Wheel ponderings

suzyb
suzyb Posts: 3,449
edited December 2011 in Commuting chat
Whenever the question about what should be upgraded on a bike first is asked the answer is usually wheels. And there seems to be a lot of wheel purchasing going on around the forums. So I was thinking of getting new ones for my Giant.

I started looking for the weight of the current wheels to compare with the components I planned to get. And I got to thinking, is there really a point in a fat fu...person like myself upgrading to save 100g when I still have to haul my extra stones around. Or is better wheels about more than just weight.
Whippet

Comments

  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,318
    Wheel weight has a greater effect than weight anywhere else because you have to get the wheel spinning. By the same token weight at the rim has a greater effect than weight at the hub.
    Lighter wheels are easier to get spinning, so you can accelerate more easily.
    If you then get into dealing with suspension the weight has an even greater effect because a heavy wheel makes it harder for the suspension to react.
    Kinesis Pro6
    Marin Nail Trail
    Cotic Solaris
  • Torvid
    Torvid Posts: 449
    There is also how good the hubs are, better hubs will roll free.

    You could take the chance to go for something a little more aero too.
    Commuter: Forme Vision Red/Black FCN 4
    Weekender: White/Black - Cube Agree GTC pro FCN 3
  • walkingbootweather
    walkingbootweather Posts: 2,443
    For commuting don't worry too much about weight or aerodynamics. A good quality wheel is however a worthwhile upgrade. Good hand-built wheels will last you years and are unlikely to let you down. Expect to pay upwards of £150 a pair from most of the recommended builders, or if you're brave you can build yourself a set for a good deal less. I'm a fan of Spa cycles.
    Nobody told me we had a communication problem
  • suzyb
    suzyb Posts: 3,449
    It's not for commuting tbh, I don't actually commute by bike. I just like you guys in this forum :oops:

    I'm limited to what I can get as it's 650c wheels. Don't think I can get pre-built so they would be custom. A local guy builds them so I was thinking of going to him.

    What really got me thinking about it was when I noticed the weight of the rims I was looking at compared to the ones on the bike. They're both, the Mavic open pros I was looking at and the Alex Da22s on the bike, 390g. Although I'd save weight elsewhere (assuming the info I found about the forumla hubs is correct) I just wondered if there was a point in upgrading just to save maybe 150 / 200 grams.
    Whippet
  • walkingbootweather
    walkingbootweather Posts: 2,443
    Its a combination of weight, strength and price - you can have 2 but not all 3 (relatively).

    Light weight + strong = £££££ - what I'd go for if you are rich, or a professional
    Light + cheap = weak - what to go for for occassional racing but potential to fail if used robustly
    strong + cheap = heavy. - better for abuse but won't be super fast.
    Nobody told me we had a communication problem
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,660
    suzyb wrote:
    It's not for commuting tbh, I don't actually commute by bike. I just like you guys in this forum :oops:

    I'm limited to what I can get as it's 650c wheels. Don't think I can get pre-built so they would be custom. A local guy builds them so I was thinking of going to him.

    What really got me thinking about it was when I noticed the weight of the rims I was looking at compared to the ones on the bike. They're both, the Mavic open pros I was looking at and the Alex Da22s on the bike, 390g. Although I'd save weight elsewhere (assuming the info I found about the forumla hubs is correct) I just wondered if there was a point in upgrading just to save maybe 150 / 200 grams.

    I'll gloss over your first admission. Short answer: no, upgrading to save 150-200g is a bit pointless unless everything else (including the rider) is pared down to the minimum. upgrading for better strength and durability, and smoother running is well worth it though.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • meanredspider
    meanredspider Posts: 12,337
    You also need to think about what tyres you are using with them as these are at the extreme of the radius and have more impact. There's no point in upgrading to nice wheels and continuing to use a heavy, slow-rolling tyre (Bonti Hard Cases for instance).

    I stuck some RS80s on my Cayo and, apart from being lighter, I was struck how they improved the quality/comfort of the ride over the RS10s the bike came with.

    But, yes, if you are going to remove weight from anywhere on the bike, the rims of your wheels is the best place to start.
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • suzyb
    suzyb Posts: 3,449
    I'm going to get new tyres anyway. Looking at the Vittoria Rubino Pros (650 x 23) atm.
    Whippet
  • mtb-idle
    mtb-idle Posts: 2,179
    Get some of these, they will make all the difference.
    FCN = 4
  • Headhuunter
    Headhuunter Posts: 6,494
    meanredspider wrote:
    I stuck some RS80s on my Cayo and, apart from being lighter, I was struck how they improved the quality/comfort of the ride over the RS10s the bike came with.

    Yep, I upgraded my Cayo from WHR550s to RS80s andd although the weight wasn't much different, the RS80s were a noticeable improvement, largely due to their stiffness. If I hammered it up a hill out of the saddle, the WHR550s would flex to the extent that the wheels would hit the brake pads. The RS80s don't seem to flex at all and I can feel the power transferring into foward movement very effectively...
    Do not write below this line. Office use only.
  • UndercoverElephant
    UndercoverElephant Posts: 5,796
    suzyb wrote:
    I'm going to get new tyres anyway. Looking at the Vittoria Rubino Pros (650 x 23) atm.

    Good answer: you'll notice a good difference with good tyres.

    A good set of hand-built wheels will feel a lot different to the ones you have, if the wheels that came with my BeOne are anything to go by. Good hubs will roll better, good spokes will save you weight and make for a much stronger, stiffer wheel. The rims may not save you any weight, but the wheel will feel much better. Just make sure that your builder uses high-quality (Sapim or DT Swiss), double-butted spokes on the build. I've heard good things about this guy:

    http://www.wheelcraft.net/

    He's quite near to you, I think.
    Sun - Rain - Snow
  • Torvid
    Torvid Posts: 449
    +1 on the tyre switched from schwable ultermo and much prefer the Vittoria
    Commuter: Forme Vision Red/Black FCN 4
    Weekender: White/Black - Cube Agree GTC pro FCN 3
  • sketchley
    sketchley Posts: 4,238
    Suzyb, "Extra Stones" you say. I have few of them too... I would strongly recommend speaking to a good wheel builder. I would suggest a chat with Harry Rowland, he likes to chat you can find him on google. Trouble is that lighter wheels are likely to flex more with a heavier rider which means power being lost and not transferred to road. So any advantage gained in weight loss on the wheel might be lost in flex on the same wheel. Note lighter wheels are often designed for approx 60kg riders who don't flex them as much.
    --
    Chris

    Genesis Equilibrium - FCN 3/4/5
  • suzyb
    suzyb Posts: 3,449
    Trigger pulled on new tyres :D
    Whippet
  • Cafewanda
    Cafewanda Posts: 2,788
    Suzy if I follow your example before next summer I'm going to blame you for the next 2 years. Been thinking about new wheels for the SS and the roadie, but can only afford to do one. Logic dictates the SS should be first as that's my commuting bike, but I've not been logical for a while...... :roll: :)
  • desweller
    desweller Posts: 5,175
    Well Suzy as you are a fairly analytical person (in software IIRC?) may I suggest you get Roger Musson's book and have a shot at building yourself a pair of wheels?
    - - - - - - - - - -
    On Strava.{/url}
  • suzyb
    suzyb Posts: 3,449
    Cafewanda wrote:
    Suzy if I follow your example before next summer I'm going to blame you for the next 2 years. Been thinking about new wheels for the SS and the roadie, but can only afford to do one. Logic dictates the SS should be first as that's my commuting bike, but I've not been logical for a while...... :roll: :)
    I haven't bought any wheels yet. Am still thinking about it (and leaning toward not getting them yet).

    I may be in software (web development specifically) but I wouldn't say I was analytical. Doesn't really take an analytical brain, actually it doesn't really take a brain to create the same website over and over.
    Whippet
  • Wallace1492
    Wallace1492 Posts: 3,707
    New tyres will make a difference. I would not get new wheels just for the sake of it. I would only consider it if I was trying to shave a few minutes off a century time or go for a sub 3hr Etape Caledonia. And then only if I had shaved off all the weight I could from myself - which is not going to happen for me!

    For general road rides there really is no point, and I am happy to plod along on the spec that came with the Tricross. Though i do want to get sub 4.30 for the Etape!
    "Encyclopaedia is a fetish for very small bicycles"
  • UndercoverElephant
    UndercoverElephant Posts: 5,796
    Wallace1492 wrote:
    New tyres will make a difference. I would not get new wheels just for the sake of it. I would only consider it if I was trying to shave a few minutes off a century time or go for a sub 3hr Etape Caledonia. And then only if I had shaved off all the weight I could from myself - which is not going to happen for me!

    For general road rides there really is no point, and I am happy to plod along on the spec that came with the Tricross. Though i do want to get sub 4.30 for the Etape!

    It depends what your reference point is, though, Wallace. If you've only really used the stock wheels on the Tricross, you may not know what you're missing. A wheel upgrade makes a massive difference, perhaps because stock wheels are so bad. When I upgraded the wheels on the BeOne from stock to Pro-Lite Braccianos, the difference was astounding - the bike felt completely different: lighter, stiffer, easier to accelerate and more fun. Even my heavy home-made commuting wheels knock seven shades out of stock wheels.
    Sun - Rain - Snow
  • richVSrich
    richVSrich Posts: 527
    Suzy - guess you didnt get new wheels?

    For example - would it be worth me upgrading my boardman hybrid wheels? - is it me or is it really difficult to find disc brake 700c wheels?
    Boardman Hybrid Commuter Workhorse
  • meanredspider
    meanredspider Posts: 12,337
    richVSrich wrote:
    For example - would it be worth me upgrading my boardman hybrid wheels? - is it me or is it really difficult to find disc brake 700c wheels?

    Nope - it's difficult. I bought some Wilkinson's wheels through Parker's of Bolton. But you have to ask why you want to upgrade. Likelihood is you will just end up with something similar unless you have some made for you by a wheelbuilder.
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • suzyb
    suzyb Posts: 3,449
    I didn't, just got new tyres. Thinking of a new bike next year so am going to wait.
    Whippet
  • Wrath Rob
    Wrath Rob Posts: 2,918
    richVSrich wrote:
    For example - would it be worth me upgrading my boardman hybrid wheels? - is it me or is it really difficult to find disc brake 700c wheels?
    The most effective upgrade would be to the wheels and the bike attached to them. Get a road bike! ;)
    FCN3: Titanium Qoroz.
  • richVSrich
    richVSrich Posts: 527
    Wrath Rob wrote:
    richVSrich wrote:
    For example - would it be worth me upgrading my boardman hybrid wheels? - is it me or is it really difficult to find disc brake 700c wheels?
    The most effective upgrade would be to the wheels and the bike attached to them. Get a road bike! ;)

    hahaha i know i know! i cant just yet though!... boooo! the hybrid helps me keep my fcn down though :P
    Boardman Hybrid Commuter Workhorse

Categories