Vague steering on new road bike, advice please?

strauss_jon

Hi there

I've been an MTB rider all my life and finally decided to get a road bike to do a bit of both. A few days ago I bought myself a Litespeed M1 and I love it. However, the steering is vague as hell on both the top of the bar and the drop. Without meaning to sound pedantic, this is a really big deal for me. It neither feels nice nor safe especially going round a corner at speed.

I'm new to road biking, and I'd like to know if this 'vagueness' (compared to my totally planted stump jumper HT) is a trait of road bikes or whether there's anything I can do about it. I'll describe the 'vagueness' by it feeling like the front isn't connected to the back?! So the front turns first then there's a lag for the back to catch up. It's not a massive feeling but it's definitely there. If I weave left and right repeatedly, after a while I feel as though a tank slapper is coming along, i.e. the back feels light and the front is doing all the work and possibly losing control because of the 'changing weight balance'. If you can make sense of that...

I opted for a shorter stem (despite my eyes now seeing an inch or 2 of the front axle when looking down from the drops; evans says the rule of thumb is for your bars to be directly over the axle when looking down) to make the steering more responsive but it's still behaving like a dog dragging its rear around. Is this normal, and if not, can anything be done or have I bought the wrong bike?

Feedback greatly appreciated or is it's going back to Evans unfortunately

Thanks in advance, Jon

gmacz

You get used to it.
It is a bit like holding onto the wide mtb bars and then moving both hands into the middle of the bar and the handling totally changes.
A "few days ago" is not enough time to get used to the changes.
It feels weird going back to the wide bars again.
What psi are you running?

strauss_jon

Thanks for your quick reply.

I'm running 120psi.

You're right with what you say, but i think what i'm getting at is the lag between the front and the back of the bike. I understand that it's going to be more wobbly for the first few days (narrower bars etc), but it's the dominant feeling of the front that i don't like. I want instantaneous turning at both ends of the bike. I suppose the problem is the weight of the drops compared to the nil lateral weight (nothing sticking out) at the back. Hey, maybe putting a pair of drops on the back would fix it?

gmacz

Try dropping the pressure to 80 psi amd see if this transforms the ride.
At 110 psi and a week of ownership my new bike was on gumtree.
Now done 1300 miles plus at 80psi and really enjoying the bike.
I am also a long term mtber and will be getting back on the mtb, the roadie is good fun and could get addictive.
Roadie and mtb are totally different bikes, no use looking for mtb handling on a roadie, slicks on a mtb will give you what you are looking for.

LongIslandTom

As gmacz mentions, drop your front tire's pressure to something lower. If your front tire is too firm, the ride will be very harsh and the wheel will bounce all over the place except on very smooth surfaces, and that degrades steering control. Myself, I run 80PSI front, 120PSI back.

Also, handlebar width is a personal preference thing. When I bought my first road bike, it came with 36cm-wide drop bars and I hated the handling. Swapped out the 36cm drop bar to a set of FSA Wing Compact 44cm-wide shallow short-reach bars (and shims to bring the Ultegra levers closer to the bar), and my bike felt much better for me. Maybe test-ride someone's bike that has wider drop bars and see if you can feel a difference for the better. If it does, you might want to spend the money for a wider set of bars.

And if all else fails, you can always convert your road bike to flat bars or trekking bars, which will require a new set of flat-bar shifters compatible with your road bike derailleurs, and MTB-style short-pull brake levers that will work with your road bike's caliper brakes.

logitech208

A change of tyres may help, I nearly sold my road bike after a few weeks as the handling felt very wobbly and the ride was so harsh I hated it, I have replaced the awful michelin dynamic 23mm tyres with some some Continental GP 4000s 25's and WOW its transformed the bike it feels much more planted now and these tyres have taken away a lot of the harshness from the road.

I still MTB as well and now find the wide bars very odd for the first 30 mins or so.

BruceG

strauss_jon wrote:

Hi there


I opted for a shorter stem (despite my eyes now seeing an inch or 2 of the front axle when looking down from the drops; evans says the rule of thumb is for your bars to be directly over the axle when looking down) to make the steering more responsive but it's still behaving like a dog dragging its rear around. Is this normal, and if not, can anything be done or have I bought the wrong bike?

Feedback greatly appreciated or is it's going back to Evans unfortunately

Thanks in advance, Jon

So what you have done is speed up the turn in on the front, by fitting a shorter stem (maybe to short by your description), and the back has to catch up, however these nuances will be extremely slight in terms of time lag. A "to short" stem normally manifests itself more as giving a a twitchy or unstable feeling ride, which you also allude to in you post. I fancy your problem lies more with the stem length, and I certainly wouldnt advocate running a ridiculously low 80psi in the front tyre, they are not really designed for these type of pressures, and all you will be doing is masking a genuine problem (to short stem?) by putting an artificial fix, ie slowing down the front reaction by making in sliggish running to low a pressure, which incidentally could lead to more punctures.

I fancy the stem is your problem, and the stem length should only really need altering for the purposes of "bike fit".

Let us know how it goes

nferrar

Not sure I really understand the feeling you're getting, I have MTB's and road bikes - a couple of the road bikes are what I'd call neutral feeling and one is very direct and just the right side of twitchy. I have read some reviews talking about a disconnected front and back end but not sure what causes it. I think though as said above shortening the stem probably hasn't helped, I run a short stem and wide bars on my main MTB but the improved steering you get from that doesn't really translate on the road.

rjh299

A shorter stem should sharpen up your steering, a too short a one will make it twitchy. There shouldn't be a lag between front and back end though, you may just need time to get use to it. Also, are you moving your body weight? Leaning with the bike in the turn? If you're turning the front but not leaning, the rest of the bike will not follow the same line in tight, higher speed corners.

Thelittlesthobo

Another ex MTB rider here.

Of course the bike is going to feel like this from new. You are going frm near 2" of rubber on the road to about 5mm wide. You wait until you start riding through side winds for the first time.

Amazes me how experienced and even unexperienced riders make snap decisions about things relating to their bikes within seconds/hours/days of getting their new bike. Surely you must have known from your MTB that shortening the stem would make the front end even twitchier. Its a black & white rule.

How about trying the bike for a while and getting used to it first. try 120/110/100/90/80 psi and see what it does etc.

Not meaning to be short but its something i have always wondered about. Fair play if you were an experienced road rider then you can make quick decisions but even on my mtb it takes me months of riding in different terrain to make any kind of judgements on changes to its spec.

strauss_jon

Thanks very much for your very comments, much appreciated! I'm going to mess around with the tyre pressures, then will change to a slightly longer stem. Thelittlesthobo; I know it takes time to get used to any change in spec and i'm obviously expecting some weirdness and some precarious moments for a while. Actually, I'm really looking forward to this change. But...i 'know' (even with no experience) this 'disconnect' isn't right and no amount of 'getting used to it' will make me feel any better about it. I presume it must be down to the short stem which I will change. rjh299, yes it's better when leaning in the corners but I would hope that even with my 'controlled conditions test bed' of quickly weaving left and right from a straight line should not give me the feeling that the back is connected via a universal joint!

The more I absorb your comments, the more I think it has to be the stem. The shorter the stem, the longer the time it takes for the back to catch up. Makes sense. Plus lowering the front tyre pressures slightly should help.

(I opted for a shorter stem because I got a slighter larger bike than what I was advised to get. 55 and i'm normally a 54. This is due to my short legs and a disproportionately large torso. Anyway, i guess it's all a bit of a compromise)

I'll post again when i achieve (or not) my goals.

Once again, much appreciated your help :-)

nferrar

You have any roadie riding mates that one could test your bike and see if there's anything noticeable?

strauss_jon

None at all, you live in Brighton?

rjh299

How about your LBS? Surely they could just take a look. Shouldn't think they would charge you, even if the guy behind the counter could take a look, may not even need a good mechanic.

strauss_jon

Booked myself in with Evans on sat - will post some feedback then. This thread's given me some useful things to try beforehand and also some good ammunition for sat. Many thanks!

g00se

Just a few thoughts:

What is the wheelbase compared to your MTBs? If it's a lot longer, the rear may feel disconnected in comparison.

Head angle and front trail will effect the feel too.

If you're set up so you're pitched too far forward over the bars, it will make the rear feel loose - especially at low effort. So a quick couple of tests:

Cycle along and look at the front wheel hub - is it hidden by the bars - or can you see it in-front of, or behind, the bars?

Get a bit of effort in and take the weight off of your hands - do you feel like you're balanced or do you fall forward back onto your hands?

If the hub is in front of the bars and you fall forward when you take the weight off, your saddle is probably not back enough causing you to be off balance.

strauss_jon

Well I didn't think I'd be posting again this soon.

Dropped the front PSI to 110 and left 120 at the back and it's pretty well sorted, what a difference!! Weaving around, it was so much more planted / connected than before - outstanding.

I'm chuffed to bits and if you'd pardon my french, this bike is the b*(l^&ks! I just had such a good ride now, childish grin throughout and buzzing - and considering i've been riding since before I was born, that's quite an achievement! Wow...and all due to a few PSIs.

I'm still going to experiment with a longer stem, just out of curiosities sake but I'm definitely happy with the current setup. With the exception of the cast iron seat.

Cheers guys, consider me one of the club now :-) , I'm hooked! Just no lycras pls....

gmacz

Pics in Your Bike.

strauss_jon

Grrr, file size too big. It's this one anyway.

http://www.litespeed.com/bike.asp?content=M1-SRAM-Apex

Can't grumble, nice bit of kit. Wheels a bit budget but less of the pies first then some hardware updates later. Got a hefty discount plus through bike2work so all in all, a good deal. Just looking back at my last post, my apologies for the childish prose. Was a little over excited. Guess that ain't a bad thing! I'm really surprised how just 10psi made such a marked difference though.

Duffer65

strauss_jon " I'm hooked! Just no lycras pls..."

You say that now....

g00se

strauss_jon wrote:

Just no lycras pls....

A carbon road bike in baggies! The bike police will have to confiscate it from you... See rule #19 http://www.velominati.com/blog/the-rules/