training to improve ascents

paulmgreen

I am pretty new to riding..... Only about 6 months of regular riding... But have done the last two 'Fun Races' at Thetford. whilst I am quite happy with speed and general technique especially on the downhill parts and berms etc...... But where I am struggling is with strength and stamina to keep speed on any inclines, where I am rapidly losing speed and find my self being passed by people I immediately gain on or pass back on anything that ain't uphill!

What is the recommendation to enable me to improve on the climbing part.... Whether it be steep or gently uphill!

is it a case of doing lots more of it and building leg strength from this or what else can I do to specifically improve in this area ??

1mancity2

Pretty much what you thought, just find a hill and session it, time yourself up it (go steady on your first run), coast back down and repeat.
Do around 3 or 4 runs each session and you want a hill that takes you more than a minute to get up first time.

Do around 3 times a week and you will soon be flying up hils.

styxd

How heavy are you? You can gain fitness as the post above suggests, but the fastest people up the hills are the lightest.

paulmgreen

Thanks Fellas... as I thought!

As to weight....... losing it quickly!

Ghostt

It's worth brushing up on your technique at the same time too. Different people prefer different methods and it's often a case of trial and error working out what you're comfortable with. Some like changing down early and spinning up, others like me like to attack the slope in a higher gear and change down nearer the top to maintain momentum.

CharlieH

I'm the same and started a similar topic
viewtopic.php?f=20024&t=12803320

I've since bought a turbo trainer and started sessioning hills a lot more. The problem is I've not managed to get out with any of my usual riding buddies so I've no idea how much difference it has made. However, one thing I did do was buy a cheap cycle computer with cadence (£15 from cyclestore) to see what I'm doing wrong and found I dont spin nearly enough. Since then I've tried to keep my cadence at around 80-90 rpm on hills and it did seem to help my stamina. Just not sure how it's affected my speed though as that was part of the original problem, getting left on any hill

giantAstax

Wot they've said. Just to add though that technique is very important. Drop those wrists and keep low, move body weight over front without losing rear traction. Also I think you'd benefit from spinning. Choose a gear that allows you to spin as it will engage your slow twitch fibres in the muscles which will help conserve energy.

As you get fitter you can push faster/harder without knackerring yourself. As for improving fitness, I don't think anything improves climbing better than, erm climbing. Find a hill that not too tough and practice riding up it.

ollie51

giantAstax wrote:

Choose a gear that allows you to spin as it will engage your slow twitch fibres in the muscles which will help conserve energy.

The higher the cadence the more fast twitch fibres involved, you have to push harder to make the cranks turn faster, if they're turning faster you muscles are contracting faster. For longer climbs, going for a slower cadence is actually more conservative.

The climbs Sunday last weren't particularly long, and going for a higher cadence would be faster, but not as efficient. If you were struggling riding up the double shocker, pick a nice spinny gear, get your thumbs on top of your bars, don't drop your wrists and just shift your weight accordingly.

In terms of training, just ride more than you do, then some more. Yeah sure doing the odd hill rep is useful but you live in east anglia (I presume) and lets be honest, there's little point in hill reps. If you are going to do them, find the longest/steepest hill near to where you live and just ride up it as fast as you possibly can 4-8 times.

giantAstax

ollie51 wrote:

giantAstax wrote:

Choose a gear that allows you to spin as it will engage your slow twitch fibres in the muscles which will help conserve energy.

The higher the cadence the more fast twitch fibres involved, you have to push harder to make the cranks turn faster, if they're turning faster you muscles are contracting faster. For longer climbs, going for a slower cadence is actually more conservative.

The climbs Sunday last weren't particularly long, and going for a higher cadence would be faster, but not as efficient. If you were struggling riding up the double shocker, pick a nice spinny gear, get your thumbs on top of your bars, don't drop your wrists and just shift your weight accordingly.

In terms of training, just ride more than you do, then some more. Yeah sure doing the odd hill rep is useful but you live in east anglia (I presume) and lets be honest, there's little point in hill reps. If you are going to do them, find the longest/steepest hill near to where you live and just ride up it as fast as you possibly can 4-8 times.

I see we disagree on nearly every point. Ah well that's life. Here's a quote from http://www.lifetimeendurance.com/public/390.cfm

The make up of your leg muscles, the ratio of fast twitch muscles vs. slow twitch muscles combined with your fitness will determine your ideal cadence. Low cadence requires us to push harder on the pedals (mashing). To generate this force your leg muscles must recruit faster twitch muscles than slow twitch.

Personally i avoid mashing and use the granny and a decent cadence as i said, it works for me. I attended a training course in August which was where the climbing technique was taught, practiced, perfected and worked for me.

ollie51

giantAstax wrote:

ollie51 wrote:

giantAstax wrote:

Choose a gear that allows you to spin as it will engage your slow twitch fibres in the muscles which will help conserve energy.

The higher the cadence the more fast twitch fibres involved, you have to push harder to make the cranks turn faster, if they're turning faster you muscles are contracting faster. For longer climbs, going for a slower cadence is actually more conservative.

The climbs Sunday last weren't particularly long, and going for a higher cadence would be faster, but not as efficient. If you were struggling riding up the double shocker, pick a nice spinny gear, get your thumbs on top of your bars, don't drop your wrists and just shift your weight accordingly.

In terms of training, just ride more than you do, then some more. Yeah sure doing the odd hill rep is useful but you live in east anglia (I presume) and lets be honest, there's little point in hill reps. If you are going to do them, find the longest/steepest hill near to where you live and just ride up it as fast as you possibly can 4-8 times.

I see we disagree on nearly every point. Ah well that's life. Here's a quote from http://www.lifetimeendurance.com/public/390.cfm

The make up of your leg muscles, the ratio of fast twitch muscles vs. slow twitch muscles combined with your fitness will determine your ideal cadence. Low cadence requires us to push harder on the pedals (mashing). To generate this force your leg muscles must recruit faster twitch muscles than slow twitch.

Personally i avoid mashing and use the granny and a decent cadence as i said, it works for me. I attended a training course in August which was where the climbing technique was taught, practiced, perfected and worked for me.

Yes, c'est la vie.

It's a bit of generalised statement that the higher the cadence the more fast twitch fibres involved, and it's not always true, there's a crossover and ultimately it all comes down to how well trained you are.

It's essentially the speed of the contraction and the force required that dictates the type of muscular fibre used, since you use power (technically angular velocity)to determine how fast you'll go(and other variables), cadence x force required = power since the idea is to keep a constant cadence and just to change the gears accordingly (and as we move down the block the ratio of Fast to slow fibres increases) and the cadence should remain a constant, however we will obviously change our cadence and therefore the force will vary if we wish to keep the power constant. (i'm finding this really difficult to explain without drawing a graph...) So if, you were to run a singlespeed, you increase cadence to ride faster and vice versa, and the force required to turn the pedals remains constant, so therefore you have to contract your muscles faster to go faster, which means you employ your fast twitch fibres and therefore use more energy. Thus pedalling faster=more fast twitch fibres in use=more energy used=greater output (watts).

It depends on the way you look at it, people who pedal at lower cadence will generally push harder gears than those who do the opposite, and both will use a similar composition of muscles fibres, used in differing ways.

What I've said is what I've been told by a few sport science lecturers, so I'd hope what they've told me is correct.

I think to put it simply, the faster and the harder you pedal, the more fast twitch fibres involved.

paulmgreen

Thanks for all the input fellas!

timpop

And to go with all that, if you can face it, is to go to the gym and pump some iron. That will definitely help, especially if you're getting into racing.

paulmgreen

I have been trying to include hills on my recent rides and have been noting times / speeds going up them. I am definItely maintaining higher speeds up them. And a couple that I was almost stopping going uP are now completed with relative ease ! Good news!

1mancity2

paulmgreen wrote:

I have been trying to include hills on my recent rides and have been noting times / speeds going up them. I am definItely maintaining higher speeds up them. And a couple that I was almost stopping going uP are now completed with relative ease ! Good news!

Keep at it