Getting it up! Stems and saddles help needed.

TheJackal

Having ridden my newly built Scott Scale for a few months I'm finding it difficult to get the front end up when necessary, even when off the saddle.

Despite having the lightest carbon fibre rigid forks and wheels, my weight seems too far forward to perform any semblance of a lift, let alone a manual or wheelie.

Normally I'd fit shorter stem and a lay-back seatpost and adjust my position towards the rear to get more lift at the front but I don't really want to do away with my current seatpost.

I currently run a 90mm stem but have a 70mm one which I could fit which might help. My only problem is that my saddle is currently at it's furthest back position, so fitting a 70mm stem probably won't make any difference and to be honest, I've tried it and it doesn't.

I would like to know if there are any saddles out there with longer rails than normal to allow me to move the saddle back a few inches, in conjunction with the shorter stem?

supersonic

A higher rise bar might help. But sliding the rails back can be counter productive - as you slacken the seat angle, you tend to lean a bit further forward, and lower down. A steeper seat angle has you more upright, and weight more centred, but often less weight on the bars. But enough balance to keep the front wheel planted when you need to.

TheJackal

The trouble seems to be that the geometry of the Scale appears to have the rider well forward.

Fine for racing and commuting but when it comes to lifting the front end up, even getting right back over the back wheel doesn't help that much.

I used to be able to lift my Titanium Airborne sufficiently but any more than about 4 inches on the Scale is a real chore. And of course, with rigid forks, you can hardly pump and then lift like you can with suspension.

SUPERSUTT

im having the same problem on my specialized camber (its a medium size as im only 5'10" )which has a head angle of 68.5 degrees and a 90mm stem. even a pump manual seems difficult to pull off

mattyg2004

Hhmm I'm also having this problem and I thought I'd go with a much shorter stem. Currently a 85mm ish. Thinking dropping to around 50mm

andy46

I also find it difficult with the Spark, I thought it was just me but maybe I should look at making some adjustments??

The thing is, I'm pretty comfy with the riding position the way it is. :?

1mancity2

If you don't want to change your stem and saddle position, practice is the only way.

TheJackal

I looked at the overall geometry of my Scale today and the sad truth is that with carbon rigid forks and such a steep seat tube, it's never going to possible to reposition a saddle so that my weights firmly planted over the back wheel. It's a race machine and as Supersonic hinted, the position is flat for a reason, i.e. to enable the front wheel to remain planted.

Maybe if my forks had a longer axle to crown measurement it would make the head tube and seat tube lean further back, thus forcing my weight back but alas short of putting some 120 forks or more on and ruining the current set-up, I'm just going to have to put up with not being able to get it up!

Viagra anyone?

1mancity2

SUPERSUTT

i seen a guy pull a long pump manual on a orange five made it seem easy does the fork lengh and head angle make a diffrence say from 120mm to 140mm

1mancity2

SUPERSUTT wrote:

i seen a guy pull a long pump manual on a orange five made it seem easy does the fork lengh and head angle make a diffrence say from 120mm to 140mm

Slacker angles make it easier but nothing beats practice, just keep at it and it comes, hardest bit is getting used to pushing the front end not pulling, as you get the front end up push your feet forward.

It comes slowly but once your getting the hang of it you will want to manual everthing.

styxd

Slacker angles make it easier but nothing beats practice, just keep at it and it comes, hardest bit is getting used to pushing the front end not pulling, as you get the front end up push your feet forward.

No, you're wrong. Head angles and seat angles have nothing to do with it, the easiest bikes to manual are dirt/street bikes and bmxs. These have very steep angles and little/no suspension.

What determines how well a bike manuals is the chainstay length and bottom bracket height. Generally shorter stays and a high bb make for an easy to manual bike.

DCR00

supersonic wrote:

A higher rise bar might help. But sliding the rails back can be counter productive - as you slacken the seat angle, you tend to lean a bit further forward, and lower down. A steeper seat angle has you more upright, and weight more centred, but often less weight on the bars. But enough balance to keep the front wheel planted when you need to.

i used to ride a Scale

I had a 100mm stem, 10 degree rise, but flipped over so it was pretty much flat. This made it virually impossible to lift the front end. Running it the other way round made it much easier to lift, but nowhere as easy as the 70mm stem i have on my Spesh

Shaggy_Dog

Practise, practise, practise. Fit some flat pedals, slam the saddle and get out on a bit of flat tarmac until you can comfortably loop out the bike (ie - when you manual too much and go off the back) when you're comfortable with that, put your saddle up and start again, then go back to SPD's. Eventually you'll be able to manual anything, I can manual my road bike!

SUPERSUTT

went out tonight just to practise getting there slowly i find it easyer if i hit i speed bumb with the front wheel it seem to come up better