Contador CAS hearing

frenchfighter

German Ulrich Haas, Israeli lawyer Efraim Barak and Swiss Quentin Byrne-Sutton


VS



Wins on the first count of first impressions.




Getty

frenchfighter

La Gazzetta dello Sport (print edition) | November 17 | He had no doubt, and when Alberto called him, Paolo didn't think twice about it. He decided immediately: "Sure, I'll come to Lausanne to be a witness."

Alberto is Contador, the number one. Paolo is Tiralongo: This year he won his first career victory - the Macugnaga stage at the Giro - with the King's blessing. And in 2010, he was Contador's teammate at Astana, and his gregario in that victorious and, thanks to the clenbuterol case, controversial Tour.

"I was always around him, and not only during the race." So it was not by chance that this 34-year-old Sicilian was present at what would prove to be a key moment of that Tour: the dinner at the Hotel Lescar in Pau. Precisely the one with "clenbuterol in the meat."

And so Tiralongo will be the only Italian among Contador's witnesses at the CAS hearing (November 21-24, with a decision expected within 6-8 weeks). Barring changes to the schedule, he'll arrive in Switzerland on the evening of the 22nd, and will testify in Contador's favor the next day.

Tiralongo, do you still remember the evening that later became famous?
Yes, of course. Those were the decisive days of a hard-fought Tour (in Paris, Alberto was only ahead of Andy by 39 seconds). Alberto and I were in close contact; in reality, we did practically all the same things.

Why didn't all the members of the team eat that meat?
Alberto and I and the other Spaniards got done later and went to dinner afterwards. The Kazakh team, with Vinokourov, had dinner before, but they complained about the quality of the food. So we ate meat that had been given to Alberto by a friend, cooked by our chef Paco. It was good and very tender. There's no problem going to Switzerland and telling what happened.

What do you think of his story?
I'm sure of Alberto's innocence.

What is the basis of your conviction?
During the first training camp, he had made it clear what he thought about doping. "Guys," he had said, "you can't joke around, because there are about sixty people working for the team, and their jobs also depend on how we behave." So every kind of action that wasn't in accordance with this seems impossible to me.

How many times have you heard from him lately? How was his mood?
We spoke three times and arranged to meet in Switzerland. He sounded serene to me. He said that he wasn't shaken, that he wasn't afraid, because "they can't accuse me of something I didn't do."

Translation by M. Sarti

Stone Glider

He will walk away as free as a bird.

LeicesterLad

Stone Glider wrote:

He will walk away as free as a bird.

That he will, and i shall be glad.

Keith Oates

I'm very much against the doping that has been going on in cycling but I also 'feel' that Contador is not guilty. It was such a low count for the drug that I doubt it could have helped him in anyway to enhance his performance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

cajun_cyclist

I wonder what the news is about Clenbuterol? Those Mexican footballers were let off the hook, I think I heard some others were as well.

But I dont' know if this standard applies to Contador. Nothing in the news yet except going to court it seems.

CAS has at times been hard core, I would think chances are better than even Contador will be let off the hook.

No pro cyclist is above suspicion, sorry, that's the way it is.

andrewjoseph

Keith Oates wrote:

I'm very much against the doping that has been going on in cycling but I also 'feel' that Contador is not guilty. It was such a low count for the drug that I doubt it could have helped him in anyway to enhance his performance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

from some of the scientific info I have read, to have that much clen in your system, you would have to eat many kilo's of tainted meat.

there has been no withdrawal of spanish beef from sale due to clenbuterol.

no outcry from anywhere about poisoned food in europe.

there was outrage from spanish farmers over the accusation that their beef was tainted.

clenbuterol is a zero tolerance drug. there should be none in his system.

those are the facts.

Keith Oates

I understand what you're saying but do not personally have any knowledge about the drug. However from what I've read it is very possible that he could have ingested it from contaminated meat. However it was such a small quantity that it would not have given him any advantage during the Tour. I also seem to remember that even WADA were/are considering making a change to their rules whereby a certain low level of the drug could be accepted and not lead to disqualification from a sport.

pat1cp

CAS looks like Fawlty Towers.....

I believe he'll be in Liege in July.

juggler

I don't think that anyone suggests that, that level of the drug in his system would have given him an advantage in the Tour. But as stated there is no minimum level for the drug, as the rules stand if this drug is present in your system, then you are guilty of a doping violation.

The only mitigation being presumably if Contador can prove beyond doubt that the drug got into his system by accident. Even then athletes have still been banned in the past where the ingestion of the drug was accidental.

To avoid a ban i think Contador needs to show some evidence of contaminated meat linked to the butcher where the meat was bought. As yet i not read anything that suggests this link or anything saying that Spanish meat in general might contain clenbuterol.

Also he was originally given a 1 year ban by the Spanish federaton, until this was subsequently and bizarrely overturned. Plus both UCI and WADA a presumably both pertitioning for some sanction against Contador for the positive test.

I would be surprised if he is not given some sanction following the hearing, unless he comes up with some new evidence.

rick_chasey

juggler wrote:

I don't think that anyone suggests that, that level of the drug in his system would have given him an advantage in the Tour.

You sure?
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/5948/ ... rance.aspx

davesvord

Keith Oates wrote:

I'm very much against the doping that has been going on in cycling but I also 'feel' that Contador is not guilty. It was such a low count for the drug that I doubt it could have helped him in anyway to enhance his performance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So was Floyds Landis's!

jimmythecuckoo

I think he is guilty of doing what a lot of others have/are doing but was sloppy and got caught. Now he will wriggle free and we will move on.

mfin

All this benefitting performance during the tour, the levels not being enough.... this drug is used to strip fat and hence lower body weight and so on isnt it? So, what most people agree is that he would have used this pre-season, when he was apparently struggling losing a few pounds and at some point after taking it when traces were still in his system he drew blood. Blood which he then used during the tour. The Clen is wrong and banned, but that's half the argument, if he's been transfusing in the tour and this is evidence of that, then tough.

This is what I believe has most probably happened from all Ive read. But still a bit amazed when people say it wasnt in high enough levels to offer any performance enhancing benefits, thats not the point at all.

I could stand corrected, but I read a fair amount to come to this belief.

CyclingBantam

mfin wrote:

All this benefitting performance during the tour, the levels not being enough.... this drug is used to strip fat and hence lower body weight and so on isnt it? So, what most people agree is that he would have used this pre-season, when he was apparently struggling losing a few pounds and at some point after taking it when traces were still in his system he drew blood. Blood which he then used during the tour. The Clen is wrong and banned, but that's half the argument, if he's been transfusing in the tour and this is evidence of that, then tough.

This is what I believe has most probably happened from all Ive read. But still a bit amazed when people say it wasnt in high enough levels to offer any performance enhancing benefits, thats not the point at all.

I could stand corrected, but I read a fair amount to come to this belief.

This perfectly sums up my view. It is irrelivant the level of what was in his system, its banned and there is no reason it should be there. There has to be a line in the sand over what you can have in your system and for Clen it was very clear.

lostboysaint

jimmythecuckoo wrote:

I think he is guilty of doing what a lot of others have/are doing but was sloppy and got caught. Now he will wriggle free and we will move on.

That.

LeicesterLad

The whole thing makes me laugh to be honest. I am probably of a younger generation than most on these boards, so for me, Contador is the greatest/will continue to be the greatest GT rider of my generation, transfusion or no transfusion, I honestly can't decide whether he is innocent or guilty, i hope he's innocent, if not, then the way i see it is, Bertie got cought, he has then become a rather large scapegoat to make it look like the UCI and whoever else actually do something about dopers and cheats, they can try and make an example of him, strip him of a TdF will look really good for the pretend anti-doping brigade, whilst all the time many riders like Contador have done and will continue to cheat, and many will get a slapped wrist in comparrison. More laughable is it tends to be the older heads on this board that make out like Contador is satan himself, the route of all evil, a nasty dirty cheat, when in reality, the Idols of the older generation were infinately more likely to be smacked off their tits or doped to the eyeballs on some substance or another.

That taken into account though, if Contador is found guilty, i agree he should be stripped of titles and processed along with anyone else in that boat, i have no arguement against this, if he cheated, punish him, thats how it works (sometimes) and thats how it should be, but it doesn't take away from the fact he is a fantastic talent, and infinately more interesting to watch than the dullard brigade of the modern, non-personality pro-peloton (and i'm of a younger generation - to me the sport seems devoid (not entirely, but mainly) of characters and winners currently), so those that slate him constantly and bang on about justice and the 'scene' its causing for our fantastic sport are kidding themselves if they think Contador is a very small blyte on an otherwise thriving sport. And those who want to discuss the cheating of the 1970's-1990's without any mention of their favourite riders, bring it.

cajun_cyclist

I'm just for the wheels of justice to proceed as fairly as possible, not out to get a rider.

In Evans, in all likelihood, we have a clean honest Tour winner. The culture of pro cycling to me says most others can not be trusted.

cajun_cyclist

I mentioned the Mexican footballers in the earlier post and since then, others from the Central/South American region were caught on it too but they dismissed it to the contaminated beef or other meat.

So, this would supposedly be the big difference with Europe in that this kind of beef/meat would not be as readily available.

---

It is interesting that the new futbol sensation Neymar called the Barcelona team "Extraterrestials" (read it in Spanish, he says something like "Extraterrestres"), that's kind of amazing, I doubt if that was a reference to doping but I believe Lemond used that term as well to describe some riders in the early 1990s.

mfin

CyclingBantam wrote:

mfin wrote:

All this benefitting performance during the tour, the levels not being enough.... this drug is used to strip fat and hence lower body weight and so on isnt it? So, what most people agree is that he would have used this pre-season, when he was apparently struggling losing a few pounds and at some point after taking it when traces were still in his system he drew blood. Blood which he then used during the tour. The Clen is wrong and banned, but that's half the argument, if he's been transfusing in the tour and this is evidence of that, then tough.

This is what I believe has most probably happened from all Ive read. But still a bit amazed when people say it wasnt in high enough levels to offer any performance enhancing benefits, thats not the point at all.

I could stand corrected, but I read a fair amount to come to this belief.

This perfectly sums up my view. It is irrelivant the level of what was in his system, its banned and there is no reason it should be there. There has to be a line in the sand over what you can have in your system and for Clen it was very clear.

Well, I believe he was blood transfusing, and that explains the low amount. No one would be using a drug during the tour to strip fat? They'd be using it before, to get their weight down.

Also, i you have a rule for no Clen in the bloodstream, then thats that. Roll on the introduction of plasticizer tests in cycling.

jonginge

mfin wrote:

Also, i you have a rule for no Clen in the bloodstream, then thats that. Roll on the introduction of plasticizer tests in cycling.

Do keep up.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wada-re ... cizer-test

Also, plenty many Clen positives in China. WADA said at the start of this case that a positive through meat ingestion was impossible. They've backtracked on that one.

mfin

tuh... ...hadnt seen that news no. Damn and blast.

Im aware of the China connections. Not aware of ones from Spanish Beef though, oh well, suppose its just fluke that its appeared in someone who won that TDF and who would actually have benefitted from Clen in early season eh.

Makes me laugh. Contador is naughty. That's my opinion

calvjones

"Alberto and I and the other Spaniards got done later and went to dinner afterwards. The Kazakh team, with Vinokourov, had dinner before, but they complained about the quality of the food. So we ate meat that had been given to Alberto by a friend, cooked by our chef Paco. It was good and very tender"

Virtually word for word on message there Paulo.

sunburntknees

Bertie doesn't look like a man who eats a lot of steaks.

LeicesterLad

sunburntknees wrote:

Bertie doesn't look like a man who eats a lot of steaks.

Probably more something to do with his high intensity cardio excersize regime. Eating steak doesn't give you a big physique, that's lifting weights. :roll:

frenchfighter

At the end of the day he is a phenomenal rider, an asset to the sport, thoroughly liked by most riders and managers and a bloody admirable bloke outside of cycling.

His exclusion would be unfair and detrimental to the sport.


Funny how muffin man appears on this thread - haven't seen him since forever, since the other Contador thread and anything mentioning Armstrong.

cajun_cyclist

LeicesterLad wrote:

sunburntknees wrote:

Bertie doesn't look like a man who eats a lot of steaks.

Probably more something to do with his high intensity cardio excersize regime. Eating steak doesn't give you a big physique, that's lifting weights. :roll:

Protein is protein...?? Lift weights, supplement your workout with a protein afterwards, whey, soya, meat would even work. If you lift weights or ride a lot but did not supplement it afterwards with protein, I'm not positive if one would build much muscle. Yeah, riding can put on the leg muscles especially if you were doing a lot of climbing.

I'm not a vegetarian, have done it before, I should be... but they even make proteins for weight lifters that are just animal products...makes me squeamish.

juggler

The coincidence as to why he was the only one who ate the steak, a steak that was brought all the way from Spain (but they only decided to eat apparently because the rest of the team complained about the hotel food) - this all sounds a bit unbelievable. Don't these guys have strict diets and food prepared by the team cook anyway? The alternative might be he had a blood transfusion on the rest day and that blood had traces from the clenbuterol taken during training.

I must say i find the second explanation more plausible. Either way he needs to prove his case.

Tusher

juggler wrote:

The coincidence as to why he was the only one who ate the steak, a steak that was brought all the way from Spain (but they only decided to eat apparently because the rest of the team complained about the hotel food) - this all sounds a bit unbelievable. Don't these guys have strict diets and food prepared by the team cook anyway? The alternative might be he had a blood transfusion on the rest day and that blood had traces from the clenbuterol taken during training.

I must say I find the second explanation more plausible. Either way he needs to prove his case.

You and me both. Yup, Alberto may win the Mr Nice Personality Competition in the peloton, and yes, it was a zero-zero-zero point zilch dose that was found, but the plasticisers just confirm to me that he was transfusing blood which had been taken off during training.

I think he'll walk though.

LeicesterLad

Tusher wrote:

juggler wrote:

The coincidence as to why he was the only one who ate the steak, a steak that was brought all the way from Spain (but they only decided to eat apparently because the rest of the team complained about the hotel food) - this all sounds a bit unbelievable. Don't these guys have strict diets and food prepared by the team cook anyway? The alternative might be he had a blood transfusion on the rest day and that blood had traces from the clenbuterol taken during training.

I must say I find the second explanation more plausible. Either way he needs to prove his case.

You and me both. Yup, Alberto may win the Mr Nice Personality Competition in the peloton, and yes, it was a zero-zero-zero point zilch dose that was found, but the plasticisers just confirm to me that he was transfusing blood which had been taken off during training.

I think he'll walk though.

Don't make me fall out with you as well Tush!

pat1cp

Frenchie, being well liked and fast doesn't mean you haven't taken a wee bit o clen.....