OT and to be honest quite boring.

Koncordski

Ok so get ready to snooze on this one but I figured someone on here might have some experience. I'm moving house in December from an edwardian era mansion flat to a 60's era purpose built block. I'm moving to the 4th floor out of 5 in total. Now the place doesn't have mains gas and currently has night storage heaters which are going in the bin as soon as I move in. It's got cavity wall, double glazing and is a middle floor & south facing so I don't think it's ever going to get freezing cold. I've never put in an electric heating system though and not sure what works best. Economy 7 and storage heaters is basically a scam because you're not there during the day and in return for the night rate you pay a fortune for all the other electricity you use. I'm looking at electric wall mounted convection heaters/oil filled rads in the lounge and bedroom and then possibly electric underfloor heating in the kitchen and bathroom. Bedroom and lounge will have carpet. I'd love to supplement with a modern wood burning stove but this will depend on the permissions I can secure (share of freehold) in the building as it will need a flue upto the roof on an external wall. Assuming I can't get this permission do you think I'll get enough heat with this setup? Am toying with secondary insulating the walls with insulated plasterboard. There you are, boring or what?

On a bike related note it comes with it's own garage so I can finally get N+1 on the bikes.

joelsim

Why don't you move in and then decide?

davis

I reckon you'll be warm enough.

I don't think you want a woodburner. Although the heat they chuck out is awesome, you'll have to get the fuel up to the fourth floor, and the ash out. Bother that for an amusement of armed men.

But, as Joelsim says, try it, and see how much heating you need. I wouldn't rip out the NSH yet either, as they don't cost much to run if you don't switch 'em on. I could easily believe you wouldn't need to.

oh, and:

SimonAH

A wood burning stove us a thing of loveliness, but the odds of being allowed to fit one one in a fourth floor flat could be written on a grain of rice with a sledgehammer. Wear jumpers or buy the house I'm selling in Wales. For sixty K you can have it, woodburning stove, GCH, 140ft garden and three car garage thrown in.

How does eCommuting work for you?

rjsterry

Have you considered installing UFH throughout? No need for any wall heaters then and a nice even heat through the whole house. These guys do a good system which uses a 'ribbon' instead of a 'wire' element.
http://www.allbriteuk.co.uk/under-floor-heating/ribbon-underfloor-heating

phy2sll2

Heat pump?

rick_chasey

Underfloor heating FTW.

greg66_tri_v2.0

Rick Chasey wrote:

Underfloor heating FTW.

Sometimes those 60s blocks have concrete floors -> UFH requires the floor to be built up and skirtings to be moved and doors to be eased...

rjsterry

Greg66 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Underfloor heating FTW.

Sometimes those 60s blocks have concrete floors -> UFH requires the floor to be built up and skirtings to be moved and doors to be eased...

True. Depends what other work you might be doing - if you are redecorating anyway then not such a big deal.

Koncordski

Will be ripping out the cheap laminate floor anyway. I'll underfloor the bathroom and kitchen (to have tiles) but the lounge will be carpet or real wood flooring. Anything like that will insulate the underfloor heating rather than conducting it. Not sure I want tiles all through the house, bit cold looking. As for the stove, yeah reckon i'll have no chance of permission on that.

Torvid

I live in a bit more resecently built (2006ish) apartment but I haven't had the heating on since moving in 2 years ago even had the french doors open last night you just get alot of residual heat. I'm 3 floors up of 5, the worst part is the summer can't seem to cool the flat down enough.

rjsterry

Koncordski wrote:

Will be ripping out the cheap laminate floor anyway. I'll underfloor the bathroom and kitchen (to have tiles) but the lounge will be carpet or real wood flooring. Anything like that will insulate the underfloor heating rather than conducting it. Not sure I want tiles all through the house, bit cold looking. As for the stove, yeah reckon i'll have no chance of permission on that.

It's true that tiles work better with UFH, but there is plenty of real wood flooring that does work with UFH providing it's properly insulated from the sub floor. Carpet is more problematic though.

Rich158

Torvid wrote:

I live in a bit more resecently built (2006ish) apartment but I haven't had the heating on since moving in 2 years ago even had the french doors open last night you just get alot of residual heat. I'm 3 floors up of 5, the worst part is the summer can't seem to cool the flat down enough.

I think you'll find the insulation standards are somewhat different between a relatively modern flat and a 1960's apartment. In all likelihood the insulation in the cavity wall will be minimal if there's any at all and the windows will be poorly fitting and leak heat like there's no tomorrow. The big issue with insulated plasterboard will be the potential for interstitial condensation forming between the board and the external wall which will lead to a whole raft of problems, I'd stay clear of that option if I were you. Underfloor heating is fantastic, but with an all electric system would prove to be expensive. Unfortunately with no gas and a slightly less than zero chance of getting permission for a wood burning stove your choices are extremely limited. It may be worthwhile installing the underfloor heating where you want it anyway, leaving everything else off and seeing how things go before committing to anything else, it may just be provide enough background heat depending upon how warm you like it. Another option if you have the roof space may be to persuade the other freeholders to agree to installing a solar thermal system to provide communal heating from which you'll all benefit. It could be a large amount of work and require a relatively large outlay at the start, but a provision of free heating and hot water may outweigh this.

Torvid

Rich158 wrote:

I think you'll find the insulation standards are somewhat different between a relatively modern flat and a 1960's apartment. In all likelihood the insulation in the cavity wall will be minimal if there's any at all and the windows will be poorly fitting and leak heat like there's no tomorrow. The big issue with insulated plasterboard will be the potential for interstitial condensation forming between the board and the external wall which will lead to a whole raft of problems, I'd stay clear of that option if I were you. Underfloor heating is fantastic, but with an all electric system would prove to be expensive. Unfortunately with no gas and a slightly less than zero chance of getting permission for a wood burning stove your choices are extremely limited. It may be worthwhile installing the underfloor heating where you want it anyway, leaving everything else off and seeing how things go before committing to anything else, it may just be provide enough background heat depending upon how warm you like it. Another option if you have the roof space may be to persuade the other freeholders to agree to installing a solar thermal system to provide communal heating from which you'll all benefit. It could be a large amount of work and require a relatively large outlay at the start, but a provision of free heating and hot water may outweigh this.

Yep, but he did say it had been cavity walled and double glazzed, I assumed maybe wrongly that these would have happened in the last few years with all the grants that have been thrown round to make people do the upgrades.

Rich158

Torvid wrote:

Rich158 wrote:

I think you'll find the insulation standards are somewhat different between a relatively modern flat and a 1960's apartment. In all likelihood the insulation in the cavity wall will be minimal if there's any at all and the windows will be poorly fitting and leak heat like there's no tomorrow. The big issue with insulated plasterboard will be the potential for interstitial condensation forming between the board and the external wall which will lead to a whole raft of problems, I'd stay clear of that option if I were you. Underfloor heating is fantastic, but with an all electric system would prove to be expensive. Unfortunately with no gas and a slightly less than zero chance of getting permission for a wood burning stove your choices are extremely limited. It may be worthwhile installing the underfloor heating where you want it anyway, leaving everything else off and seeing how things go before committing to anything else, it may just be provide enough background heat depending upon how warm you like it. Another option if you have the roof space may be to persuade the other freeholders to agree to installing a solar thermal system to provide communal heating from which you'll all benefit. It could be a large amount of work and require a relatively large outlay at the start, but a provision of free heating and hot water may outweigh this.

Yep, but he did say it had been cavity walled and double glazzed, I assumed maybe wrongly that these would have happened in the last few years with all the grants that have been thrown round to make people do the upgrades.

To be fair he only said it had a cavity wall, not that it had been insulated. With regard to double glazing it will have an effect but a vast amount of heat is lost due to the little drafts you get around poorly fitting windows, and retro fitted double glazing is extremely difficult to seal to the same standard as new build units. Just look at the efforts that go into sealing a passivhaus and you'll see what I mean. Add into that the fact that an old 60's block will be riddled with cold bridges, ie bits of structure that bridge across the insulation which again leak heat and whilst it will be better it will in no way meet the same insulation standards as a flat built within the last 6 years or so

Stone Glider

As you are not the top floor of the block, it would seem that you have three floors below you furnishing you with their heat-loss, before you pass the residue to the floor above. Depending on your orientation you could also benefit from some solar gain. Perhaps you should wait and see how things work out this winter before embarking on expensive works which may not be needed. Electric storage heaters can be effective if you have relatively small heat-loss and use the accomadation mainly in the evening.

+1 to woolly jumpers and sucking peppermints