6 Week old bent/faulty Cube frame... Advice needed

GSP1984

6 weeks ago I bought a 2011 Cube Acid from J E James Cycles in Chesterfield.

It went in for it's 1 month free check up and I pointed out a few areas that concerned me a little, but everything was fine apparently.

This weekend I had the wheels off cleaning the bike and noticed the rear wheel (which has always been very close to the frame on one side, yet was completely fine) has significantly rubbed on the frame , this has resulted in roughly 3mm being grinded away over the last 6 weeks.

I took it to my local Cube specialist where thye checked everything, checked the dish of the wheel and tried a perfect wheel in it. They couldn't solve the problem and suggested the frame may be bent or faulty.

The bike is now with J E James who will presumably do the same checks as the Cube Specialist I took it to and come to the same conclusion, they have suggested they will then send the frame away.

Where do I stand with this, what are my rights with it being a 6 week old bike and what sort of solution response should I expect?

MountainMonster

As it is fairly clear the frame is defect, full replacement should be in order.

RevellRider

And you didn't notice the tyre rubbing whilst riding? This could, depend on your attitude towards JE James be classed as neglect

What will usually happen with Cube is, in the event of a warranty claim (which at work we'd put this down to) Cube will ask for photos of the affected part and they'll dispatch the replacement part from Germany. This can take upto 2 weeks. Then the shop should change the frame and not charge you for labour

heez29

They don't have to give you a new bike iirc. What they're doing is right and Cube will do the same as what the shop and the specialist has done.

They will probably replace the swingarm or the whole frame.

EDIT: It will all be under warranty(or at least should be.)

Andy B

If the frame has a manufacturing fault then Cube should honour their warranty

If the problem is caused by accidental damage they may offer you deal on a new frame under their crash replacement scheme

The frame may be sent back to Cube who will asses the frame if pics of the damage aren't sufficient to asses it fully and decide if it's warranty or accidental damage that has caused the problem

Generally Cube only take a couple of weeks to get a frame replaced under warranty or crash replacement, if they have that size and colour in stock. If not it may take longer if you want the same colour and size

GSP1984

RevellRider wrote:

And you didn't notice the tyre rubbing whilst riding? This could, depend on your attitude towards JE James be classed as neglect

When at a reasonable speed and cornering I did keep hearing a noise but couldn't put my figure on it or see a problem at the time.

RevellRider wrote:

What will usually happen with Cube is, in the event of a warranty claim (which at work we'd put this down to) Cube will ask for photos of the affected part and they'll dispatch the replacement part from Germany. This can take upto 2 weeks. Then the shop should change the frame and not charge you for labour

2 Weeks will suck as I had a cannock trip booked for this weekend. If that's their policy then fia r enough :I guess at least I know where I stand

Andy B wrote:

If the frame has a manufacturing fault then Cube should honour their warranty

If the problem is caused by accidental damage they may offer you deal on a new frame under their crash replacement scheme

The frame may be sent back to Cube who will asses the frame if pics of the damage aren't sufficient to asses it fully and decide if it's warranty or accidental damage that has caused the problem

Generally Cube only take a couple of weeks to get a frame replaced under warranty or crash replacement, if they have that size and colour in stock. If not it may take longer if you want the same colour and size

I've had the bike from new,and it's not been crashed that's for sure the frame doesn't have a mark on it except from shoe rub and chain slap. . I bought a £500 Trek 4300 for my girlfriend at the same time which has done exactly the same rides as the more expensive cube and that's fine.

Eranu

2 weeks is pretty good I'd have thought. Cube are good with warranty though, had my Reaction frame replaced no probelm when it developed a crack. Bike shop rebuilt it all etc too.

bennett_346

I blame wiggle

supersonic

Have you ever taken the back wheel out, or checked the quick release skewer?

GSP1984

supersonic wrote:

Have you ever taken the back wheel out, or checked the quick release skewer?

Yep. and although I'm no expert I think pines cycle shop would have spotted a skewer problem.

The wheel sits true and in the middle on the 3 other parts of the rear where it is close to the frame, it's just the one corner of the frame that it sits a few mm from.

stubs

Dont cancel your cannock weekend see if JEJames will rent you something to ride I am sure they will have some demo bikes they can let you try. If I ran a shop I would be lending you something tasty n the hope you come back with your credit card in your hand.

Northwind

2 weeks is actually pretty good for the bike industry- for some reason punters accept terrible warranty times as just par for the course. If my fridge broke, I wouldn't expect to have to go and buy another fridge so that I'm not left without one for months while the shop and manufacturer dick around...

Hope it gets sorted easily and quickly for you.

GSP1984

Northwind wrote:

2 weeks is actually pretty good for the bike industry- for some reason punters accept terrible warranty times as just par for the course. If my fridge broke, I wouldn't expect to have to go and buy another fridge so that I'm not left without one for months while the shop and manufacturer dick around...

Hope it gets sorted easily and quickly for you.

Funny you should mention that... this is my fridge freezer currently waiting for a warranty replacement...



I'm not having a good month

supersonic

It seems on the face of it that a part of the swingarm may be faulty. The reason I asked about the wheel and skewer is that they will probably ask you same ie did you make sure the wheel sat in the dropouts, and the tension was properly adjusted. Just say yes!

As many have mentioned, they will probably fit a new swingarm, and check the wheel over.

Andy B

By the way the Acid is a hardtail, so it'd be a new frame not a swingarm as some have mentioned

diy

The terms of the Warranty are completely irrelevant. You are entirely served by your statutory rights. If you want a bike now, ask for replacement or get a refund and buy one, if you want a repair allow them to repair. This is your statutory right. It cannot be waived by the terms of the warranty. They cannot tell you what they will do, its for you to say what you want.

I can't really see why you need to get involved in the retailers commercial relationship with its supplier. If this had been 3 months or 6 months the position may have been different, but right now you can reject the item as faulty and walk away.

delcol

my brother had simalar issue with his new knolly deliurium frame he got earlier this year...
The shock was making a squeeking noise so the shop greased all the bolts. all was fine for a few days then squeek came back.. The shop then replace the mounting hardware for the shock... Still it squeeked then one of our guides (jamie) noticed while looking at the bike that the suspension linkage was not inline.

It was well out... then came the hassle with the shop and the manufacturer, the frame was sent off to knolly for inspection and they confirmed it was faulty the frame had a missweld and was out of line..

In the end he got his money back as the manufacturer could not supply a new frame due to big issues with there frame supplier thats another story.. My brother was left with out a bike from may to september it took this long to sort out even though they knolly accepted the frame was faulty they were draging there heels all the way..

They even tried to offer a secondhand used ex demo bike as a warrenty replacement which we totally rejected.
I hope cube and je james are better at dealing with these issues than knolly were. granted the shop we got the bike from was in whistler and we were back home in the uk so it wasn't a case of just popping in..

Even after all that it still took the shop 3 weeks to give him his money back...

supersonic

diy wrote:

The terms of the Warranty are completely irrelevant. You are entirely served by your statutory rights. If you want a bike now, ask for replacement or get a refund and buy one, if you want a repair allow them to repair. This is your statutory right. It cannot be waived by the terms of the warranty. They cannot tell you what they will do, its for you to say what you want.

I can't really see why you need to get involved in the retailers commercial relationship with its supplier. If this had been 3 months or 6 months the position may have been different, but right now you can reject the item as faulty and walk away.

After 6 weeks it might be deemed the buyer had accepted the goods. Of course the retailer has to prove the goods are faulty. This is why it might sent to the manufacturer, Cube, who will be looking at the bike to see if there was a fault, or if the problem was caused by neglect ie a crash.

diy

This is about remedy not rescission. You are right to say that you cannot rescind post acceptance, but you still have the right to reject faulty goods and ask for a replacement or a repair. If that takes an unreasonable amount of time or inconvenience, then you re-open their right to rescind.

Don't forget, so soon after purchase this is primarily about the consumers preferred remedy, not the retailers. Note also that the customer can also claim consequential loss, so its not in the retailers interest to muck about if they ask for refund or replacement.

A savy consumer who was faced with a difficult retailer would claim consequential loss during the repair and a partial refund due to repair. Power is in the hands of the consumer, rightly or wrongly.

Having read the original post again this may even be covered by Distance selling regs.

supersonic

There may be no remedy if the goods are proven not to be faulty (in a reasonable amount of time...)

diy

How would a retailer do that then? You need to expand on your thinking?

supersonic

By sending back to the manufacturer, who knows more about the frame more than anyone else and will determine the cause of the reported problem. Which is exactly what the retailer has done and is entitled to do: they have not accepted at this stage that there is actually a manufacturing fault. In a nutshell:

A) Customer brings back goods with problem
Retailer has not accepted there is a manufacturing fault
C) Retailer must prove there is no manufacturing fault

Of course this needs to be done promptly.

MrChuck

stubs wrote:

If I ran a shop I would be lending you something tasty n the hope you come back with your credit card in your hand.

Just out of interest, what would you do with your now used tasty bike if he didn't buy it, which I'd have thought was pretty likely?

RevellRider

Most places like JE James have a fleet of demo bikes. I know that in the past customers who's warranty replacement that have taken longer than they should of have been given the use of one of these bikes, just so they can ride

diy

supersonic wrote:

..They have not accepted at this stage that there is actually a manufacturing fault. In a nutshell:

Ahh right I see, in this scenario (fault reported <6 months), the goods ARE faulty (by statute). To dispute this, the retailer would have to argue this at the point of return.

Basically the retailers option are:
A inspect the goods there and then and dispute the fault - i.e. you broke it.
B accept they are faulty and offer to send them back to be checked and repaired or some other remedy at the consumers discretion (within their rights of course).

Retailers always try to avoid being stuck between consumer and manufacturer which could leave them exposed, so they tend to try to impose their suppliers terms on the consumer (i.e. warranty and defect process etc)

However the SoGA was designed specifically to prevent this and make it as easy as possible for consumers to get their money back when dealing with faults

stubs

MrChuck wrote:

stubs wrote:

If I ran a shop I would be lending you something tasty n the hope you come back with your credit card in your hand.

Just out of interest, what would you do with your now used tasty bike if he didn't buy it, which I'd have thought was pretty likely?

Isnt that the point of a Demo bike it gets used in the hope the punter will buy a similar bike. I know a lot of bike shops get pissy if you even sit on a bike in the shop but if I was running any business I would imagine a test ride would seal a deal.

GSP1984

They called me today and they can't get the wheel to sit right, they think the problem is with the bits the skewer connects to on the frame, they have taken photos and are going to send them to Cube for comment.

They have also said I should come get it and take it away and that I could ride if it I was desperate.

Not sure what to do I'm tempted to call them up tomorrow andsay I'm not happy taking it away and riding it in it's current state as its not fit for purpose, arguably dangerous and could eventually weaken the frame, and if it's not resolvable quickly I want my money back.

Would I be within my rights to say that?

supersonic

They should not be telling you to ride it when it is not fit to do so.

It seems the problem is possibly the dropout. But as yet they have not accepted the frame is faulty, so Cube will examine the details. They may need the frame back, but all this should be completed in reasonable time.

If the frame is faulty, you are entitled to a repair or a replacement. If this is not done in a reasonable time you can be compensated, or you can return the goods and have a partial refund.

Unfortunately 'reasonable time' is a grey area.

DickBarton

My mate has a Cube Fritzz...the rear end was giving him no end of problems...turns out the frame alignment was out...after about 4 months of to'ing and fro'ing with CRC and Cube, Cube sent a whole new back end out and it was replaced...problem solved (but it took several days worth of phone calls and effort to get them to do this. Bike was returned twice to CRC...both times, the fault was spotted but wasn't fixed with the measures they tried.

Since then, I've heard of a couple more incidents like this with Cubes (literally just 2)...and both been resolved, but they have all been on the full sus bikes...

Hopefully it will diagnosed as a frame alignment issue and it will get sorted (sounds like the frame alignment is out, either frame or drop-out, to me).

diy

Was this issue raised at the 1 month check - its not clear from what you say? This is very important. If it was, then you can reject the bike and ask for refund. In consumer law you do not lose your right to reject because you gave the retailer the opportunity to fix. So in this case you effectively preserved your right to reject the item at the time you raised your concern. That may have been 2 or 3 weeks not 6. Furthermore you can argue that they have already had the opportunity to fix twice and failed, so you do now have the right to a refund.

Supper is 100% correct you should not ride a bike with such a fault, if the wheel wont sit right, then 1 its going to wear even more of the frame out and 2 it could possibly work loose and eject during a ride. I certainly would not collect the bike, its of no use to you while its faulty.

you have two options:

A fault raised at one month check..

dear ... thank you calling me yesterday to brief me on the problem with the bike I purchased from you on dd-mm-yy. As you are aware I raised this concern with you on dd-mm-yy shortly after purchasing the bike and asked you to investigate the fault at the one month check up. It is clear now, why you were unable to correct the fault at that time. Since you have not been able to correct the problem at the one month checkup and subsequently today due to the manufacturing defect, I will be exercising my statutory rights to reject the goods and ask for a refund.

B you can't honestly say you made them aware of the problem straight away...

dear ... thank you calling me yesterday to brief me on the problem with the bike I purchased from you on dd-mm-yy. Its not clear how you intend to fix this problem, its also not clear why this was not spotted at the PDI check and subsequent one-month checkup. However, its clear now that the bike is defective, therefore I would like you to either provide me with a replacement bike or to provide me with a loan bike while you work with the manufacture to fix the problem. If you are unable to do this, then I will be expecting a refund.

good luck

lhoward1976

Wot DIY and SS said.

Although... why the difference in options depending on when/if the fault was reported?

Does whether or not it was mentioned at the 1-month check matter? If the bike shop didn't spot it at the 1-month check then is there any reason to expect the owner to have spotted it? The fault may not have been apparent when the check was performed or when riding prior to the check.

That's not the same as saying there was no manufacturing fault - just that the failure/fault hadn't manifested at that point in time. If it's the dropout/skewer/whatever that's at fault, it may have failed/bent/whatever after the 1-month check, after which point the damage has arisen.

It might complicate the argument over whether it is faulty or has been "broken" - but doesn't change the remedies available to the owner if it is faulty: i.e. a refund, replacement or repair at the owner's discretion...