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Road rage with a twist...

porker33porker33 Posts: 636
edited October 2011 in The bottom bracket
The twist being, the police seem fine with it if you are driving someone else's car!

Yesterday afternoon I was out for a 45 mile ride, wearing bright colours and my flashing lights on front and rear.

I was about 5 miles from home having done my work in terms of hills, I am riding along a larger country road (without pathways) and I notice a blue Ford Ka to my left waiting to turn right. I do my usual procedure of trying to look the driver in the eye, so that they may notice me,,,,the car is there for 10-15 seconds, then as I get close it pulls out in front of me to do the right turn....I swerve to avoid the car and once stable look back and wave my arm in the air. I din't even say anything, at which point the Ka was 100 yards down the road anyway.

I continue on my way at 20mph or so,,,,1/2 a mile later on the bend the Ford Ka has come after me...the male driver, screeches the car into the side of the road blocking me and winds the window down and screams, how he is going to kill me and get out and ram the bike down my throat etc...
We are in the South London suburbs, I am used to vans passing very closely, I could find this behaviour every day if i went looking for it.
I told the guy I am not interested and to move his car so I may proceed....he then reverses back and then revving, inches the front of the car toward me so that I am stumbling on Look Keo cleats back off of the verge and pushing myself into the hedge with my bike in front of me as the Ka is an inch or so away.

Now this is getting silly, so I suggest OK then get out of the car....he reverses back, drives off, telling me what will happen next time.etc,,,,

I was disappointed with this, but it was after talking to a friend an hour later about my ride in the hills and then this incident, they suggest I tell the police.

I don't get involved with the police and had little confidence in them before this incident.
As there are no longer local stations, the procedure for a non emergency is to phone, log the incident and then go a major station to confirm once you have a "CAD" number.....

I asked the police officer on the phone of this was worth reporting?
I don't care about the "kill me" part, but surely coming after someone and then purposely driving at them so they have to cower into a hedge is not right?

Officer is sympathetic, agrees, logs incident and tells me I now have to go to the station.

I arrive at the station and to my surprise I am the only one there and go straight to the desk. I explain the incident and the officer tells me that other than a few scratches from the hedge he didn't actually harm me and that the car is registered to a female owner. They would have to contact the owner and she would just say she didn't know who was driving and it would all be a waste of time.

I politely apologised to the officer for any of their time I had wasted and went home.

My expectation was no more than they might call in at the house of the owner of the car and say they had heard the car had been driven aggressively, this may or may not make the owner re-consider their behaviour behind the wheel?

So, if you are going to report road rage, make sure the person hurts you badly and it is probably worth asking if it is their car they are driving before you waste any time going to the station to report it.

Posts

  • Geeze......... People can just do what the he'll they like ..... Aaaargh
  • porker33porker33 Posts: 636
    This is society today...It would appear!

    For the last couple of years I have cycled approx 6k road miles a year and have had the occasional word from drivers as I am sure we all do when they feel brave in their van or Range Rover and don't like my lycra!

    For all of us cycling on the road, consider a van or company vehicle, even if you get a description of the driver, I am now under the impression that they could just say they didn't know who was driving at the time and that would be the end of it......

    I am only posting this in that it may help others, prior to yesterday none of the above even occurred to me!
  • The 'argument' with the motorist is pointless. Been there done that. When it happened to me the motorist actually stopped infront of me so aggressively I ran into the back of him and was on the floor clipped in. Brave man got out of his car to have words. He mentioned my arrogance just as I shoved him into the middle of the road to get run over by the heavy 5pm traffic. Luckily my plan failed. I told him that my arrogance knew no bounds and would he like to go away. He did.

    Even this isn't a victory. I felt that I was right and he felt that he was right.

    I try not to cycle on roads, I don't own a car but I do ride a motorbike - don't get me started on muppet motorists. I am especially considerate towards vulnerable road users such as cyclists and horse riders.

    I can even fall out with motorists whilst crossing the road, IE yesterday. Thinking about it, I could well be the muppet, expecting motorists to know the highway code.
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  • golfergmcgolfergmc Posts: 426
    porker33 wrote:
    This is society today...It would appear!

    For the last couple of years I have cycled approx 6k road miles a year and have had the occasional word from drivers as I am sure we all do when they feel brave in their van or Range Rover and don't like my lycra!

    For all of us cycling on the road, consider a van or company vehicle, even if you get a description of the driver, I am now under the impression that they could just say they didn't know who was driving at the time and that would be the end of it......

    I am only posting this in that it may help others, prior to yesterday none of the above even occurred to me!
    A lot of large companies now use a tracker system that requires the driver to use a key fob to identify themselves when driving the vehicle.
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  • tlw1tlw1 Posts: 21,110
    My mate recently had a similar incident & for once the Police took it seriously & have arrested the bloke.

    Will post more details if anything comes of it.
  • This is why I like being 6 foot 5 and reasonably well built...
  • Ride hardRide hard Posts: 389
    Sorry to hear about that porker33, but I have to say I admire your zen attitude both during and after the incident. I don't think I could have remained as composed though, but as said above, what's the worth getting involved (note to self).

    It doesn't inspire me with confidence though when you've encountered serious threatening behaviour way beyond the incident that led to it (one which cyclists have to deal with daily) and the police have such a blase attitude. Mr Angry car driver is going to keep on keeping on until someone - ie the law - says he can't.

    I would love to know what police on BR think of incidents like this and if it was dealt with appropiately, because you know if someone had threatened you like that in a pub then the attitude may have been different.
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  • Pretty shocked you even considered diverting scarce, and shrinking, police resources from priority crimes like pavement riding.
  • Slow DowncpSlow Downcp Posts: 3,041
    I take the "fight fire with fire approach" - if someone says they want to kill me, I just go into phsychopathic killer mode (think Michael Douglas in Falling Down) - people normally back down if they think you're a bigger nutter than them. If they seriously want to do you harm, they will regardless so nothing to lose.
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  • napoleondnapoleond Posts: 5,990
    That's rubbish from the cops. Sounds like you were unlucky with a lazy one. There's lazy people in all jobs. Unfortunately lazy police employees affect people more than most.
    I'd speak to the station inspector and make waves about making a complaint and get it reported. Section 4 of the public order act would cover it. Also driving w/o due care and attn. The owner is obliged under the road traffic act to say who was driving the vehicle.
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  • BigLee1BigLee1 Posts: 449
    I`ve been lucky but I`m sure popping out your mobile fone and getting them on video would make them think twice but how many people would have the frame of mind to do that in an aggressive situation?
  • Slow DowncpSlow Downcp Posts: 3,041
    NapoleonD wrote:
    That's rubbish from the cops. Sounds like you were unlucky with a lazy one. There's lazy people in all jobs. Unfortunately lazy police employees affect people more than most.
    I'd speak to the station inspector and make waves about making a complaint and get it reported. Section 4 of the public order act would cover it. Also driving w/o due care and attn. The owner is obliged under the road traffic act to say who was driving the vehicle.

    Welcome Back NapD :D
    Carlsberg don't make cycle clothing, but if they did it would probably still not be as good as Assos
  • this is why I am getting as helmet cam
  • cookdncookdn Posts: 410
    NapoleonD wrote:
    That's rubbish from the cops. Sounds like you were unlucky with a lazy one. There's lazy people in all jobs. Unfortunately lazy police employees affect people more than most.
    I'd speak to the station inspector and make waves about making a complaint and get it reported. Section 4 of the public order act would cover it. Also driving w/o due care and attn. The owner is obliged under the road traffic act to say who was driving the vehicle.

    +1

    I had a similar incident when commuting on my bike in Sheffield, the driver ended up in the Magistrates court to be awarded a fine, compensation for me and community service. I suspect if you have difficulty once an investigation is under-way it will be down to lack of independent witnesses, however what is unlikely to be in doubt is the premeditated behaviour of the chap in the car.

    Good luck.
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  • -spider--spider- Posts: 2,548
    Good to see you again Nap D - How's things?

    -Spider-
  • napoleondnapoleond Posts: 5,990
    Grand ta!
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  • rc856rc856 Posts: 1,144
    That's pish.
    As Nap says, S172 of the Road Traffic Act requires the owner to say who was driving at the time of the incident.
    Depending on the incident, some people know or willing to accept this charge rather than something else.
    If the female owner said it was her husband/boyfriend/brother etc, he would still have to admit anything had happened in the absence of independent witnesses.
    Even if I was thinking this as I was talking to you, I wouldn't say it was a waste of time.
    This kind of thing puts all cops in a bad light with some.
    Wouldn't get away with it in Glasgow once the call is logged.

    At least you're ok.
  • I'm in the same boat as lycraholic, a strong Glasgow accent also works wonders in the south east of England!

    Hope you manage to get the copper to do something in the end.
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  • just a quick question do the police have to release a drivers name to the family of an injured cyclist or are there legal reasons why they don't.
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  • zaneszanes Posts: 563
    ooermissus wrote:
    Pretty shocked you even considered diverting scarce, and shrinking, police resources from priority crimes like pavement riding.

    +1. That and taking photographs in a public place.
  • fossyantfossyant Posts: 2,549
    I had some tool drive his car at me on the commute, even chased me in traffic - anyway reported it on getting back home, phoned next day and went to Longsite station. Interviewed by an officer - he cycled to work, and advised that I should report it, rather than add as 'intelligence'. Did all that, ploice went to see the driver, he was on the road at the time. No CCTV unfortunately, but because I'd put my hand up (as in what, no fingers, as he revved a Golf V5 inches off my censored (a fast one) I was being aggressive (Erm.. 100 kg's of rider, bike and panniers combined to over 1500kg of car ?) - My word vs his. That said, the officer said it's been added to the list of reports for this driver. i.e. intelligence. His days will be up soon.

    Just report - make sure it get's on the long list some drivers rack up.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 65,364 Lives Here
    NapD.

    Is there a standard thing you should do when a) this happens and b) when/if you go to the police?
  • cookdncookdn Posts: 410
    just a quick question do the police have to release a drivers name to the family of an injured cyclist or are there legal reasons why they don't.
    I suppose there could be situations where there is some uncertainty about the identity of the driver at the time of the incident. However that does not prevent them from releasing details of the registered keeper so you can pursue a claim against their insurance if there has been a loss or injury involving a collision with their vehicle.

    Best regards
    Boardman CX Team
  • rc856rc856 Posts: 1,144
    just a quick question do the police have to release a drivers name to the family of an injured cyclist or are there legal reasons why they don't.

    As in after a crash etc?
    Details would be filled in on a road crash report which the insurance companies can then get a copy of. That prevents aggrieved parties going looking for their own justice etc.
  • napoleondnapoleond Posts: 5,990
    NapD.

    Is there a standard thing you should do when a) this happens and b) when/if you go to the police?

    1. Keep calm. Try and take in as much info as possible. If you have a phone/helmet cam to hand all the better.
    2. Highly unlikely but try and identify any witnesses willing to assist.
    3. Report to police at earliest opportunity. Preferably from the scene (I'm too shaken to carry on at the moment officer...)
    4. If you get an apathetic response from the police, make a complaint.
    5. If all else fails, erm, can't say that one in public...
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  • markos1963markos1963 Posts: 3,724
    I have given up reporting bad drivers/situations. Due to an experience many years ago whilst riding my motorbike. I almost came off on a main road due to an abundance of mud that had been scattered by a farmer right outside his farm. I went to my local station and reported it, was told they'd look into it and get back to me, they didn't and the road got even worse so I went back and was told the same. I mentioned it to a mate who was more local than me, he told me I was on to a hiding to nothing as the farmer was the brother of the desk sergeant at the station I had reported to. TBH it's not worth the grief and hassle, I just ride down even quieter roads or just ignore the bad driving, enough muppets out there on all forms of transport without joining the road rage crew.
  • Mad Roadie wrote:
    this is why I am getting as helmet cam
    Yes, I think I need one (or two) of these. Near death occurrences are all too common.
  • NWLondonerNWLondoner Posts: 2,047
    While there may be good cops like Napd the sad fact is that most if us will only come into contact with the Police a handful of times and it does seem that most of the time you have a bad experience.

    All my dealings with the Met have left me unimpressed and wondering why the heck i pay a fortune in council tax to the Met!!!
  • porker33porker33 Posts: 636
    Guys thanks for your kind responses and sharing your own experiences.

    I will not proceed any further with the police. They have my name and address and i wouldn't feel comfortable about making any form of complaint. I had little faith in them before.

    I have reported the incident and given them a description of the car and driver.
    Hopefully they have the registration number written down on the back of an old envelope somewhere and it might ring a bell if the driver mows down or kills someone safe in the knowledge that the police are not interested in his actions.
  • napoleondnapoleond Posts: 5,990
    That's sad to hear :(
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