spoke and nipple length advice

orienteerstu55

Hey guys

I'm putting together my 1st wheel, hope pro 2 - 135mm and mavic xm 719 rim 32 spokes. i have used a calculator and it suggests 270.4 and 269.6 mm left and right respectiveley. my question lies here

what size spokes do i buy based on these results ? 268mm ? what size nipples? and how do you get around the 1mm difference between left and right as sizes are all even??

any recommendations on what spokes/nipples to select ?

thanks for reading all help would be amazing I'm very new to this but keen to learn

nicklouse

Spokes do come in 1mm variations.

Spokes calls do tend to give the length with referance to the inputted nipple length. Which depends on the calc used.
The calc used also depends on how you would use the lengths given. Some you round up some you don't. Some you may use differing spoke lengths as you can. Which allows for a single spoke length to be used.

So I would go with 269 and whatever length of nipple in the program gives.

baznav73

270mm with 12mm nipples is what i would use.

benpinnick

Unless you're building a 4X pattern wheel, you're about 10mm out on the spoke lengths by my reckoning, they should be closer to 260mm (with 12mm nipples) on a 3 cross.

nicklouse

benpinnick wrote:

Unless you're building a 4X pattern wheel, you're about 10mm out on the spoke lengths by my reckoning, they should be closer to 260mm (with 12mm nipples) on a 3 cross.

The wonders of only half of the info.

orienteerstu55

sorry yeh i was going for a 3x and those were the results i obtained for that. 260mm how was i so far out ?

hmm ok thanks loads for that you saved me from buying the wrong ones.

benpinnick

So, just to recap...

You're building a hope Pro II rear onto Mavic 719 32h 3x. You'll need standard 12mm nipples which will come with the spokes. You would really want 261 on the disc side, and 260 on the drive, however, to make life a little easier, you can go with 260/260.

My spoke recommendations would be:

Lightest weight - DT Revolutions (xc use only mind)
Good weight/strength ratio - DT Supercomps
General usage - Sapim Race or DT Comp

Dont bother with Aluminium nipples, they're way too much hassle.

orienteerstu55

thanks very very very helpful il let you know if it is usable soon

mrmonkfinger

260mm sounds more like it.

I would recommend using a straight gauge spoke for your first ever wheel ever - one reason, they are easier to build with.

nicklouse

mrmonkfinger wrote:

260mm sounds more like it.

I would recommend using a straight gauge spoke for your first ever wheel ever - one reason, they are easier to build with.

I would disagree with that.

benpinnick

nicklouse wrote:

mrmonkfinger wrote:

260mm sounds more like it.

I would recommend using a straight gauge spoke for your first ever wheel ever - one reason, they are easier to build with.

I would disagree with that.

+1 for a disagree. I would _never_ use a plain gauge spoke for anything, well, anything wheel related anyhow.

mrmonkfinger

nicklouse wrote:

I would disagree with that.

Fair enough.

They wind up less, that is all. Agree?

benpinnick

If you oil the spoke treads, you shouldn't get any twisting on the build, at least none that should effect the build quality.

mrmonkfinger

I always use standard grease on spoke threads. I always get some wind up towards the end of the build.

So, am I putting too much tension on the spokes, or is standard grease inadequate?

benpinnick

Depends on what you mean by wind up - if you're twisting the spokes, thats bad, if they just move then resettle, thats fine. Either way, plain gauge is never the way to go. Even when building super tough DH wheels you never use plain gauge spokes, they are too prone to breaking at the head as they dont distribute the force well enough. (IMHO)

mrmonkfinger

benpinnick wrote:

Depends on what you mean by wind up - if you're twisting the spokes, thats bad, if they just move then resettle, thats fine.

Best described by Sheldon:

As the wheel begins to come into tension, you start to have to deal with spoke torsion. When you turn your spoke wrench, the spoke will first twist a bit from the friction of the threads. Once the nipple has turned far enough, the twist in the spoke will give enough resistance that the threads will start to move, but the spoke will remain twisted. What a good wheelbuilder can do that a robot machine can't do is feel this twist. If you "finish" your wheel up, and it is perfectly true in your stand, but the spokes are twisted, the wheel will not stay true on the road. The twist in the spokes will eventually work itself out, and the wheel will go out of true.

And that's with oiled threads...

Spoke threads and spoke holes in the rim should generally be lubricated with light grease or oil to allow the nipples to turn freely enough to get the spokes really tight.

benpinnick wrote:

Even when building super tough DH wheels you never use plain gauge spokes, they are too prone to breaking at the head as they dont distribute the force well enough. (IMHO)

Quite so.

S-M

I used 258mm and 260mm on the rear wheel i just built, and will be using 260mm on the front wheel once i order the rim on friday :-)

FWIW i used DT swiss plain gauge spokes intially using some bling red alloy nipples, but they were crap so i removed them as used the nipples that came with the spokes.

I would assume your spokes will come with nipples.

If my plain gauge spokes start to fail, i will replace them with some better ones, it is no big deal! infact i may just replace them with some upgraded versions just because i can :P

Wheel building is an overrated doddle.

Its nearly as bad as the car ecu "mapper" scene, where all the apparent secrets are hidden by black magic and voodo witchcraft, a lot of people said i would fail when i attempted that as well, yeah right!

mrmonkfinger

S-M wrote:

i used DT swiss plain gauge spokes

so, your choice:
1) lynched
2) burnt alive
2) thrown in a pond to see if you float, and then lynched if you do, and then burnt alive

:twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil:

benpinnick

mrmonkfinger wrote:

benpinnick wrote:

Depends on what you mean by wind up - if you're twisting the spokes, thats bad, if they just move then resettle, thats fine.

Best described by Sheldon:

As the wheel begins to come into tension, you start to have to deal with spoke torsion. When you turn your spoke wrench, the spoke will first twist a bit from the friction of the threads. Once the nipple has turned far enough, the twist in the spoke will give enough resistance that the threads will start to move, but the spoke will remain twisted. What a good wheelbuilder can do that a robot machine can't do is feel this twist. If you "finish" your wheel up, and it is perfectly true in your stand, but the spokes are twisted, the wheel will not stay true on the road. The twist in the spokes will eventually work itself out, and the wheel will go out of true.

And that's with oiled threads...

Spoke threads and spoke holes in the rim should generally be lubricated with light grease or oil to allow the nipples to turn freely enough to get the spokes really tight.

benpinnick wrote:

Even when building super tough DH wheels you never use plain gauge spokes, they are too prone to breaking at the head as they dont distribute the force well enough. (IMHO)

Quite so.

Twisting is a problem. The bigger the gauge difference in the butting the more prone to twisting they are. You can tell how badly you've twisted the spokes by placing the wheel on its axle on the ground and leaning your weight on it. If it makes alot of creaking noises, you've probably over tensioned and have twisted spokes, not too much noise and you are ok.

Don't be tempted to wind the spokes up too tight, especially on rims like stans crest. tighter spokes don't equal better wheels (although loose ones do equal crap wheels).