they couldn't get in.)

veronese68

Some of my neighbours had bikes nicked out of sheds a while ago and the scrotes had obviously tried my garage door. I had a padlock as well as the standard lock. Decided that wasn't man enough and got some of these:
http://www.directlocks.co.uk/asec-garage-door-bolts-pair-garage-door-locks-p-1133.html
They fit inside the door and a half inch bolt comes out either side into the frame. Really strong and very difficult to cut as you can't get to them. Be careful when fitting as you need to make sure they line up properly. The keys they come with are 4 sided so I doubt it's possible to pick the lock. Even if you could you have to wind the bolts a long way in.

Thebigbee

"Standard locks on garages are crap - basically the same key you use in desk cabinets - easy to get into. As it's communal, does this mean others have access to the garage, or just you ?"

So I have learnt to my peril. I mean communal in that it is a block of garages and each flat has its own one - if that makes sense.
I think I need to make the actual door more secure in the first place. Even if I had had it D Locked to a wall anchor they could easily have had the time to attempt breaking that off and probably ruined the bike just for the hell of it.

Thanks for the link - think I will go for something like that.

I am amazed but not surprised that the only suggestion by the police was to fit a door defender thing. If that doesn't tell thieves that there is something worth nicking in there I don't know what does!

Cheers for your help

bails87

We've got an 'up and over door' and I put a barrel bolt on the wall above the door (on the inside), pointing downwards so the bolt 'retracts' just far enough to allow the door to swing open, but when it's shut you can drop the bolt down and it stops the door from opening.

That's along with another barrel bolt attached to the bottom of the door that drops into a hole in the floor.

They're only openable from inside the garage, but that's okay as we can get into the garage through the house.

I've heard people say that garage doors can be pretty much 'folded' open, so without some extra protection you're still vulnerable. An alarm would be sensible. Along with a sticker saying there's an alarm.

Thebigbee

bails87 wrote:

We've got an 'up and over door' and I put a barrel bolt on the wall above the door (on the inside), pointing downwards so the bolt 'retracts' just far enough to allow the door to swing open, but when it's shut you can drop the bolt down and it stops the door from opening.

That's along with another barrel bolt attached to the bottom of the door that drops into a hole in the floor.

They're only openable from inside the garage, but that's okay as we can get into the garage through the house.

I've heard people say that garage doors can be pretty much 'folded' open, so without some extra protection you're still vulnerable. An alarm would be sensible. Along with a sticker saying there's an alarm.

Good idea for people that can access their garages from the inside. However I only have one entry point to my garage - through the door.

Even if I had a padlock through the hole in the door handle it would have, at the least slowed them down. Problem is it is such a small hole that I have had trouble finding a half decent padlock that isn't likely to seize, fitting through the hole.

Anyone got any suggestions for a padlock that fits through that small hole?

Also any ideas or any experience of using an alarm to a detached garage with no electrics?

I doubt I will put a sticker on as, like a door defender, in a row of 12 identical garages I find it counter productive to alert dodgy people to the possibility that something is worth nicking.

I may be wrong as I recently read about a "professional" burglar giving a checklist of properties he wouldn't target no matter what. These included Burglar alarms and CCTV even if he suspected they were dummies. Any property with a dog and I think even a sticker or sign saying "Beware of Dog"

A shame that the police get so much money and can't even offer any sensible advice. I doubt they recover more than 5% of bikes that are stolen. I'd love to know their stats about that!

bails87

Re the police not being able to offer sensible advice: It sounds harsh, and if I was in your position I'd be very frustated too, but what do you expect? you want something to protect your door that can't be seen from the outside. That means it has to be on the inside, but you can't get to the inside without opening the door. So it needs to be outside, so it's going to be visible.

Could you rig up a 'rape alarm' so that the cord is pulled when the door is opened? Unless you know to unhook it first, obviously.

My final bit of advice: keep a hungry bear in the garage.

veronese68

The locks I linked to are not very obvious from the outside. A couple of chrome escutcheons that cover the key holes and 2 coach bolts on each. If you were to paint them the same colour as the door they would hardly show at all. You'd have to get the chrome off before painting the escutcheons.

Thebigbee

bails87 wrote:

Re the police not being able to offer sensible advice: It sounds harsh, and if I was in your position I'd be very frustated too, but what do you expect? you want something to protect your door that can't be seen from the outside. That means it has to be on the inside, but you can't get to the inside without opening the door. So it needs to be outside, so it's going to be visible.

Could you rig up a 'rape alarm' so that the cord is pulled when the door is opened? Unless you know to unhook it first, obviously.

My final bit of advice: keep a hungry bear in the garage.

I have to disagree about being harsh about the police. Their only advice was to fit a "door defender" type thing. Firstly I wouldn't be able to fit it due to the regulations of the management company. Secondly I think it would act as a beacon, in a communal block of garages, to thieves, that something was worth nicking in there.

I think the advice that I got on here, for free was much more helpful - "Some of my neighbours had bikes nicked out of sheds a while ago and the scrotes had obviously tried my garage door. I had a padlock as well as the standard lock. Decided that wasn't man enough and got some of these:
http://www.directlocks.co.uk/asec-garag ... -1133.html
They fit inside the door and a half inch bolt comes out either side into the frame. Really strong and very difficult to cut as you can't get to them. Be careful when fitting as you need to make sure they line up properly. The keys they come with are 4 sided so I doubt it's possible to pick the lock. Even if you could you have to wind the bolts a long way in."

It's as if the police have not been trained or haven't been asked the question, "how do I make my garage more secure"?

I know you can get wireless garage alarms and was just wondering if anyone had experience or suggestions?

I don't think I need to get a "rape" alarm. I am fairly certain that my workmate and Belfast sink will be able to defend themselves against any rape attacks. However, if they do get raped, I hope they enjoy it! LOL

Thebigbee

Veronese68 wrote:

The locks I linked to are not very obvious from the outside. A couple of chrome escutcheons that cover the key holes and 2 coach bolts on each. If you were to paint them the same colour as the door they would hardly show at all. You'd have to get the chrome off before painting the escutcheons.

Thanks a lot of the advice. Think I will go for these as they seem the least obtrusive and discreet. Have emailed the seller in regards to fitting advice as I assume that fairly big holes are going to have to be cut out the door to fit and I don't want to get it wrong. Is that right?

Thanks again for the heads up and tips on painting. You think that International all surface primer would work before painting?

Cheers

BigJimmyB

Thebigbee wrote:

Anyone got any suggestions for a padlock that fits through that small hole?

Make the hole bigger to fit a sturdier padlock?

I also add at least two bolts, one top, one bottom. Either rivet or bolt them in (use araldite to glue the nut to the bolt), that way a screwdriver won't work.

It's all about slowing them down (the thieves), but if the communal block is 'unoccupied' for a decent amount of time, they'll probbaly have enough time to nick the bikes.

Bikes anchored internally wouldn't make much difference IMHO. If I were the thief, I'd break in then close the door while I worked on freeing the bikes.

Good luck

veronese68

Quite big holes for the bolts into the frame. 13mm without the reinforcing sleeve, 17mm to put the steel sleeve in. The sleeve also helps as it has a sighlt funnel shape to help guide the bolt in. I think about a 13mm hole for the key, with a couple of small holes to rivet the covers on. Plus holes for the coach bolts, 7 or 8mm at a guess. As I said be very careful about getting the holes in the frame lined up. My door is quite old and moves around on it's mounts and if it's not in the right place I have to push and pull it a bit to lock them.
I'd say they're not hard to fit, just double check before you drill any holes. Measure twice, cut once as the old saying goes.
Regarding the painting not much will stick to chrome as it's so shiny. I would rub it down until you get rid of any shine, then wipe it over with thinners before using a good primer.

secretdancer

This page provides fitting instructions for the asec garage door bolts. Scroll down the page to see the locks.

Thebigbee

BigJimmyB wrote:

Thebigbee wrote:

Anyone got any suggestions for a padlock that fits through that small hole?

Make the hole bigger to fit a sturdier padlock?

I also add at least two bolts, one top, one bottom. Either rivet or bolt them in (use araldite to glue the nut to the bolt), that way a screwdriver won't work.

It's all about slowing them down (the thieves), but if the communal block is 'unoccupied' for a decent amount of time, they'll probbaly have enough time to nick the bikes.

Bikes anchored internally wouldn't make much difference IMHO. If I were the thief, I'd break in then close the door while I worked on freeing the bikes.

Good luck

Doh! - I really am one of those people that can only see the logic and sense once it has been laid down in black and white! Probably the best advice about the padlock.

Completely agree with you about the wall anchor - if they got in the garage unnoticed so easily then they have time to do what the hell they like. And if they found it was locked to the wall very securely they are the types of scumbags who would probably fcuk the bike up and wreck it just cos they can!

alan_sherman

Fit a garage door defender. Sold secure rate them for a reason. They are not foolproof, but to get past one will make a lot of noise (e.g. folding the door will be noisy). They are very common so does not really mark out a garage as special. I fitted one a few years back and went through a number of drill bits due to the lumps of granite in the reinforced concrete floor (sparks flying when drilling is fun).

If I were to do it again I would look for a fitting service - if you can get one fitted for £100 or so it is worth paying someone else to do the drilling! And lock good bikes up inside - i used to hang mine from the wall and lock then through the rafters. Pub and wife's bike were not locked inside.

After a spate of break ins the block management should be considering security so see if they can get a discount for getting them fitted to all garages at the same time.

fossyant

As for an alarm - fit a shed alarm with PIR - this is what I have in my garage - as soon as the door is opened, it pings, gives you 20 seconds to disarm with a fob, otherwise it's ear slpitting. About £20 from the usual places.

Most of the time it's an opportunist.

The guy that attempted ours, disabled all the security lights (climbed up and undid the bulbs), tried to pick the glass from the side door (internally glazed) then went for the window (which I knew was weak). How the idiot didn't spot the bars. The garage door already had extra locks on and can't actually be opened from the inside, and the side door is internally padlocked and shoot bolted shut - again can't be opened.

After the incident, on went more bars and PIR/window alarms. We've also had fitted a fcuk off super bright security light, high up (aimed straight down so not to p1ss off the neighbours).

Thebigbee

fossyant wrote:

As for an alarm - fit a shed alarm with PIR - this is what I have in my garage - as soon as the door is opened, it pings, gives you 20 seconds to disarm with a fob, otherwise it's ear slpitting. About £20 from the usual places.

Most of the time it's an opportunist.

The guy that attempted ours, disabled all the security lights (climbed up and undid the bulbs), tried to pick the glass from the side door (internally glazed) then went for the window (which I knew was weak). How the idiot didn't spot the bars. The garage door already had extra locks on and can't actually be opened from the inside, and the side door is internally padlocked and shoot bolted shut - again can't be opened.

After the incident, on went more bars and PIR/window alarms. We've also had fitted a fcuk off super bright security light, high up (aimed straight down so not to p1ss off the neighbours).

Seems like really good advice. Sounds like your garage was specifically targeted - because the measures he attempted certainly don't seem amateur or opportunist!

The twisted irony is that literally 2 days before, after servicing the bloody bike!! - I was realising quite how much I loved that hybrid - it was perfect for my needs - and was thinking that this would be a "bike for life"!

I was contemplating eventually getting a MTB and in the future upgrading my road bike. That was also my winter / wet weather bike and am now at square 1.

What pees me off about the legal system is that if they even get caught, they don't get punished. That was my primary mode of transport. If you drive a car, that was your primary or only mode of transport, and they caught that person, you'd want them to get sent to prison wouldn't you?

I asked the police if I was likely to get the bike back. The response literally, was, "Nah! Unless we serve a warrant on someone and it turns up, you haven't got much chance".

Wow - thanks for putting in the effort to find it!

I am certain that within a couple of hours on Ebay/ Gumtree - I could produce 300 sellers blatantly selling counterfeit goods and 200 selling stolen bikes or parts from stolen bikes.

veronese68

Keep watching Ebay and Gumtree. My bike was stolen and I found it on Ebay 6 weeks later, the day after I bought a replacement. It was deliberaltely slightly misadvertised but I knew it was my bike from the pictures. I then really had to pester the police to get them to do anything, in spite of having the frame number and various other bits of proof. Good luck.

Thebigbee

Veronese68 wrote:

Keep watching Ebay and Gumtree. My bike was stolen and I found it on Ebay 6 weeks later, the day after I bought a replacement. It was deliberaltely slightly misadvertised but I knew it was my bike from the pictures. I then really had to pester the police to get them to do anything, in spite of having the frame number and various other bits of proof. Good luck.

Thanks. Don't really hold up much hope but keep checking everyday. Noticed there is one seller selling the exact same bike and same size as mine but am pretty certain it isn't mine because of the upgrades I had made.

However - because I was so happy with the bike - I asked him a load of questions as he stated it was new. Simple questions like - if new, do you have some kind of proof of purchase, how many gears does it have, what groupset is on it?

Funnily enough I haven't received a response. But to top it off he has stated that the year of the model is completely wrong. Checking his low feedback score I noticed that he has less than double figures and has been selling mid ranged decent bikes for a while - receiving negative feedback for over a third of his sales!

I definitely think that bike shops should take a bit more responsibility. When I made a claim in the beginning of the year for a second hand bike I bought off Gumtree - the guy gave me a written receipt. He had lost the original receipt but found out the credit card transaction with the shop he purchased it from. When I phoned them to try and get frame numbers etc - they stated that they didn't keep them!

How hard is it, and shouldn't they do it for their own security, for a shop to keep a database of the frame numbers of every bike they sell?