Riding hills in the saddle or out

KnightOfTheLongTights

seems to me that to surge or attack on a hill you'd almost certainly have to throw it into a bigger gear and get up - how long you stay out of the saddle like that then seems to be a bit more personal preference.

But if you have the ability to sustain several periods of high heart rates / hard efforts, then remaining out of the saddle in the bigger gear would almost certainly maintain a higher speed, no?

peejay78

amaferanga wrote:

peejay78 wrote:

it's generally accepted that getting out of the saddle is less efficient than staying put.

As I understand it it depends on gradient and cadence actually.

obviously. but nevermind.

jibberjim

KnightOfTheLongTights wrote:

But if you have the ability to sustain periods of very high heart rates / v hard efforts, then remaining out of the saddle in the bigger gear would almost certainly maintain a higher speed, no?

No, there's no reason why your power will be higher out of the saddle than in, at very low cadences this is almost certain the case as you get to use your bodyweight on the down stroke, however as soon as the cadences are higher - which they will be of necessity to produce large powers (there's too much dead spot when pedalling very slowly where little or no power is produced) then seated or standing appears to be a very personal thing where anything from 80% of power at VO2max to 150% of power at vo2max according to one study.

80% of power at vo2max suggests someone may well do a 30minute climb all out of the saddle as that is most efficient for them. For someone at the 150% end though, then they're unlikely to do anything but very short durations out of the saddle (for me 150% would be about my 50second power)

So given the gearing, picking the appropriate position for you as an individual will be best it may well be standing, but it may also be seated. Also for the aerobically unfit, you'll almost always resort to standing because lower cadences are less aerobically challenged. But standing does not mean you are unfit.

Roadtart

Usually seated for climbing, but if I have to stand then I pop down one cog on the cassette (usually easier as I'm also using my weight).

I do prefer to start my climbs on the second or third largest cog of the cassette, and then have somewhere to go (on the cassette - to the 25T and 27T sprockets) as the legs "worsen" on longer climbs. If its a ride with short climbs, I can normally get away with climbing using the big chainring too. On my rides around Sussex, Surrey and Kent, I rarely go to the small chainring.

I think someone might be telling me that I'm not riding big enough climbs, although I'm regularly up inclines such as Kidds Hill, Leith Hill, Cob Hill Lane and Jib Jack's Hill. Not monsters, but testing all the same.

KnightOfTheLongTights

OK, interesting stuff.

Maverick54

Roadtart wrote:

Usually seated for climbing, but if I have to stand then I pop down one cog on the cassette (usually easier as I'm also using my weight).

I do prefer to start my climbs on the second or third cog of the cassette, and then have somewhere to go (on the cassette - to the 12T and 11T sprockets) as the legs "worsen" on longer climbs. If its a ride with short climbs, I can normally get away with climbing using the big chainring too. On my rides around Sussex, Surrey and Kent, I rarely go to the small chainring.

I think someone might be telling me that I'm not riding big enough climbs, although I'm regularly up inclines such as Kidds Hill, Leith Hill, Cob Hill Lane and Jib Jack's Hill. Not monsters, but testing all the same.

Cob Lane is definitely a monster in my view! A small one but a monster all the same.....

Roadtart

Short, sharp, and a shock to most. I quite relish it. I also like the climb up from the Resevoir, past Ardingly College, which is quite a long drag, as is the one up from Lindfield back towards Turners Hill - they're both easy though.

Love the new name for Groombridge Hill, towards Tun. Wells.....the Col du Groombridge.

keef66

@ Roadtart.."I do prefer to start my climbs on the second or third cog of the cassette, and then have somewhere to go (on the cassette - to the 12T and 11T sprockets) as the legs "worsen" on longer climbs"

If you're dropping to the 12 and 11T sprockets you're making it harder to pedal.

have a glance at your cassette next time you're climbing; I doubt you'll be in the 11 or 12T sprocket!

Roadtart

CORRECTION

Sorry, wrong way round isn't it......I meant that I start in the third largest sprocket (a 23T) and then go larger, up to the 25T and 27T.

CORRECTION

I blame a very stressful morning. Oh, and thanks for letting me feel like a fool. I did the looking like one all by myself.

ineedalager

I went back to my hill I did the 5 hill reps on yesteday and I did the frist half out of the saddle dropped down a gear and I noticed I was doing 9mph usually I would only be doing 6mph so I was putting more power in and I seemed to get to the top a bit quicker than my previous rides when I can sustain 9 mph the whole way up it will be something. I have a bit to go yet though. I know I am not going to go 9mph up the hill if a stay seated.

KnightOfTheLongTights

I often get out of the saddle if I want to increase my cadence on a climb - with a view to then maintaining that cadence when I sit back down.

(No gear changing invovled in this case.)

oldwelshman

ineedalager wrote:

I went back to my hill I did the 5 hill reps on yesteday and I did the frist half out of the saddle dropped down a gear and I noticed I was doing 9mph usually I would only be doing 6mph so I was putting more power in and I seemed to get to the top a bit quicker than my previous rides when I can sustain 9 mph the whole way up it will be something. I have a bit to go yet though. I know I am not going to go 9mph up the hill if a stay seated.

You will if you pedal faster

keef66

Roadtart wrote:

CORRECTION

Sorry, wrong way round isn't it......I meant that I start in the third largest sprocket (a 23T) and then go larger, up to the 25T and 27T.

CORRECTION

I blame a very stressful morning. Oh, and thanks for letting me feel like a fool. I did the looking like one all by myself.

BUGGER! I thought we'd discovered the next Chris Hoy

thegreatdivide

This 10 year old kid could probably teach you a few things about climbing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClozVBQ9 ... re=related

ineedalager

Yes well impressive he has no weight to carrry up the climb. I would be one of those knackered looking blokes he overtook well embarrissing!

daviddb

Drat Whippersnappers! It was ever thus........

Thanks for the link.

apreading

Since reading this thread, I have been getting up out of the saddle more and improving at it already. Now find it a useful extra tool in the box but only for appropriate moments.

Garz

meanredspider wrote:

I've read and been told that I should stay in the saddle as much as possible. Getting out of the saddle can give short extra bursts of power and work some different muscles. It will, however, increase your HR a chunk. Given that it is useful from time-to-time, it is worth training for it a bit too.

+1

I am a stocky rider and probably genetically suited to sprinting. If I get out of the saddle I become incredibly inneficient. On long drags I tend to overtake friends whom are the out of the saddle strollers described in the OP. I can train on the turbo and have found to improve on my out of saddle times (yes you can use real hills too) but for a stocky stumper your best sticking to the saddle to save overall energy.

ineedalager

I have been doing hill reps once a week and throw in some out of the saddle stuff aswell. I hear what your saying on using up your energy as when I put in say 1/3 of the first part of the hill out of the saddle I feel kanckered for the rest of the hill. If I stay in the saddle I feel better and stronger up the whole hill but I can't match the speeds I get when out of the saddle.

I am still losing weight done to 13 stone 4 lbs now I'm 6` 1" I never been this light since I was in my 20's (56 now) My target is to get to 12 and a half stone.

I ride on my own mostly but I hooked up with a guy from Swindon Road Club now I know what time they meet I will go alone and see how I get on riding with a group.

roger_merriman

Out of the saddle for most part as.

a) my knees are not keen if push hard sitting.

b) I'm mostly MTB so it's natural to get out of the saddle.

c) On the road i'm on the SS for most part so you need to get out of the saddle to climb.

d) I enjoy getting out of the saddle!

jgsi

Remarkable that you managed to source an Allez that didn't have a compact double as oem fitment.
I doubt very much that you will lose enough weight to significantly improve pwr as a quick solution. So.
Suffer like the rest of us on hills but maybe swap that 39 for a 38 chainring and keep the 11 28 out of pure economics.. will give you an extra gear inch freedom and get into tempo riding uphill = seated or standing. avoiding silly gradients.. just dont do it like Bertie... just hate that style.

ineedalager

I got the Allez from Hargroves in Swindon 2011 sale bike I got them to do a price match for another internet site that had them for £429 2011 Allez is stock double I think 2012 is going to be compact. I didn't realise the benefit of having a compact for the hills until after I bought it. I have changed the cassette again to an 11 32T and used a Shimano Deore long cage mech. It makes it just a bit easier on the hills round here although I could get up them with the 13 26T it was hard work. still have the optiom to put a compact crank on there but I'm getting on fine with the 52/39 and 11 32T setup and I'm getting faster on the hills. As long as I don't try any mountains I'll be fine. Lucky for me there are none close to me.