Cleat position riding pain

lackofgrip

I recently changed my bike and have been suffering knee pain and was wondering what the cause could be there are so many sites and blogs aboutthe subject.

I use Shimano shoes with grey Keo cleats 4.5 degree float

I used these on my previous bike, but now I'm wondering if I should try the red cleats 9 degree float to try and solve my problem.

My knees are just about over the pedals when horizontal and I have a slight kink in my leg on full extension.

I was wondering if there is a way to alleviate this problem.

How do people have there cleats? pointing straight or to cause to in / out??

hopper1

You should have set your new bike up, using the measurements from old bike...
Brief set up tip for cleats:

Sit on a table with knees/feet same distance apart as on bike.
Observe the way your feet naturally point... In, out, or straight ahead.
Adjust your cleats so that your feet will replicate this position on your bike.
Best advice is to go get a bike fit, though.

Monty Dog

Certainly go back to the other cleats with more float. If you have no marks on the shoe soles, use a sharp point to scratch some alignment marks. I'm less sure about sitting on a table being a determinant of your foot/cleat position - I spent a number of years designing lower limb prostheses and the way your joints are aligned is a little more complex. Foot and cleat alignment can only be done properly when seated on a bike.

mustol

There is no position to suit everyone, the cleats need to be set up for you. I have one cleat angled slightly more, as my right foot splays out more than my left. I have also had a bike fit and the cleat on my left shoe was moved to move my foot closer to the crank and the cleat is further back on my left than my right. As hopper1 said, it really is worth getting a bike fit, but if you don't want to spend the money, you just need a bit of trial and error. Move the cleat, go for short ride, come back and adjust if necessary. I believe that once they're set up correctly, you won't need any more float.

cougie

As I understand it - you've changed the bike - not your shoes ? So you should tinker with the bike rather than your cleats ?

Bring the saddle down or forward a tad and see if that helps.

wishitwasallflat

If you can get a propser bike fit - if not then check this site out I have found it spot on and sorted my medial knee pain after changing bikes a few months ago and long standing patellar tendon problem with simple tweks as advise on this site.

http://www.cptips.com/knee.htm

Evil Laugh

More likely to be saddle too low on new bike if knees are hurting.

Also you could check if the q factor of the cranks is different on the different bikes. For eg you went from an old double (narrow) or a triple (wide) to a modern double/compact. That could effectively move your cleats a few mm in or out from the bb either side.

lackofgrip

Evil Laugh wrote:

More likely to be saddle too low on new bike if knees are hurting.

Also you could check if the q factor of the cranks is different on the different bikes. For eg you went from an old double (narrow) or a triple (wide) to a modern double/compact. That could effectively move your cleats a few mm in or out from the bb either side.

Funny you should say that my previous bike was a Focus triple this one is a compact double

Evil Laugh

You could try moving your cleats in to see if it compensates for the change. I'd take a guess that your old cranks could be something like 156mm Q and the new maybe 146mm. In this example you could try moving your cleats inwards 5mm each and I think that would compensate for the different sized cranks. Maybe worth drawing around your cleats first on the base of the shoe so you know your old position for sure.

Google your cranks and find out the q as like I say, I'm guessing above. There could be no change at all between the cranks, I think some doubles and triples have the same q>

It could be the problem though, if you imagine your legs used to track straight down onto the pedal, now you feet could have moved in a few mm each, probably enough to cause your knees trouble when you're used to a pedalling action.

Out of interest, where is the pain in your knee? Below the kneecap and the inside of the leg?

lackofgrip

I've been jiggling the cleats and bike seat post etc about. Pain was in my left knee. Ow it's in my right. What is the q? Is that from crank centre from one side to other ?
My bottom bracket on the triple was FSA Gossamer and I remember it said something like BB30
My current one is GXP BB

Evil Laugh

Distance from outside of one crankarm to the other. Difference in FSA gossamer triples and doubles seems to be 10mm, 157 and 147.

If you've already moved your cleats about I guess you just have to try and set them up again from scratch and I'd recommend doing that through a good fitter if you have the cash. Well worth it.

As a rough guide though you want the center ball of your foot slightly forward (4-8mm) of the center of pedal axle when you come to rest on the cranks at 3 and 9 o clock with your heel level in the same plane as the crank arm. You want your hip, knee and ankle to all sit in the same vertical line through your leg, if that makes sense, you want your leg to be vertically level. And you should have some free movement heel in and heel out when you come to rest on the pedals at 3 and 9 after some revolutions of the cranks. So if you stop pedalling and you cant move your heel in, for eg, with one foot then you need to adjust cleat accordingly. Bear in mind adjusting this angle may mean you have to look at your left/right forward/back adjustment to as pivoting the cleat will change these settings. It'll help if you're on a turbo and you have some mirrors or a helper.

I think that's about it, I'm sure there are loads of online guides but still best to get a pro to do it if poss, less time consuming.

lackofgrip

Really appreciate your input, I've moved my feet forward of axle circa reading this : -

http://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/blo ... -position/
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm

As I'm size 13UK feet (euro49). I've also moved the cleats right upto the inside edge of each shoe and I'm going to take it from there. So in theory I'm hoping that makes up for the previous triple. There is a slight toe out angle on the cleats at the minute only a degree if that, so it gives me a good starting point.

What did you mean about hip being vertical you mean when the crank arm in the lowest position parallel to the seat tube?

Also just found this page

http://www.bikefittingtools.com/index.p ... 0mm-pack-2

Evil Laugh

Follow the steve Hogg method as best you can.

Just mean if your looking at your leg from the front the line you draw through center of hip, knee and ankle wants to be vertically level, in general. So your leg move straight up and down on the pedals not at an angle like what could have been created by narrowing the cranks.

If you change your position you need to go easy for a week or two to let your muscles
get used to it. As long as you don't have obvious pain, run with it and see how you go. Moving ball of foot in front of pedal axle was a good gain for me. More power and more stability on the bike, especially out of saddle. If you move the cleats substantially back (feet forward) you'll likely want to move your saddle forward and up, assuming it was in the right place to start with.

Good luck!