Agressive trail bike

squiggoth

Hi there,

Looking for a longer legged version of my Anthem X really and would like some help making a short list.

key points:

In the 130-150mm travel range.
fun to ride
responsive, quick to accelerate and turn; if im mashing the pedals I want to be flying, not just running out of lungs.

I've tried a Canyon nerve AM, didn't like it, too far over the front wheel and it felt cumbersome. wasn't snappy in turns and didn't like changes in momentum, felt too soft even with the pro pedal on.

Took a spin on a Saracen Ariel which was very good, but the spec is too low for my liking. Felt snappy when you put down the power and good on the downhills.

alot of people have recommended the orange 5, and a 5min try on it it was very plush and felt nice when you peddled but its almost too common and it feels like it goes through the rear travel very quickly with the way I ride so ive crossed that off my list too really.

I ride mostly XC hard, very steep ups and downs with alot of tight, twisty singletrack flat land / undulating hills. On the descents im regularly bottoming out and it feels like the head angle is a little too steep for some of the rooty drops and steep sections. It feels a little sketchy in berms and really tight turns. I want my new bike to feel as responsive on the flat and twisty stuff, not too fussed about the speed of getting uphill but it needs to be able to get up ~25% gradient hills with tech sections without feeling too sluggish and bobbing about.

Really not sure what to look at, every company has a bike I could potentially get, and every suspension design (with the exception of specialized) sounds like it would fit the bill.

Cheers.

lawman

how much do you have to spend?? i recommend either the sl-r or HD version of the Ibis Mojo if your budget allows it, very light super responsive and by the sounds of it the Sl-r fits your bill perfectly, whyte's 146 is another to consider, as well as the pivot 5.7 and santa cruz blur TrC, granted all these are at the higher end of the price range though

bluechair84

What you are describing seems a bit conflicting- you want a fast reacting, agile bike for tight singletrack but what you have at the moment is too steep-a head angle? And you don't want to be too far over the front wheel? If you start to slacken it off or increase the front centre, the steering response will slow down.
The fastest most agile bike I've ever ridden was the Intense 5.5 - the thing was such a lunatic that it would require you to be riding way beyond your comfort zone on other bikes. I let a few friends ride it when they'd visit and taken them riding - they were petrified of the thing because unless you were going hell for leather it just wasn't stable. And the suspension is the best mix of pedalling and bump-soak I've used. For experienced riders, nothing touches it for speed over technical terrain. Pick one up second hand for not many pennies. But you'll find it has a steep head angle and a short wheel base so whilst it seems to fit the riding style you describe, the geometry is not what you seem to be looking for. Just keep trying bikes until you find one you like - they're a very personal thing.

miss notax

squiggoth wrote:

Took a spin on a Saracen Ariel which was very good, but the spec is too low for my liking. Felt snappy when you put down the power and good on the downhills.

alot of people have recommended the orange 5, and a 5min try on it it was very plush and felt nice when you peddled but its almost too common and it feels like it goes through the rear travel very quickly with the way I ride so ive crossed that off my list too really.

Custom build an Ariel with a spec you want or accept that 5's are not 'common' but just extremely 'popular' (for good reason I might add )

For what it's worth my riding sounds very simlar to yours and - for me - the 5 fits the bill perfectly. Very responsive, climbs beautifully, and can merrily hammer down pretty much anything.

Pudseyp

Trek Remedy.....simple

Stu Coops

bluechair84 wrote:

What you are describing seems a bit conflicting- you want a fast reacting, agile bike for tight singletrack but what you have at the moment is too steep-a head angle? And you don't want to be too far over the front wheel? If you start to slacken it off or increase the front centre, the steering response will slow down.
The fastest most agile bike I've ever ridden was the Intense 5.5 - the thing was such a lunatic that it would require you to be riding way beyond your comfort zone on other bikes. I let a few friends ride it when they'd visit and taken them riding - they were petrified of the thing because unless you were going hell for leather it just wasn't stable. And the suspension is the best mix of pedalling and bump-soak I've used. For experienced riders, nothing touches it for speed over technical terrain. Pick one up second hand for not many pennies. But you'll find it has a steep head angle and a short wheel base so whilst it seems to fit the riding style you describe, the geometry is not what you seem to be looking for. Just keep trying bikes until you find one you like - they're a very personal thing.

Think he read all that in a mag

ilovedirt

If you liked the geo of the 5, why not get one and get a custom shock tune that ramps up in the middle of the travel? I have the same issue on my patriot, I haven't gotten round to getting a shock custom tuned yet though.

paul.skibum

Pudseyp wrote:

Trek Remedy.....simple

Remedy sounds the right answer - Enduro maybe - Reign possibly - Nomad - Tracer 2.

Its a long list without a budget figure to work to.

squiggoth

Thanks for the input, there's money to be spent. But id like to keep it below £3,500.

Do you think custom build is the way to go?
I see alot of bikes from big companies with weak links in there parts, or what I see as silly upgrades like having slx shifters but an xt front mech.

I was looking at the tracer 2 but no one seems to have a demo arround, Nomad does look nice, as does a transition bandit. Even with a budget it seems a long list, just wondered if there was any I could cross off from the start. Or if I should focus on one suspension design set up.

Thanks again

bluechair84

Stu Coops wrote:

bluechair84 wrote:

What you are describing seems a bit conflicting- you want a fast reacting, agile bike for tight singletrack but what you have at the moment is too steep-a head angle? And you don't want to be too far over the front wheel? If you start to slacken it off or increase the front centre, the steering response will slow down.
The fastest most agile bike I've ever ridden was the Intense 5.5 - the thing was such a lunatic that it would require you to be riding way beyond your comfort zone on other bikes. I let a few friends ride it when they'd visit and taken them riding - they were petrified of the thing because unless you were going hell for leather it just wasn't stable. And the suspension is the best mix of pedalling and bump-soak I've used. For experienced riders, nothing touches it for speed over technical terrain. Pick one up second hand for not many pennies. But you'll find it has a steep head angle and a short wheel base so whilst it seems to fit the riding style you describe, the geometry is not what you seem to be looking for. Just keep trying bikes until you find one you like - they're a very personal thing.

Think he read all that in a mag

I think you got all you said from a life of twitter / facebook. Congratulations on a worthwhile post.
And just so you don't think I'm quoting my riding experiences vicariously; The weekend I got my frame and built up my 5.5 in 2007:

rockmonkeysc

What would probably be perfect for you is a Giant Trance X with a 140mm u-turn fork. It will climb almost as well as your Anthem with the forks set at 110-120mm but extend them to 140mm for the descents and it rides like a freeride bike. Always wanted to do this to my trance after trying one buut sold it & got a Reign X instead.
The Giant Reign would also do what you want but won't be quite as good at tech climbs as the trance or if you want to go all out on the descents but still with reasonable climbing ability then the Reign X is amazing.

Pudseyp

squiggoth wrote:

Thanks for the input, there's money to be spent. But id like to keep it below £3,500.

Do you think custom build is the way to go?
I see alot of bikes from big companies with weak links in there parts, or what I see as silly upgrades like having slx shifters but an xt front mech.

I was looking at the tracer 2 but no one seems to have a demo arround, Nomad does look nice, as does a transition bandit. Even with a budget it seems a long list, just wondered if there was any I could cross off from the start. Or if I should focus on one suspension design set up.

Thanks again

The remedy is a cracking bike, though if your considering a custom build take a look at the Tomac Snyper 140 at £920 at CRC mine built up is light, agile and a demon downhill, other frames to consider are Devinci Dixon, Mythic Rune or Spitfire (all around £1,200) from Freeborn or perhaps the Nukeproof mega.... I went the custom build root to have a bike that is individual and different, with £3.5k if you shop around for fork and groupset deals you should have a very nice machine

rockmonkeysc

I tried the Remedy at a demo day and there were a few people who didn't like it at all. Personally I didn't like the way it steers, seems to kind of just drop in to turns. It also steers too quickly for an all mountain bike, feels more like a longer travel xc bike than an all mountain bike.

Pudseyp

RockmonkeySC wrote:

I tried the Remedy at a demo day and there were a few people who didn't like it at all. Personally I didn't like the way it steers, seems to kind of just drop in to turns. It also steers too quickly for an all mountain bike, feels more like a longer travel xc bike than an all mountain bike.

Kind of agree but trek have been clever in putting the Remedy into the "aggresive trial" bike category....after all what is a true all mountain bike ? and what use would it be in the UK agreed there are true all mountain bikes for thrasing in France but the Remedy is more than enough for trail centres and freeride tracks....a couple of my riding mates have them and they are fantastic machines for the likes of Llandegla black and the freeride track.

DodgeT

Can vouch for spesh enduro, 160mm front and rear, does anything you want it to do and does it well.

U turn / Talas forks as mentioned above, I personally dont get the idea... Fine if you are setting off on a massive climb, so set them low, then get to the top of a massive descent, set them high etc. But for general riding ie. lots of ups mixed with lots of flats and downs, some short some long and everything in between, it would be like manualy adjusting your seatpost, ie. you'd have to keep doing it all the time to get the best out of the bike? I've never tried one so this is just how I see it. be interested in owners comments.

I'd prefer a set-up your happy with and leave it at that. Apart from the seatpost of course which has to be adjustable on the fly

rockmonkeysc

after all what is a true all mountain bike ? and what use would it be in the UK

My Reign X is a true All Mountain beast & it makes a good allrounder & a amazing mini downhill bike which makes more sense than a true downhill bike in this country. Pretty sure it will be awesome at the Megavalanche next year

paul.skibum

£3.5k limits you on the Nomad - Maybe the Butcher though as its a little cheaper!

Stumpy Evo would ring my bell at sub £3k

Anonymous

Nomad is at the top end of AM with much ability at freeride and DH, but a damn nice bike on trails, especially technical, twisty and a bit of downward. New it breaks the bank on that budget but may be able to get some deals or a second hand / ex-demo.

Also look at the Blur LT. Like Nomad but more squarely in the AM territory (basically slightly shorter travel).

Intense Tracer is along the same lines.

All of these are VPP models, the virtual pivot thingy, which attempts to eliminate pedal induced compression and prevents suspension lockout under load, plus reduces the need for lockouts on shocks. i.e. reduces pedal bob.

Pinner

You would be stupid to overlook Specialized, I built up my own Stumpjumper Evo just before Specialized made a production version!
The brain shock makes it go as fast as any xc bike when you want it too, and you still get 140 or 150mm travel and a wicked stiff and light. My alloy framed bike is under 13kg with heavy kit, and an evo carbon was something like 12.7kg including a dropper seatpost with tubes still in too!

supersonic

I'd test a Scott Genius 20:

http://www.freetownsports.co.uk/proddet ... od=fts1211

27lbs is pretty light for a bike like this, highly adjustable suspension.

squiggoth

I tested the SB-66 on the weekend and it was fabulous in corners, flat corner bar drag good, downhill was eat up like nothing really, very good traction uphill and little to no bob seated and when out of saddle mashing. felt like it could climb anything .. but .. it didn't feel fun on the flat and felt soft to bunny hop, like it didn't have much 'pop'. Also on the flat it felt like it was a little sluggish, like you couldn't all out sprint it over 50m or so, not sure if it was the heavy ish build and double and bash on it or just the way it is.

The trance feels a little slow too, in steering and doesnt feel as stable as i'd like.

Can anyone relate to these and tell me if they have found what does it for them?
or am I looking for a miracle in a bike?

Thanks again for all your help, from everyone. Been super helpful and Ive looked into every suggestion.

1mancity2

The double and bash with its 36t chainring will limit the sprint, it takes some getting used too compared to a triple.

I know what you mean with the trance, thats why I changed to a reign.

DCR00

Yeti 575

Although that takes you into 150mm territory

Anonymous

squiggoth wrote:

The trance feels a little slow too, in steering and doesnt feel as stable as i'd like.

In terms of steering that could just be down to the choice of bars and stem. Such things are easily adjusted by changing them.

rrice

+1 for the Enduro - this is the one I turn to most from my collection of wheels simply because (in my view at least) it does everything superbly and it never ever fails to put a huge smile on my face.

nferrar

I'd have thought a Zesty or Spicy would be the obvious answer, apart from maybe the 'too common' issue depending on where you ride.

lostboysaint

Transition Covert.

Go back and have a look at how much MBUK liked their longtermer.

pilsburypie

nferrar wrote:

I'd have thought a Zesty or Spicy would be the obvious answer, apart from maybe the 'too common' issue depending on where you ride.

I will go with that. My limited experience is on a Trek fuel ex8 and now a 2011 Lapierres Zesty 514 - That's around your budget with a few quid left over. I think the Zesty is a lovely bike and I ride what I'd describe as agressive x country and a bit of downhill...... I give my bike some good abuse and it performs well. It aint AM geometry, but you have to make a sacrifice for ease on the ups as well as the downs.

ride_whenever

Genius / Genius LT, or a bionicon.

All of the above have the bipolar nature that you seem to be seeking. Of the genius/lt I'd go for the LT for you. It's always lumped in with the big hit bikes, but it's more designed to be a longer travel aggro trail bike. Basically it tends to be reviewed by travel rather than weight.

jonnyashworth

I would deffinately go down the custom build route. I built my remedy up from scratch (excuse the pune). Half the fun is in the building, I even had the frame shot blasted and powdercoated in a custom colour. It was a 2009 remedy 9 to begin with but I sold off the components I didn't want and replaced with stuff I did. When all was said and done I had a 160mm travel bike with chain guard + tensioner and a reverb dropper post that weighed in at 29lbs with pedals that cost me about £1500 (budget is always an issue as far as I'm concerned). It rides beautifully and gets loads of attention at the local trail centers. If I was to start a build now with your budget I would probably go for a remedy frame (with a drcv shock) or a spicy frame and have start by stripping it down powder coating it then sticking some new (good quality) frame bearings in and take it from there.