Emergency vehicles

velocestrapture

What do you do when cycling when an emergency vehicle needs to overtake you?

Obviously, if your presence on the road is impeding them in any way the answer is to do whatever is necessary to get out of their way. But if the road is wide and clear enough for them to overtake you without you slowing down or stopping, do you do so anyway just as you would in a car, or do you keep on pedalling at the same speed?

W1

velocestrapture wrote:

What do you do when cycling when an emergency vehicle needs to overtake you?

Obviously, if your presence on the road is impeding them in any way the answer is to do whatever is necessary to get out of their way. But if the road is wide and clear enough for them to overtake you without you slowing down or stopping, do you do so anyway just as you would in a car, or do you keep on pedalling at the same speed?

Get out of the way if possible - if necessary, into a road, driveway etc etc. It's just one less thing for them to worry about.

As an aside, emergency vehicles pose a particular danger for urban cyclists, due to drivers' immediate reaction being to dive straight into cycle lanes without looking - another reason to get right out of the way.

CyclingBantam

Its funny as I have been passed by emergancy vehicles twice in the last week, both times on quite a wide road with plenty of room to pass but I still find myself pulling in a little and slowing down. Probably makes absolutely no difference whatsoever to them but I would obviously rather do that than some how get in their way.

I guess my main thinking is that I know what I'm doing but they may not know I know what I'm doing... if that makes sense!

willy b

I'd slow down, and pull in.

Was chatting to my mate about commuting to work on bike, and he said that he got knocked off by an Ambulance, it didn't even stop!

asprilla

I pull to the kerb and usually stop. I don't really want to be a distraction for the driver, or for anyone else who is around at the time and trying to get out of the way.

bails87

If you're driving along and there's an emergency vehicle behind you, it might not be best for you to stop immediately.

After all, it's better for it to be stuck behind you doing 30mph, than to be stuck behind you doing 0mph.

highway code advice:

When one approaches do not panic. Consider the route of such a vehicle and take appropriate action to let it pass, while complying with all traffic signs. If necessary, pull to the side of the road and stop, but try to avoid stopping before the brow of a hill, a bend or narrow section of road. Do not endanger yourself, other road users or pedestrians and avoid mounting the kerb. Do not brake harshly on approach to a junction or roundabout, as a following vehicle may not have the same view as you

Oddly enough, I knew a paramedic who complained that motorists didn't mount the kerb to get out of their way. Apparently, on the emergency driving course they were taught that drivers should do this :?

Kieran_Burns

Think about it in terms of their decision making... if you shoulder check then indicate (arm out) that you are pulling in; then slow down and do so, this will tell the Ambulance driver that you are aware of him and acting accordingly. He can evaluate his response based on the information you're giving him.

If you make no apparent change he simply will not know if you are aware of him and have to act on that. You're making his life harder by not responding.

You need to make these guys live as easy as possible - blue lighting emergency vehicles have a reason for those lights and doing everything we can to help is always best.

(he says fondly remembering doing 90+ on the M42 being followed by 4 blue lighting police cars, and being thanked!)

rick_chasey

willy b wrote:

Was chatting to my mate about commuting to work on bike, and he said that he got knocked off by an Ambulance, it didn't even stop!

Even if an ambulance causes another ambulance worthy injury, it must continue on to the original destination and call in another ambulance.

At least, that's what I remember being told once.

prj45

Don't try and predict their path for a start.

I pull up (when practical) and watch it so the driver knows I've seen them and doesn't have to worry about it.

DoctorD

Try coasting, but maintain your course, that way the driver will understand you are aware of their presence, avoid slowing down near a traffic island (a motorist favourite). The trained driver will get round you with the minimum of fuss. (hopefully)

Origamist

It depends on the circumstances: sometimes I slow, sometimes I pull in and stop, sometimes I hop onto the pavement, sometimes I maintain speed and position. All of these can facilitate the progress of emergency vehicles, but it depends on the traffic conditions. What is key, is that you need to be extremely vigilant in heavy traffic.

Generally speaking, the real problem with how to cope with these situations is not the emergency vehicle itself, but the ripple/shrapnel-effect it has on other road users who often act idiotically when confronted with an emergency vehicle.

Ben6899

Rick Chasey wrote:

willy b wrote:

Was chatting to my mate about commuting to work on bike, and he said that he got knocked off by an Ambulance, it didn't even stop!

Even if an ambulance causes another ambulance worthy injury, it must continue on to the original destination and call in another ambulance.

At least, that's what I remember being told once.

It's all to do with how critical accident response times are i.e. very critical. If some poor sap has been waiting 5mins for an ambulance and then you get "his" as it knocks you over, then he has to wait another 5mins. And he might not have 5mins to spare.

WisePranker

Rick Chasey wrote:

willy b wrote:

Was chatting to my mate about commuting to work on bike, and he said that he got knocked off by an Ambulance, it didn't even stop!

Even if an ambulance causes another ambulance worthy injury, it must continue on to the original destination and call in another ambulance.

At least, that's what I remember being told once.

That's rubbish, whoever told you that is wrong..

If an ambulance is involved in an accident on the way to a call, they must stop the same as any other vehicle. They can claim various exemptions from the road traffic act but stopping at the scene of an accident isn't one of them.
From a personal point of view, if I'm heading to a call and I've clipped your mirror, I'll stop. If it's a 'proper' call I won't. It's not the right thing to do but sometimes needs must.
If I've knocked you off your bike on the way to a call, I'll stop regardless. If I stop to see you after the accident, another ambulance will be dispatched to the original call I was going on.

As for getting out of the way for ambulances, my personal preference is that you do what you can within reason to get out of the way but whatever you do or don't do, try to at least give some kind of signal as to what you're gonna do!

Ben6899

WisePranker wrote:

If I've knocked you off your bike on the way to a call, I'll stop regardless. If I stop to see you after the accident, another ambulance will be dispatched to the original call I was going on.

Thanks for the clarification. I was sure you would be expected to attend the original call.

Every day is a school day.

willy b

Rick Chasey wrote:

willy b wrote:

Was chatting to my mate about commuting to work on bike, and he said that he got knocked off by an Ambulance, it didn't even stop!

Even if an ambulance causes another ambulance worthy injury, it must continue on to the original destination and call in another ambulance.

At least, that's what I remember being told once.

Fair enough if he was "on call" but he wasn't... :shock:

bails87

willy b wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

willy b wrote:

Was chatting to my mate about commuting to work on bike, and he said that he got knocked off by an Ambulance, it didn't even stop!

Even if an ambulance causes another ambulance worthy injury, it must continue on to the original destination and call in another ambulance.

At least, that's what I remember being told once.

Fair enough if he was "on call" but he wasn't... :shock:

Even if the ambulance was on it's way to a job, I'd be shocked if they had to carry on.

What if an ambulance smooshes a cyclist, leaving them needed urgent, life saving treatment, and they say no, can't help with that, we've got to go to scrape another drunk off the pavement (big yellow taxi? ). ADmittedly it dcould be an elbow bruised by a wing mirror as the ambo is on it's way to a suspected heart attack, but discretion and a bit of sense would have to be applied rather than "nope leave him dying in the road, someone's phoned up because they've got a sore toe" (it happens!).

secretsam

1. Paramedic response times are monitored - they have average response times, which vary according to the category of shout
2. The "get the f**k out of the way" rules apply only to blue light shouts - if they aren't lit up, you treat them as any other van
3. The advice I've had from paramedics is slow down, get out of the way, but be obvious and predictable - don't just STOP suddenly
4. the thing about carrying on regardless if they hit you sounds like bo11ocks to me, UNLESS they have a fare on board already - in which case they might carry on regardless
5. Any paramedic involved in an RTC is - as far as I know - suspended whilst an investigation is carried out. Apparently the paperwork is a nightmare, so they try to avoid prangs . I met one once whose colleague had rolled his wagon in a collision (other drivers' fault) and all he seemed bothered about was the paperwork - not the £100k+ ambulance that he'd totalled (!) (PS no fare on board)

That exhausts my limited knowledge of the ways of the blue lighters...

Source: I'm a healthcare planner, 20 years working in and with the NHS - but as yet not done an ambulance project (would love to do one, though - have always wanted to do a 'ride along'!!!!)

WisePranker

SecretSam wrote:

4. the thing about carrying on regardless if they hit you sounds like bo11ocks to me, UNLESS they have a fare on board already - in which case they might carry on regardless
5. Any paramedic involved in an RTC is - as far as I know - suspended whilst an investigation is carried out. Apparently the paperwork is a nightmare, so they try to avoid prangs . I met one once whose colleague had rolled his wagon in a collision (other drivers' fault) and all he seemed bothered about was the paperwork - not the £100k+ ambulance that he'd totalled (!) (PS no fare on board)

4. They should stop, the same as anyone else but in certain cases, and they are few and far between, I personally wouldn't. Thankfully I've never been in the predicament where I've had to make this decision!

5. I can't speak for other services, but here in London, you don't get suspended and unless it's something very serious, no proper investigation is carried out. If we got suspended for having an RTC, some people would never be at work

redvee

In the centre of Bristol sirens are a too common sound and with the buildings reflecting the sound you have to look to see where it's coming from and where it's going, it can be 20 seconds from hearing to seeing. I've heard sirens and pulled over only to find the car behind me as used this opportunity to overtake me

nich

Pretty much a daily occurrence around Lewisham / Catford way, especially now the mornings/nights are dark.

I've become adept at getting the F! out the way of them. Usually I'll pull up onto the pavement and just let the chaos pass.

They do annoy me though when they don't have the sirens on. I don't really understand why they speed around with flashing lights and no sirens?

NGale

Rick Chasey wrote:

willy b wrote:

Was chatting to my mate about commuting to work on bike, and he said that he got knocked off by an Ambulance, it didn't even stop!

Even if an ambulance causes another ambulance worthy injury, it must continue on to the original destination and call in another ambulance.

At least, that's what I remember being told once.

No, if an ambulance is on an emergency call and becomes involved in another accident they must stop as any other vechicle would. They then have to inform central control who will then dispatch another ambulance to the orginial emergency call while the crew on the scene of the new incident do whatever they have to do there (control will also call the police as RTC = police involvement, even if the casulaty doesn't want them involved)

SecretSam: if your working in the NHS, you know you can contact the local ambulance service and try and arrange a days third manning, most of the time they are very ameniable to fellow NHS workers witnessing and understanding what they do as it creates a better understanding that paramedics are more than just glorified taxi drivers (which a lot of doctors seem to think is the case)

MichaelW

The danger isn't just from a emergency vehicle. You and everyone else pulls into the side, the ambulance passes and you carry on, but driver behind you tries a sneaky overtake just as you are swinging out into the road.
Also watch out for drivers avoiding ambulances by driving onto you.

secretsam

WisePranker wrote:

5. I can't speak for other services, but here in London, you don't get suspended and unless it's something very serious, no proper investigation is carried out. If we got suspended for having an RTC, some people would never be at work

I called that one wrong then - was sure you got put on gardening leave

Do you have lots of prangs then? I've heard tales of wagons getting sideways around roundabouts (with a passenger on board ) but not actual contact - apart from that one prang (outside the Churchill in Oxford)

secretsam

NGale wrote:

No, if an ambulance is on an emergency call and becomes involved in another accident they must stop as any other vechicle would. They then have to inform central control who will then dispatch another ambulance to the orginial emergency call while the crew on the scene of the new incident do whatever they have to do there (control will also call the police as RTC = police involvement, even if the casulaty doesn't want them involved)

SecretSam: if your working in the NHS, you know you can contact the local ambulance service and try and arrange a days third manning, most of the time they are very ameniable to fellow NHS workers witnessing and understanding what they do as it creates a better understanding that paramedics are more than just glorified taxi drivers (which a lot of doctors seem to think is the case)

Sadly, I'm in the big bad private sector, so blagging a ride along would probably be viewed as a bit cheeky - will have to wait for a nice project to land in my lap ! Thanks for the top tip, however - and I'm not a GP (wash your mouth out) and I appreciate only too well from having met some paramedics what they do is more than zooming around in a funny van

What's the protocol if you're on a shout and you've picked up your ??terminology??) patient/passenger/fare (!) and you clip someone???

NGale

SecretSam wrote:

NGale wrote:

No, if an ambulance is on an emergency call and becomes involved in another accident they must stop as any other vechicle would. They then have to inform central control who will then dispatch another ambulance to the orginial emergency call while the crew on the scene of the new incident do whatever they have to do there (control will also call the police as RTC = police involvement, even if the casulaty doesn't want them involved)

SecretSam: if your working in the NHS, you know you can contact the local ambulance service and try and arrange a days third manning, most of the time they are very ameniable to fellow NHS workers witnessing and understanding what they do as it creates a better understanding that paramedics are more than just glorified taxi drivers (which a lot of doctors seem to think is the case)

Sadly, I'm in the big bad private sector, so blagging a ride along would probably be viewed as a bit cheeky - will have to wait for a nice project to land in my lap ! Thanks for the top tip, however - and I'm not a GP (wash your mouth out) and I appreciate only too well from having met some paramedics what they do is more than zooming around in a funny van

What's the protocol if you're on a shout and you've picked up your ??terminology??) patient/passenger/fare (!) and you clip someone???

In my area if there is a paitent on board, providing they are not in a critical condition another ambulance will usually g ut to transfer the paitent while the crew and vechicle stay behind on scene. If there is a critical paitent the usually a CSO (clinical support officer) will go out to the scene of the incident and stand in while the police and another crew do what they need to. the crew involved in the incident will then be pulled off the road at the hospital and statements etc taken from there. I don't know about the protocol for other ambulance service trusts though, and that was the case with my area up until I left a year ago so don't know if it's changed since then.

WisePranker

SecretSam wrote:

WisePranker wrote:

5. I can't speak for other services, but here in London, you don't get suspended and unless it's something very serious, no proper investigation is carried out. If we got suspended for having an RTC, some people would never be at work

I called that one wrong then - was sure you got put on gardening leave

Do you have lots of prangs then? I've heard tales of wagons getting sideways around roundabouts (with a passenger on board ) but not actual contact - apart from that one prang (outside the Churchill in Oxford)

I don't personally have a lot of prangs, in fact only one so far, but on the whole there's a few each week in London. Most of them are minor knocks with the odd more serious one thrown in for good measure! I reckon from what I've seen, it's probably 50/50 with regards the crews fault or the publics.
I don't know how much the insurance cover costs each year but the last I heard, the insurance excess was £20k+ :shock: