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Prize Money

Tom ButcherTom Butcher Posts: 7,137
edited November 2011 in Amateur race
I was going to create a poll but looks like you need special permission.

Prize money in lower category racing - good idea or not ? I'm planning on doing another road race next year and as it's only a 3/4 I'm planning on running it without prize money (I may try and get some sponsorship for prizes but that's not a given). My feeling is that unless you have a prize fund of £300 upwards it's hardly worthwhile and it's better to knock a few quid off the entry fee for everyone and/or have less stress about breaking even what with the expectations that races will have NEG etc these days.

So the question is - is prize money in the lower (regional) levels of amateur racing important or should it only really start to come in at national level racing ?

it's a hard life if you don't weaken.

Posts

  • hammeritehammerite Posts: 3,408
    Having only finished in a position worthy of a prize once I was quite surprised when opening the envelope to find it had a £20 note in it.

    Whilst I was pleased that I'd won something, I was more than happy to have finished third in the race and that was enough for me. I'd paid £12 to enter the race and petrol for the 90 mile round trip, which I basically didn't expect to get anything back. I race for the enjoyment of racing, if I race well and get a place great, but I'm not in it to win money - it'd be a pretty pointless exercise if that was the case!!

    I think non cash prizes are nice to have though, but make sure they're practical/worthwhile rather than just tat. And what's wrong with a nice trophy for a 3/4 cat race?
  • RichjRichj Posts: 240
    Never considered prize money when entering a race, there are so few on these days I am just happy to get a race and not have my race entry returned.

    Got £50 for winning a 4th Cat race, which I was truly shocked at.
  • SBezzaSBezza Posts: 2,173
    If you run it under BC rules, I think you might have to give out prizes based on the number of starters. Obviously if under other rules this wouldn't be an issue.

    I would check the rules and see what you need to do.
  • Tom ButcherTom Butcher Posts: 7,137
    No there is in cyclo-cross, 99% certain there is nothing in the road and track regs about how much you have to offer in prizes. In the past I've always offered £100 to the winner and then money down to 10th but as it's going to be a fairly short race I don't want to be charging £15 odd to race.

    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
  • MikeWWMikeWW Posts: 723
    £100 for a win sounds a lot
    Think you need to offer something though for the top 3 at the very least
  • Tom ButcherTom Butcher Posts: 7,137
    The £100 was for a 2/3/4 80 mile race - yes a few people did comment it was a lot but I had a full field and expenses were less than I'm anticipating they'll be for this one.

    I think I'm going to go for it and offer nothing unless I can get something donated by sponsors. If it puts a few people off then that's the chance I'll take - so long as people know in advance they can make their decisions about whether to enter or not.

    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
  • Percy VeraPercy Vera Posts: 1,103
    I think if you are having prize money then only the first 3 get it.
    Definitely no trophies/medals - they're the biggest waste of money.
    Medals only for a Chamionship Race.
  • the prize fund thing only applies to Nat races.

    The 3/4 race we put on had a good prize fund (well over £300) + a few trophies for an incorporated club champs.
    To be honest, a few quid is nothing really and is soon gone, however, i know my daughters silverware means far more to her than money.
    also, trophies are pretty cheap :idea: but dont put the date on them, just incase the race is cancelled.
  • Tough one - as a rider who will very rarely have to worry about collecting prizes - i'd still say that prizes should exist.

    The point about trophies/medals lasting longer than cash is a good one - if perhaps more relevant to kids than adults?

    If you are offering prizes for finishers i'd say primes should also be included. Gives everyone something to aim at. And a prime without a prize is pointless... Perhaps prizes for primes but not the win / 2nd / 3rd...? After all there are points available for the finishing places!!
    Put me back on my bike...

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  • Speak to your local bike shops and get what you can and that will take the heat off you cash flow. Mayb eonly give some cash for first.

    I've been really surprised in the past at what shops are willing to give, really push to the shop the exposure they will get (60-80 riders who will spend a decent amount of cash a year on kit) and give them some ideas of what you want... bottle cages/bar tape/creams/bars etc... small stuff you can make a pack out of and they won't miss.. always worked for us! One year we got about 300 bits of kit from Ed Bikes for a youth series we ran!
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  • i think you should offer prize money, when you have to pay the very high entry fees UK races demand i think it only fair that at least the top 5 can make money on it, and with the trophy thing yes it is quite cool to win one but unless you get a decent one i think its pointless, otherwise you will get some people who do well collecting loads of trophys that will just sit on a mantle piece collecting dust, but for under 16s i think they would be a good idea
  • Tom ButcherTom Butcher Posts: 7,137
    Serious question, why is it "only fair" that people make money from a race that lots of people put their unpaid labour into putting on?

    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
  • xixangxixang Posts: 328
    I'd say no prizes and cheaper entry.

    Whilst most seasoned racers may consider cycling relatively cheap compared to other sports for the new-comer it seems expensive - I know from talking to friends/work colleagues who can't believe how much 1 race costs. Its not just the entry fee but the BC membership and race licence (£70-odd quid before you even enter a race), plus the petrol getting to/from events, and other costs (energy drinks/gels etc).

    For a long time I've felt that 3/4 races should scrap prizes and lower entry fees to encourage new racers. Ideally there would be more 4th cat/first time only races, but in practice that doesn't happen
  • Race fees are relatively cheap really, 1/2 the price of a decent tire. ok the licence seems expensive but not when you consider the amount of Carbon at most races, also, remember GoRace events are a fiver and no license needed, hardly a fortune.

    Having experienced the amount of (unpaid but satisfying) work that goes into an event... i say give a prize to the Organiser and all those Marshals who stand around in the cold for the remains of the tea and biscuits the racers have left behind :(
  • MikeWWMikeWW Posts: 723
    xixang wrote:
    I'd say no prizes and cheaper entry.

    Whilst most seasoned racers may consider cycling relatively cheap compared to other sports for the new-comer it seems expensive - I know from talking to friends/work colleagues who can't believe how much 1 race costs. Its not just the entry fee but the BC membership and race licence (£70-odd quid before you even enter a race), plus the petrol getting to/from events, and other costs (energy drinks/gels etc).

    For a long time I've felt that 3/4 races should scrap prizes and lower entry fees to encourage new racers. Ideally there would be more 4th cat/first time only races, but in practice that doesn't happen

    Road race entries are cheap-try mountain biking or triathalons!! Not sure how much encouragement is needed either-all races I've done have been well attended
  • Lookyhere wrote:
    Race fees are relatively cheap really :(

    Not compaired with other europian countrys
  • Lookyhere wrote:
    Race fees are relatively cheap really :(

    Not compaired with other europian countrys

    +1 in belgium it is 8 euro to start then you get 5 euro back when you return your number, and prize money down to 30th sometimes even 50th with a couple hundred euro for the win. French races i have done have only been about 10 euro, i think they are cheaper because they just close the roads and so no need for motorcycle marshals and unlike the UK where people moan about it over there they get out and watch the racing
  • GiantMikeGiantMike Posts: 3,139
    Prize money for the first 5 (£20 down to £2) and cheaper entries.
  • There are alot of expenses involved, 2 cars 2Commissaires take 45p+/mile and that will include travel too/from the race, hire of hall, levies to BC and the BC region, Prize fund ! the cost of numbers 2 x @ £100approx each/flags/hiviz jackets ok one offs but still need to be financed and then updated.
    A club may only put on one event per yr, its alot of work an effort for perhaps £200 profit IF they are lucky.... go put on an event and then say its too expensive.... all the above are for a RR not cct racing... no idea how the funding works for them.
    Comparing to euro racing with fields of 200+ isnt really fair.
  • Tom ButcherTom Butcher Posts: 7,137
    Yes it's a couple of years since I organised but you are probably looking at about £4 per rider in levies (BC and region together), maybe £1 a rider for the HQ/parking on average, 2 commissaires, 2/3 motorbikes, if you pay expenses to the other car drivers then maybe a couple more. Then you've got to pay to register the race and HQ etc, if you send out a start sheet the printing and postage that's on top.

    Last race I did the prize fund was about £300 but that's about £4 per rider - so it adds up - I haven't costed things up but I imagine with that kind of prize fund I'd have to be charging around £15 to break even for the club. If you paid the marshalls minimum wage you'd be looking at more like £30 to race so really while it may not be cheap it is still value for money.

    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
  • hammeritehammerite Posts: 3,408
    Lookyhere wrote:
    Race fees are relatively cheap really :(

    Not compaired with other europian countrys

    +1 in belgium it is 8 euro to start then you get 5 euro back when you return your number, and prize money down to 30th sometimes even 50th with a couple hundred euro for the win. French races i have done have only been about 10 euro, i think they are cheaper because they just close the roads and so no need for motorcycle marshals and unlike the UK where people moan about it over there they get out and watch the racing

    Also probably cheaper because cycle sport has a good following in Belgium and France, it's probably relatively easy to find a sponsor to cover costs/prize money, keeping entry fees low. Not so easy to find sponsors over here.
  • xixangxixang Posts: 328
    not saying I necessarily think its expensive but I know plenty of (non-cyclists) who do. Half the issue is the slice BC take from it all. I don't ride BC races so doesn't bother me as I ride LVRC and/or TLI as I can get both licences for less than BC and races are (in my opinion) better -more friendly, less formal, not full of arses riding dangerously (yet to see a crash in either LVRC or TLI event, but seen plenty in BC) etc
  • Lookyhere wrote:
    There are alot of expenses involved, 2 cars 2Commissaires take 45p+/mile and that will include travel too/from the race, hire of hall, levies to BC and the BC region, Prize fund ! the cost of numbers 2 x @ £100approx each/flags/hiviz jackets ok one offs but still need to be financed and then updated.
    A club may only put on one event per yr, its alot of work an effort for perhaps £200 profit IF they are lucky.... go put on an event and then say its too expensive.... all the above are for a RR not cct racing... no idea how the funding works for them.
    Comparing to euro racing with fields of 200+ isnt really fair.

    you say its not really fair, but when deciding where to race entry fee and available prize money are going to be two of the things i would think about and so really it needs to be compared.
  • I do it for the love of the Sport so prizes and fees mean little to me :shock: ..... just finishing is a prize in its self :idea:
  • hammeritehammerite Posts: 3,408

    you say its not really fair, but when deciding where to race entry fee and available prize money are going to be two of the things i would think about and so really it needs to be compared.

    I look at how far it is from home. Entry fees are usually nothing compared to the cost of petrol for getting to the race, or the impact the time it takes to travel will have on life away from cycling. There are very few races near me within riding distance without it hampering performance.
  • xixangxixang Posts: 328
    as amateurs, prizes shouldn't really be a consideration - as others have said, we do it (or should be) for the love of the sport, not for (cash) prizes. For 90% of competitors prizes mean nothing, either because (like me) it isn't a factor in why I race or because they rarely , if ever, finish high enough up the field. Prizes are a nice to have but far from essential or a motivator.

    @ ozzyosborn206 - genuine question. you say prize list is one consideration on entering a race but how many events do you enter where you know the prize money beforehand? I've yet to enter one where I know as I usually find out after I've entered and the startsheet is posted out. Maybe for higher end races with sponsorship, but a typical 2/3 or 3/4 race wouldn't publish a prize list beforehand, would it? I stand to be corrected on this as it's around 5 years since I last entered a BC event.
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