Another Killer let off

tailwindhome

OptimisticBiker wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Killing someone and being 'a killer' are not necessarily the same.

At least not in the eyes of normal rational people.....



There are also a wide spectrum of reasons which would render a driver to be driving illegally, they cannot be lumped together however shouty your agenda is.



The drivers behaviour the road, her legal status as a driver and the reason for her legal status are 3 different factors and should be judged seperately. That said, her legal status may (depending on the reason for it) be a factor in sentencing for her actions.......

That said, the fact she knowingly broke the law shows a certain disregard for it and, arguably, indicates an attiitude that might translate to lack of care for others - and that might have been a contributing factor to the accident.

Certainly my (fortunately limited) experience of drivers that dont insure/tax their vehicles is an attitude that says 'I don't care'...

I drove illegally for a couple of years.

My license had gone out of date after 10 years, and as it was lying in drawer (I never had any cause to show it to anyone and it never required endorsement) I regarded it a bit of paperwork that I'd get round to.

Would it have been a factor if I had been in an accident?...not really

Is it the same as having no license due to being banned or never having sat a test?.... off course not.


Technically having no license is as I understand an absolute offence, I now have a caution to prove it, but you need to look at these situations with a bit of common sense. Not try to fit them into your own agenda.

mybreakfastconsisted

OptimisticBiker wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Killing someone and being 'a killer' are not necessarily the same.

At least not in the eyes of normal rational people.....



There are also a wide spectrum of reasons which would render a driver to be driving illegally, they cannot be lumped together however shouty your agenda is.



The drivers behaviour the road, her legal status as a driver and the reason for her legal status are 3 different factors and should be judged seperately. That said, her legal status may (depending on the reason for it) be a factor in sentencing for her actions.......

That said, the fact she knowingly broke the law shows a certain disregard for it and, arguably, indicates an attiitude that might translate to lack of care for others - and that might have been a contributing factor to the accident.

Certainly my (fortunately limited) experience of drivers that dont insure/tax their vehicles is an attitude that says 'I don't care'...

Exactly, and naturally uninsured drivers are involved in a large number of hit-and-runs. Why would they stop? They have nothing to lose, the fine can be less than the premium if they're caught. These are the drivers that cost the rest of us £400m a year. I doubt this driver has private wealth so the grieving family will claim from the MIB, and I doubt the settlement will be cheap for such a high earner as the dead man.

Wallace1492

TailWindHome wrote:

Wallace1492 wrote:

AndyManc wrote:

Mr Plum wrote:

So are people pissed off that she killed someone, or that she was driving without a license or insurance? :?

IMHO the two should be treated separately - the fact she was driving without a license or insurance was not a contributory factor in killing the cyclist. Unless I've missed something...?

So, the fact that she intentionally drove a vehicle illegally bares no connection that she ended up killing someone.

If she had complied with the law she wouldn't have been on the road.

2. Agreed. If she complied with law she would not be on the road, and incident would not have happened.

Not to be overly pedantic but if she complied with the law she would still be on the road but with a full license instead of provisional and her insurance would have been valid

To be overly padantic, you are wrong. If she complied with the law, she would not have driven as she did not have full license. However, she could have got her license easily enough by sending off for it, though she did not legally need to do this unless she wanted to drive. On the day to comply with the law she should not have driven.

Wallace1492

mybreakfastconsisted wrote:

From what we know we have an exceptionally intelligent person on a bike carrying out a straightforward lane change that would pose no problem to a competent driver. We know drivers in cyclist RTCs are usually at fault far more often than the cyclist, and we know the driver took a relaxed view with regard to the legal requirements of taking a car on the roads. We know uninsured drivers are involved in a disproportionate number of RTCs. It seems likely to me that the driver was at fault.

Speculation on who was at fault. Luckily courts need more proof than that.

greg66_tri_v2.0

TailWindHome wrote:

I drove illegally for a couple of years.

That sound?

That's the sound of silence. The pianist has stopped playing, and he's looking nervy.

People who you thought you could rely on are slowly edging away from you trying not to draw attention to themselves, and not make any sudden movement.

You've just admitted you're a killer in this saloon bar, my former friend. I hope for your sake you're quick on the draw...

dhope

Greg66 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

I drove illegally for a couple of years.

That sound?

That's the sound of silence. The pianist has stopped playing, and he's looking nervy.

People who you thought you could rely on are slowly edging away from you trying not to draw attention to themselves, and not make any sudden movement.

You've just admitted you're a killer in this saloon bar, my former friend. I hope for your sake you're quick on the draw...

Ah balls, I just checked mine and it's out by 7 months.
I've driven maybe half a dozen times times this year :oops:

greg66_tri_v2.0

dhope wrote:

Greg66 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

I drove illegally for a couple of years.

That sound?

That's the sound of silence. The pianist has stopped playing, and he's looking nervy.

People who you thought you could rely on are slowly edging away from you trying not to draw attention to themselves, and not make any sudden movement.

You've just admitted you're a killer in this saloon bar, my former friend. I hope for your sake you're quick on the draw...

Ah balls, I just checked mine and it's out by 7 months.
I've driven maybe half a dozen times times this year :oops:

Half a dozen opportunities to kill people. In cold blood.

That sound?

That's the sound of etc...




I had understood tha the DVLA are supposed to send you a notice that your licence is about to expire. Do they?

optimisticbiker

tbh its not an issue to me if you have a licence and forgot to renew... as long as you had one once... whether or not you renewed it is just red tape, renewal has no more relevance to driving skill than renewal of, say, a passport or a TV licence. A legality yes, but a mere technicality and not having one thats up to date doesn't make you a killer any more than having one makes you a safe driver..

More concerning is the tax and/or insurance issue... those are annual events, everyone knows you need to have them to be legally on the road and failure to do so IMHO shows an attitude issue.... esp the insurance as it says 'I don't care what happens to others, its not my problem'.

Nik Cube

I believe that there is a time limit on applying for licence after your test and as such her having passed a test once upon a time is somthing of a red herring.

In response to Gregg I believe that the Dvla do send out reminders howevet plenty of half wits move and dont update their address _ which is a leagle requirement and can cost you £1000 for not doing so.

With regard to punishment obviously we need to bring back the stocks and the death penalty nothing like the public execution of an innocent person to set society straight but much better when they are gulilty - I am so glad that our leagle system has never been wrong and retirbution is poured out from on high upon all wrong doers :shock:

greg66_tri_v2.0

OptimisticBiker wrote:

More concerning is the tax and/or insurance issue... those are annual events, everyone knows you need to have them to be legally on the road and failure to do so IMHO shows an attitude issue.... esp the insurance as it says 'I don't care what happens to others, its not my problem'.

Not sure about the insurance. The MIB picks up a hefty chunk of the tab for damage caused to third parties by uninsured drivers. The uninsured driver really says "I don't care about me and my car (and possibly those in my car with me".

But I take the point that the common or garden feckless chav who resorts to this sort of financial outgoing evasion may not think things through that far.

How you can drive around these days without a valid tax disc and not get pinged by council johnnie, a camera or a policeman is a bit beyond me.

Nik Cube

I get more and more concerned over the lack of an MOT as this often translates into a death trap on 4 wheels

dhope

Greg66 wrote:

dhope wrote:

Greg66 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

I drove illegally for a couple of years.

That sound?

That's the sound of silence. The pianist has stopped playing, and he's looking nervy.

People who you thought you could rely on are slowly edging away from you trying not to draw attention to themselves, and not make any sudden movement.

You've just admitted you're a killer in this saloon bar, my former friend. I hope for your sake you're quick on the draw...

Ah balls, I just checked mine and it's out by 7 months.
I've driven maybe half a dozen times times this year :oops:

Half a dozen opportunities to kill people. In cold blood.

That sound?

That's the sound of etc...




I had understood tha the DVLA are supposed to send you a notice that your licence is about to expire. Do they?

Would seem it's also for an old address :oops: :oops:
Every day I live at the wrong address is an opportunity to kill someone in cold blood.

Hm, what's that sound?

I should probably get the license thing sorted.

greg66_tri_v2.0

Nik Cube wrote:

I get more and more concerned over the lack of an MOT as this often translates into a death trap on 4 wheels

Not really, in that an MOT proves only that on the day of the certificate a car was sufficiently roadworthy to get through it's MOT. Plenty of cars have an MOT and are not roadworthy; those that fail their MOT the next year being the obvious examples. Plenty fail an MOT without being death traps.

Nik Cube

yeah that is true but as someone who owns an mot station (and is a mot tester) I find that cars that have been tested and regularly serviced are in much better shape. Some of the stuff I have seen is really quite scary

veronese68

Nik Cube wrote:

yeah that is true but as someone who owns an mot station (and is a mot tester) I find that cars that have been tested and regularly serviced are in much better shape. Some of the stuff I have seen is really quite scary

Do you do mail order?

mybreakfastconsisted

dhope wrote:

Greg66 wrote:

dhope wrote:

Greg66 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

I drove illegally for a couple of years.

That sound?

That's the sound of silence. The pianist has stopped playing, and he's looking nervy.

People who you thought you could rely on are slowly edging away from you trying not to draw attention to themselves, and not make any sudden movement.

You've just admitted you're a killer in this saloon bar, my former friend. I hope for your sake you're quick on the draw...

Ah balls, I just checked mine and it's out by 7 months.
I've driven maybe half a dozen times times this year :oops:

Half a dozen opportunities to kill people. In cold blood.

That sound?

That's the sound of etc...




I had understood tha the DVLA are supposed to send you a notice that your licence is about to expire. Do they?

Would seem it's also for an old address :oops: :oops:
Every day I live at the wrong address is an opportunity to kill someone in cold blood.

Hm, what's that sound?

I should probably get the license thing sorted.

This thread needs more hilarious jokes about killing people.

Nik Cube

Veronese68 wrote:

Nik Cube wrote:

yeah that is true but as someone who owns an mot station (and is a mot tester) I find that cars that have been tested and regularly serviced are in much better shape. Some of the stuff I have seen is really quite scary

Do you do mail order?

P

greg66_tri_v2.0

mybreakfastconsisted wrote:

dhope wrote:

Greg66 wrote:

dhope wrote:

Greg66 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

I drove illegally for a couple of years.

That sound?

That's the sound of silence. The pianist has stopped playing, and he's looking nervy.

People who you thought you could rely on are slowly edging away from you trying not to draw attention to themselves, and not make any sudden movement.

You've just admitted you're a killer in this saloon bar, my former friend. I hope for your sake you're quick on the draw...

Ah balls, I just checked mine and it's out by 7 months.
I've driven maybe half a dozen times times this year :oops:

Half a dozen opportunities to kill people. In cold blood.

That sound?

That's the sound of etc...




I had understood tha the DVLA are supposed to send you a notice that your licence is about to expire. Do they?

Would seem it's also for an old address :oops: :oops:
Every day I live at the wrong address is an opportunity to kill someone in cold blood.

Hm, what's that sound?

I should probably get the license thing sorted.

This thread needs more hilarious jokes about killing people.

Really? Ok, well we've done driving with a revoked licence, and fraudulently obtaining an MOT as badges of the automotive massacrer, what shall we do next?

What will tickle your humerus, Nutellaontoastedwholegrain?

61Sigs

Not sure about the insurance. The MIB picks up a hefty chunk of the tab for damage caused to third parties by uninsured drivers. ".

Not much they don't. The ex-wife and I were hit by a 17 year old uninsured, unlicenced driver who came close to killing the pair of us. Wife was battered, bruised, had minor burns and was traumatised (the driver that hit us died) My sturnum and all my ribs were broken and couldn't work fo 3 months. I recieved .............................£1,200:00. Oh how we all laughed!

Icing on the cake was wife lost her no claims bonus!

Err I'm not sure this adds anything to the debate. I just fancied a rant :?

estampida

disabled drives......

are they really or do they need to mtfu :roll:

that should get it started again

tailwindhome

61Sigs wrote:

Oh how we all laughed!

No one on this thread or forum thinks that your incident or the incident in the OP are funny,

Some however have difficulty understanding that the world isn't black and white, good and evil, cyclists and drivers.

We sometimes poke at them because they are clearly bonkers.

61Sigs

The 'Oh how we all laughed' was our sarcastic reaction to the compensation that we'd received not anyone on this board.

I didn't suggest it was black and white, I was only commenting on the MIB picking up the tab.

ooermissus

As well as killing someone while uninsured/no license, she would have needed one or more of the following aggravating factors to be guaranteed a prison sentence: (i) previous convictions for motoring offences; (ii) more than one person killed or injured; (iii) failing to stop or pretending someone else had been driving.

The Rookie

Mr Plum wrote:

The fact she had no license would invalidate any insurance.

Not true, the third party liablility (all that is required by law) would still have been valid.

I always thought we had a policy in this country of punishing people for the acts they commit and not the coincidental results, how many times when driving or riding do you think 'that was a bit close' should every driver in those circumstances be hung drawn and quartered as they would nearly all class as without due care and attention (a criminal offence) likewise doing 31 in a 30.......


Simon

Wallace1492

The Beginner wrote:

Mr Plum wrote:

The fact she had no license would invalidate any insurance.

Not true, the third party liablility (all that is required by law) would still have been valid.

I always thought we had a policy in this country of punishing people for the acts they commit and not the coincidental results, how many times when driving or riding do you think 'that was a bit close' should every driver in those circumstances be hung drawn and quartered as they would nearly all class as without due care and attention (a criminal offence) likewise doing 31 in a 30.......


Simon

I was under the impression that having no license would invalidate any insurance. You are driving illegally, so insurance would not pay out.

None the less, in this case she was not insured for the car, so license issue is irrelevent.

And punishing for the act rather than the coincidental result, is that not peculiar to motoring offenses? I thought company executives could get involuntary manslaughter for H&S breaches.

tailwindhome

^

Depends on your policy.

I think it's up to the insurer to decide wether or not your are insured, I don't think it is for 'the law' to decide.

In my case the insurer eventually agreed that I was covered at the time I was cautioned on the condition that I forwarded a copy of my renewed license within 14 days.

Had I been driving while disqualified there is no way they would have agreed to insure me.....

mybreakfastconsisted

ooermissus wrote:

As well as killing someone while uninsured/no license, she would have needed one or more of the following aggravating factors to be guaranteed a prison sentence: (i) previous convictions for motoring offences; (ii) more than one person killed or injured; (iii) failing to stop or pretending someone else had been driving.

Looks like it, Dangerous driving, failing to stop after an accident, failing to report an accident and driving without insurance, cyclist left with, horrible phrase "life-changing leg injuries"--8 months prison and a 3 year ban:

http://mobile.leighjournal.co.uk/news/9 ... nd_banned/

ooermissus

mybreakfastconsisted wrote:

ooermissus wrote:

As well as killing someone while uninsured/no license, she would have needed one or more of the following aggravating factors to be guaranteed a prison sentence: (i) previous convictions for motoring offences; (ii) more than one person killed or injured; (iii) failing to stop or pretending someone else had been driving.

Looks like it, Dangerous driving, failing to stop after an accident, failing to report an accident and driving without insurance, cyclist left with, horrible phrase "life-changing leg injuries"--8 months prison and a 3 year ban:

http://mobile.leighjournal.co.uk/news/9 ... nd_banned/

yeah though there's no need to prove that someone was driving dangerously at the time to send them to prison for causing death while no insurance/license/disqualified. they just need to have killed or injured a second person, failed to stop, had previous convictions etc. Then it's a sentence of up to 2 years.

Death by dangerous driving is up to 14 years for a bad offence with lots of aggravating factors.
Then the sentence is up to the 2 years.