Moving towards downhill

Muttly1981

Over the last few months i've been getting more and more into the downhill side of biking so i've decided that after chirstmas i'll be going for a bighitter of a bike but not sure weather to go for a 180mm fullsuss (spesh bighit, Kona Stinky etc) or go all out for a 200mm downhill rig. I've been looking at a 2010 Norco Atomik which i can get at a good/great price or build up a 2nd hand Stinky or something along those lines, i'll be riding mainly Farmer Johns DH and heading over to places like Molfre, Inners and the odd trip to Morzine.
I'll still have my Meta 5 for everyday trail center/moors riding etc so having a long travel bike that climbs won't be massively important.

Opinions greatly appreciated

rockmonkeysc

Stinky is aweful & Atomik isn't great. I find 200mm DH bikes are a bit dull until you push them to the absolute limit of your ability.
I use a Giant Reign X for downhill & it is amazingly good. More than up to the job for 90% of uk DH trails. Rides so well & takes big hits easily. It's a great mini downhill bike & completely bombproof so a good used buy.

Muttly1981

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Stinky is aweful & Atomik isn't great. I find 200mm DH bikes are a bit dull until you push them to the absolute limit of your ability.
I use a Giant Reign X for downhill & it is amazingly good. More than up to the job for 90% of uk DH trails. Rides so well & takes big hits easily. It's a great mini downhill bike & completely bombproof so a good used buy.

Cheers for the reply

I was thinking about the Stinky as my mate used to own one and he says he misses it everytime he goes out. The Atomik was on the list because the spec seems to be decent with the 888's, Fox Van R, E-Thirteen and SRAM kit i could get that bike for around £1200 brand new on what was a £2k+ bike last year. As for pushing a 200mm bike to the limit of my ability wouldn't take much pushing lol
Should have added that i'm gonna be riding pretty much every weekend with the plan to get competetive and have set myself the challenge to enter at least one race next year.

styxd

Buy a proper downhill bike, especially if you're going to be doing some racing. If you buy a Giant Reign/whatever, you'll only end up getting rid of it after a short while. £1200 would buy you a very good 2nd hand bike.

Dave_P1

There's some second hand bargins out there at the moment.
If your going all out, big drops, DH and racing then a decent 8" travel bike will be worth the money, just bear in mind there hard to ride on anything other than DH.

Muttly1981

Dave_P1 wrote:

There's some second hand bargins out there at the moment.
If your going all out, big drops, DH and racing then a decent 8" travel bike will be worth the money, just bear in mind there hard to ride on anything other than DH.

I'll probably be getting the bike on finance so new will be the route as i said i can get a new Norco Atomik for around £1200 it's this model http://www.norco.com/archives/2010/?id=atomik one of my mates rides up at fort bill every 6 weeks so i plan to get upto speed/standard to ride up there with him. I have my Meta for all other riding so the downhill bike will be for just downhill

rockmonkeysc

If your going all out, big drops, DH and racing then a decent 8" travel bike will be worth the money, just bear in mind there hard to ride on anything other than DH.

What a load of b@llocks. I do DH racing on my hardtail & can keep up with most people on 8" DH bikes. Even on a hardtail big 8'-10' drops & jumps are easy enough. The Reign X is more than enough for 90% of DH trails. One of the fastest riders I have raced against races on a Reign X & beats sponsored riders on £5000 custom built DH bikes.

styxd

What a load of b@llocks. I do DH racing on my hardtail & can keep up with most people on 8" DH bikes. Even on a hardtail big 8'-10' drops & jumps are easy enough. The Reign X is more than enough for 90% of DH trails. One of the fastest riders I have raced against races on a Reign X & beats sponsored riders on £5000 custom built DH bikes.

Cant you read or something?

The OP wants to race, ride Fort Bill, go to Morzine etc. This is exactly what a downhill bike is built for. So why are you obsessed with recommending a bike that isnt a downhill bike?

Pudseyp

It dpends on your budget, you can get a new long travel rig such as the Spesh Status 1
for £1,800 which is the big hit replacement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed9HfBC7YNA

If you can get away with a small/medium....this is a bargain
http://www.tritoncycles.co.uk/m1b252s19 ... S_GB/24407

But like anything it comes down to budget.

rockmonkeysc

Budget DH bikes are generally not good & you will get better value from a freeride bike which is more than up to the job of any DH track including Fort Bill & personally I would rather have a freeride bike at Morzine rather than an ill handling DH bike on crap suspension.
Unless the budget would run to a bike with well serviced Boxxers or Fox 40's then I would forget DH bikes. I looked for one within a £2k budget but couldn't find anything with good suspension that also pedalled & rode well.
The Norco Atomik is a pretty poor bike & the Kona Stinky is just plain aweful.
A 170/180mm travel FR bike with Totems, Lyriks or 36 Van's would be a much better buy

junglist_matty

Unless you are really pushing the limits you won't need a 200mm bike....

I could do DH runs just as quick on my hardtail NS Surge with 150mm Z150 FR forks as I did back in 2005 on my Kona Stinky... The stinky was sold after about 8months, its not a great bike, although that was 6 years ago now!

Pudseyp

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Budget DH bikes are generally not good & you will get better value from a freeride bike which is more than up to the job of any DH track including Fort Bill & personally I would rather have a freeride bike at Morzine rather than an ill handling DH bike on crap suspension.
Unless the budget would run to a bike with well serviced Boxxers or Fox 40's then I would forget DH bikes. I looked for one within a £2k budget but couldn't find anything with good suspension that also pedalled & rode well.
The Norco Atomik is a pretty poor bike & the Kona Stinky is just plain aweful.
A 170/180mm travel FR bike with Totems, Lyriks or 36 Van's would be a much better buy

Rubbish.....Big Hit's sold by the bucket load, and I used to see them all the time at the likes on Cwm Carn and Inners....the new Status will actually be raced as a factory bike so they must have faith in the frame and its ability.

Another shout is this, a cracking spec at £2k now reduced to £1,500
http://www.evanscycles.com/products/sco ... gn=froogle

rockmonkeysc

True the factory team will race the status alongside the demo. It won't be an off the shelf frame, it will be hand built to higher standards & all the components will be vastly upgraded. The Domain DC forks on the status weigh over 3kg and have poor damping.

Pudseyp

RockmonkeySC wrote:

True the factory team will race the status alongside the demo. It won't be an off the shelf frame, it will be hand built to higher standards & all the components will be vastly upgraded. The Domain DC forks on the status weigh over 3kg and have poor damping.

But will it get you down a DH track ????? yes it will

rockmonkeysc

Yes but will the cheap components last long? Probably not
And will it kill your back pushing it back up the hill? Almost certainly yes.

Pudseyp

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Yes but will the cheap components last long? Probably not
And will it kill your back pushing it back up the hill? Almost certainly yes.

If you look after them...to me the Scott has a great spec for the money, the Status is fair value you don't really need a top groupset on a DH bike as gravity does most of it, if it's reilable then thats all you need plus with almost certain tumbles (unless your name is sam hill) the average parts are cheaper to replace.

Got a decent review here
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/ ... -12-45229/

Ok they did comment of the fork and rear stiffness...but it's a budget bike and not a racer and therefore half the price of a DH thoroughbred.

Muttly1981

I know it's a daft question but why is the Atomik such a poor bike? Was asking a few downhill riders i know and they think it'd be a decent bike to start on and build up over time, i.e Fox DHX 5.0, Boxxers/40's, brakes. I expect to brake some of the componants within the first few months so it'd be a bit pointless to run X-O, Boxxers etc until i'm hitting runs at speed and staying upright. :?

ilovedirt

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Yes but will the cheap components last long? Probably not
And will it kill your back pushing it back up the hill? Almost certainly yes.

Yes
and probably not, sounds like you need to man the fuck up. Just because you ride a hardtail downhill doesn't make your opinion more valid than anyone else's

Yes, a full on downhill bike isn't ideal for a beginner downhill rider, as they can be hard to push fully if you're not used to the weight and suspension. Something like the scott voltage fr20 would be an ideal bike, they're made really well, the components may err on the side of budget, however they're perfectly sturdy, and work well for what a beginner will need. They're also very upgradable and extremely versatile (in terms of gravity riding). Probably one of the best budget bikes on the market, if I was after a brand new bike, it's probably what I'd buy.

Muttly1981

Forgot to add that i've already looked at the Scott Voltage and was leaning towards it (sucked in by the looks) but after riding it (no downhill riding) i didn't really like the feel, i don't know if it was set to short or long travel but it felt like i was going to fall off the back of it although not much chance of flipping backwards with the Domains upfront and if sat down it was a to pedal (again may be set up) as the angles seem just wrong. I have rode a few downhill bikes in the past and even just sitting on them they just felt totally different to how the Voltage felt :-s

nicklouse

bikes are slacker than ever.

scott always have a short cockpit.

rockmonkeysc

If you want a budget DH bike then why not go for something which is actually good value like a Rose Beefcake DH. Domain DC forks & XT transmission for £1500
Norco Atomic is a terrible frame sh1t suspension which gives too much pedal feedback and feels strangely unstable.
Scott Voltage rides ok but is not good value when you compare it to a Rose Beefcake, Saracen Myst or the YT Industries Tues DH which are all better specced and cheaper.
You can get a good deal on a 2011 Giant Glory if you look around, I have seen them for £3000

Muttly1981

RockmonkeySC wrote:

If you want a budget DH bike then why not go for something which is actually good value like a Rose Beefcake DH. Domain DC forks & XT transmission for £1500
Norco Atomic is a terrible frame sh1t suspension which gives too much pedal feedback and feels strangely unstable.
Scott Voltage rides ok but is not good value when you compare it to a Rose Beefcake, Saracen Myst or the YT Industries Tues DH which are all better specced and cheaper.
You can get a good deal on a 2011 Giant Glory if you look around, I have seen them for £3000

Cheers for the advice on the Atomic it's hard to understand whats wrong with a bike when people just say they are crap.

I love the Rose Beefcake but as far as i know there are no UK distributors so finance would be a problem, i'd also be worried about buying a bike i'd never even sat on :?

Giant Glory is just to far out of my range at the minute

ilovedirt

RockmonkeySC wrote:

If you want a budget DH bike then why not go for something which is actually good value like a Rose Beefcake DH. Domain DC forks & XT transmission for £1500
Norco Atomic is a terrible frame sh1t suspension which gives too much pedal feedback and feels strangely unstable.
Scott Voltage rides ok but is not good value when you compare it to a Rose Beefcake, Saracen Myst or the YT Industries Tues DH which are all better specced and cheaper.
You can get a good deal on a 2011 Giant Glory if you look around, I have seen them for £3000

Didn't you just say the domain DCs were heavy and badly damped?

Evans have some scott voltages on sale at the moment, so they're great value, maybe not at the £2200 RRP. They do have a short cockpit though.

The Northern Monkey

The Domain DC's are around 7.5lbs!
The RC is better than the R, but not by much.

I nearly bought a Voltage, but as Nicklouse mentioned, they have a very short cockpit.

You don't want a hardtail

felix.london

Muttly1981 wrote:

I love the Rose Beefcake but as far as i know there are no UK distributors so finance would be a problem, i'd also be worried about buying a bike i'd never even sat on :?

I've been in contact with Rose as I'm getting a Beefcake DH 2. They will send you out a test bike for €100 - if you buy they'll pay you half of that back. Bit of a gamble

You can probably find a company that can organise finance too

Pudseyp

Actually I take back recomeding the Spesh and Scott....remembered this !!!
http://www.canyon.com/_uk/mountainbikes ... tml?b=2577

Looks amazing in white !! and £1.760

http://www.canyon.com/flash/bike/images ... lpaper.jpg

http://www.tri-ride.com/en/bike-industr ... -frx-2012/

Chalky76

Seen plenty of Voltage's at Morzine over the years and that is a good enough endorsement for me that they can handle proper dh

I would be wary of going for a full-on dh bike. I know a couple of guys who have more fun and go faster on shorter travel rigs, after having spent a period of time (and a fair bit of money) on a true dh bike.

Each to their own though. Best thing would be to give a few different bikes a go

rockmonkeysc

Domain RC has motion control. I have got a single crown RC & it does have problems with packing down over fast big hits but most of the time it's ok. The Domain R has a very basic damper & doesn't ride at all well. All domains do weigh a ton, especially the dual crowns.
Rose have got a UK distributor, very helpful & knows his onions.

Pudseyp

Would still rather have the Canyon, you can adjust the rear travel 185-203, Fox shock, Fox Forks, the spec is pretty damm good, and its looks could give you a stiffee......If I had a spare £1,700 one would be on it's way to me.....

ilovedirt

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Domain RC has motion control. I have got a single crown RC & it does have problems with packing down over fast big hits but most of the time it's ok. The Domain R has a very basic damper & doesn't ride at all well. All domains do weigh a ton, especially the dual crowns.
Rose have got a UK distributor, very helpful & knows his onions.

Ah, my bad. I thought they all had moco damping, i had a domain 318 (RC) with moco damping and it rode well enough. Bit weighty though.