Bow Fatality

hfidgen

"A man has died after a collision with a tipper lorry on a cycle superhighway in east London."

Anyone know what actually happened? They keep showing shots of the McDonalds stretch where the cycle lane crosses the road lanes but absolutely no details.

As someone who uses that stretch a lot, I quite want to know what happened that made this a fatal accident compared to just a normal commute?

ooermissus

Guy in his 50s apparently on the Bow flyover. http://www.lfgss.com/thread74504.html#post2480138

(Apparently the driver was arrested.)

BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15440182

notsoblue

http://road.cc/content/news/46913-first ... bed-bloody

georgee

Absolute disgrace, shame on you TFL.

ooermissus

notsoblue wrote:

http://road.cc/content/news/46913-first-cyclist-fatality-barclays-cycle-superhigway-junction-described-bloody

the blog road.cc links to is worth reading

http://diamondgeezer.blogspot.com/2011/ ... clist.html

Mr Plum

ooermissus wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

http://road.cc/content/news/46913-first-cyclist-fatality-barclays-cycle-superhigway-junction-described-bloody

the blog road.cc links to is worth reading

http://diamondgeezer.blogspot.com/2011/ ... clist.html

That blog was an interesting read. A tragic accident that will hopefully make TfL stop dragging their feet over this issue - it shouldn't come down to this.

Koncordski

So is that 14 cyclists killed in london this year now?

How many more do TFL need to justify rethinking their whole approach to cycle 'infrastructure'?

Don't undertake and then being given cycle feeder lanes up the inside at lights is utter stupidity yet is standard practice for TFL. I don't want them installing things that help me get into an accident. Having the little strip there is worse because if you dare to stray outside it for safety you get abuse from some drivers. RIP fella, I'm disgusted that it was all so avoidable. :roll:

Cleat Eastwood

I'm not being funny, and i dont live in or know london, but what the feck are the council doing about these deaths. Every week there seems to be some sort of bike related accident, are these incidents not reported on the local news etc. I mean if they were deaths by food poisoning you could bet your bottom dollar health and safety would be onto it - is it just becoming common place now that people are inured to them. Terrible shame.

Wallace1492

Thoughts go out to cyclists family, friend's and colleagues.

bails87

Cleat Eastwood
The thing is, there are ten people a day killed on the roads in the UK. A single cyclist every few weeks isn't anything above what's already accepted and tolerated as 'normal'.

I agree though. If it was ten people a week being killed on building sites or by exploding gas mains then something would be done.

el_presidente

bails87 wrote:

Cleat Eastwood
The thing is, there are ten people a day killed on the roads in the UK. A single cyclist every few weeks isn't anything above what's already accepted and tolerated as 'normal'.

I agree though. If it was ten people a week being killed on building sites or by exploding gas mains then something would be done.

3,500 dead a year, unbelievable really the level of acceptance or wilful ignorance. If the car was invented now it would never be allowed.

meanredspider

bails87 wrote:

Cleat Eastwood
The thing is, there are ten people a day killed on the roads in the UK. A single cyclist every few weeks isn't anything above what's already accepted and tolerated as 'normal'.

I agree though. If it was ten people a week being killed on building sites or by exploding gas mains then something would be done.

Yup - I went to a Risk lecture a few years ago (risk is what my current job is about) and the guy was making some interesting points about what society will trade for more risk. Car travel is the classic example - the utility is worth the risk. He was weighing that up against what society will tolerate from the healthcare industry and how quickly there's an outcry if just a relatively small number of people die.

Schobiedoo

I had the very fortunate pleasure to know the guy involved and spent many hours discussing cycling with him. Very sad and tragic news.

I've crossed that roundabout on foot many times and it's always dangerous - especially the Northern exit onto the A12 with drivers going too fast in their eagerness to get onto the expressway.

RIP

Gussio

Schobiedoo wrote:

I had the very fortunate pleasure to know the guy involved and spent many hours discussing cycling with him. Very sad and tragic news.

I've crossed that roundabout on foot many times and it's always dangerous - especially the Northern exit onto the A12 with drivers going too fast in their eagerness to get onto the expressway.

RIP

Sorry for the loss of your friend. A sad story made even more tragic through a personal connection.

RIP

Keith1983

Cleat Eastwood wrote:

if they were deaths by food poisoning you could bet your bottom dollar health and safety would be onto it

Nope, food poisoning is Environmental Health Departments problem. The bigges tproblem here is that councils get away with doing what they like when it comes to roads and they don't have to answer to anyone.

Bassjunkieuk

el_presidente wrote:

3,500 dead a year, unbelievable really the level of acceptance or wilful ignorance. If the car was invented now it would never be allowed.

A figure that is seemingly forgotten when people go off on one about killer cyclists and that doesn't include the non-fatal accidents that ruin many more lives each year.

It is an appalling shame this has happened and on a supposed "Cycle Superhighway" you know those bits of blue paint that TFL think make cyclists lives akin to riding through medows with fluffy bunnies hopping around you.....however the reality is as others have pointed out a false sense of security, drivers viewing any riders NOT using the blue coated tarmac to be intruding on "their" road space and inexperienced riders (the very riders they hope to attract) being encouraged to use some very poor roadcraft.

Having seen the video about how the Dutch got their cycle lanes I can only hope we are nearing that "tipping" point where someone high up grows a pair of balls and stops pandering to the motorists and instead does what is right for the greater good of society.

My sincere thoughts and condolences go out to the cyclists family and friends, lets just hope his unfortunate death wasn't in vain.

ooermissus

Gussio wrote:

Schobiedoo wrote:

I had the very fortunate pleasure to know the guy involved and spent many hours discussing cycling with him. Very sad and tragic news.

I've crossed that roundabout on foot many times and it's always dangerous - especially the Northern exit onto the A12 with drivers going too fast in their eagerness to get onto the expressway.

RIP

Sorry for the loss of your friend. A sad story made even more tragic through a personal connection.

RIP

+1

Roarster

My thoughts are with his loveds ones.

I ride over the bow flyover on my way to and back from work. When i started riding this route i assumed i would go under the flyover via the roundabout, however i noticed that evey other cyclist seemed to ride over the flyover missing the roundabout. The reasons for this i would assume is becuase its faster and safer. TFL need to rethink this roundabout and give more priority to cyclists and try to encourage them not to cycle up a fast and busy flyover.

Origamist

@Schobiedoo - sorry to hear about the loss of your friend.

Fatal collision in Bow
25 October 2011

Appeal type
Other appeal
Incident Date
24/10/2011

Incident Location
Payne Road, E3 at the Bow Roundabout.

Description
Police are appealing for witnesses following a fatal road traffic collision in Bow.

Police were called at 08:47hrs on Monday 24 October by London Ambulance Service (LAS) following reports of a road traffic collision involving a tipper lorry and a cyclist in Bow. The incident happened in Payne Road E3 (Bow Roundabout)

Officers and LAS attended and the 58-year old male cyclist was pronounced dead at the scene.

Next of kin have been informed but the man is yet to be formally identified.

The male lorry driver stopped at the scene. He was arrested on suspicion of causing death by careless driving and subsequently bailed to return to an east London police station on Friday 18 November pending further enquiries.

Officers from the Road Death Investigation Unit based at Chadwell Heath are investigating the circumstances surrounding the incident.

Anyone with information is asked to call the incident room on 020 8597 4874.

http://content.met.police.uk/Appeal/Fat ... 7246745782

Greg T

I've cycled that flyover once - my heart was in my mouth but it looked like a better bet than mixing it with the traffic on that roundabout.

Sorry for your loss Schobiedoo.

starbug

@Schobiedoo - I am sorry to hear of the loss of your friend.

I have not seen the 'super-highway' in east london however recently I decided to try out the CS8 towards SW London as I thought that this would afford me more protection than my usual route..

I cannot remember the specifc locations but towards the end I was having to swap to an off road lane, crossing over the road at one of the roundabouts which was both annoying and I would say dangerous as the cars are going around at a fair rate. Prior to this along the embankment the roundabouts are serious pinch points where the CS8 thins out and is usually blocked by cars. The pavement is so wide with so few people, why couldn't they lose a bit of pavement and keep the width of the cycle lane? Later I had to move across the road near wandsworth rail station which was not fun and I think could be v dangerous with an inexperienced rider and an impatient car driver.

I am now back to my route along The Kings Road which is a shame but it feels a lot safer and a lot quicker. No roundabouts, no changing lanes, slower traffic. A bit more effort in planning the CS8 would have made a great difference to it's safety although I am aware that lots of people like the CS8. Not impressed personally. I imagine the route in east london is equally as bad if not worse.

+1 to bassjunkieuk's comments

deptfordmarmoset

Shobiedoo, if by any chance you know any of the guy's family please pass on our deep regrets.

That's the second time in 3 years that I've passed by a place one day before a cyclist dies there; it's a deeply unsettling feeling. I was travelling into town from Stratford last Sunday and, unfamiliar with the road, I had only just realised where I was and as I was debating whether to take the roundabout or the flyover, a flurry of cars passed by and instead of slowing for a safe gap to move over for the flyover I went straight on to the roundabout. Even on a dry, mild Sunday, the roundabout was completely snarled up - so much for the TfL holy grail of traffic flow! I remember noticing some blue paint appearing which went in strange directions - certainly not in cycling directions - which it seemed wiser to ignore rather than get distracted by. It's a complete dog's dinner of a road system.

I have to say that I'm beginning to believe that the only time cyclists really hold up traffic flow is when traffic knocks us down. One day, TfL will realise that too.

mybreakfastconsisted

deptfordmarmoset wrote:

Shobiedoo, if by any chance you know any of the guy's family please pass on our deep regrets.

I have to say that I'm beginning to believe that the only time cyclists really hold up traffic flow is when traffic knocks us down. One day, TfL will realise that too.

Wot south London said.

Drysuitdiver

bails87 wrote:

Cleat Eastwood
The thing is, there are ten people a day killed on the roads in the UK. A single cyclist every few weeks isn't anything above what's already accepted and tolerated as 'normal'.

I agree though. If it was ten people a week being killed on building sites or by exploding gas mains then something would be done.

50 fatalities a year on building sites. not including chronic illness deaths. and nobody outside the industry bats an eyelid . a nurse a week being killed or firefighter or copper or teacher yes, that would get noticed.

my deepest condolonces go to the family of the guy. hopefully his death will be of benefit to the rest of us cyclists who use that route. its just a tragedy somebody had to die to get things to happen

waddlie

I work in road safety (albeit on the motorway so not in any way that should affect cyclists) and just wanted to correct some stats being thrown around.

3500 deaths per year / 10 per day was about right in the late 1990s. Things have got a lot better since then. The death toll in 2010 was 1857, about half what it was 10-15 years previously and equates to about 5 people per day rather than 10.

It's still 5 per day too many, and having to quite literally pick up the pieces after too many fatal accidents never gets any less gut-wrenching.

There was an interesting article in the Guardian about road deaths reducing but fatal collisions involving cyclists increasing, linked here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/30/road-deaths-fall-record-low

Thoughts are with the family and friends of the gentleman who was lost this week.

ooermissus

RIP: Brian Dorling. http://bit.ly/vmE0LC

bails87

Waddlie
Fair point on the 3500/year. I honestly thought I'd seen that figure for a very recent year, must have been mistaken though.

AS you say, 5 per day is still too many, that kind of fatality rate on the rail network, for example, would be a scandal.