What's the point of bright headlights

bikeboon

If the commuting path is well-lit and cyclists tend to be overtaken by cars more often than the other way round (although I ride fast and filter through the standing traffic using the narrow handlebars ).

I think a decent set of rear lights is therefore much more important than the headlights, no? The only situation I could think of is an oncoming car turning right into the path of the cyclist - that does not happen often though. Pedestrians never look anyway...

Thoughts?

rolf_f

Errrrrr, I'm far more worried about people in front than behind. At least behind they are catching up relatively slowly rather than pulling out without looking properly. A Smart 1/2 or 1 watt at the back for a tenner is perfectly fine for normal dark streets but I want something as distinctive as possible up front.

Still, if you like sailing gracefully over the bonnets of cars.........

Scrappaman

Same for me - I have a very powerful light and I wear bright green. People still pull out right in front of me. People are idiots.

harveyg77

Agree for road use.

I have a Cateye 10-LED thing (6 rear, two either side) on my seat post set to on or flash, coupled with an Electron single LED front light on the bars by the stem. This I consider to be my minimum cover for times when i get 'caught out'.

When I know I will need lights durign the day time, or due to rain, I install a econd Cateye 10-LED on my Camelback in flash mode, along with a pair of white Electron single LEDs set to flash, one on each of on the tips of my drop bars pointing horizontally sideways.

If I am commuting to work early in the morning/late at night, in severe weather or goign througha park with rough ground, tramps and animals I tend to fix my Hope HID on the from bars to provide some decent visibility for me.
NOTE these type of powerful lights are great for letting you see, but not so good at making you be seen. Also they can dazzle motorists if youre not careful!

I am looking at using a brighter LED type front lamp to make me visible (as opposed to provide me vision) to replace the Electron single LED unit I currently use. In addition I sometimes fix a pair of red Electron single LED lights on my seat stays pointing sideways. My logic is that on either side I have a white side light at the front, a red side light at the rear and then the twin reds in the centre (from the Cateye).

Over the top maybe in some folks eyes, but my logic is if someone hits me its manslaughter as theyc annot fail to see me and thus it must be intentional to hit me ;-)

Hope this helps,
Harvey

Long_Time_Lurker

My commute is 25% road, 25% cyclepath and 50% woodland trail, so I need to be able to see where I'm going.
(and it's a bit spooky - I want to light everything up - already killed a rabbit, don't want anything bigger to run out in front of me!)

I have a MaxxD for the trails, then turn it down to minimum beam for the road, and a cheap 'flasher'.

pdw

The important thing for me is standing out against any headlights that might be behind me.

I can remember being thoroughly surprised by a cyclist who was someway ahead of a bus and had a pretty weak front light. With a bit of rain, even on a lit urban street they were all but invisible in front of the bus's lights.

Much of my commute is on completely unlit roads, so I have decent lights to see by, but I've always used bright lights to be seen by, because I think you need something that's comparable in brightness to the rest of the traffic.

tomb353

would agree that there is more danger from cars in front than behind, partioularly at junctions. My justification for entering the front light arms race is the two dual carriageway roundabouts I go through on my commute.

tc345

I'll add that a decent front light is useful on lit roads for visibility but also means that you can take unlit roads if need be and continue doing longer rides in the winter. Of course if there is a high and low setting then it is ideal.

butcher of bakersfield

I fear cars from behind more than I do from in front. That's because I can see the ones in front and I can make a judgement. That and around where I live I often get cars passing very closely at 70mph+.... and no, I don't ride on the motorway.

When you learn to drive though, and when you're driving on a daily basis, your eye just isn't trained to see bikes. A car, you brain will register right away. A bike will generally take longer. And a sparsely lit bike might not even be seen at all.

I drive a 2 ton estate car. It's bright red, and massive! People have apparently failed to see me approaching in that......so you can never be too careful.

Anyone waiting at a junction I watch like a hawk.

shouldbeinbed

A few generalisations there, why do you think it needs to be a competition front v back, just put decent lights at both ends. You never know if you may have to detour and how well lit it may be, you've made yourself invisible in front of other vehicles, cars can't judge your distance as easily, decent front lights do tend to put a few manners onto those drivers who edge over give way lines and there's enough people walking in high viz gear to potentially be confusing if you're relying on clothes for front visibility.

Don't be daft

bikeboon

butcher of bakersfield wrote:

I fear cars from behind more than I do from in front. That's because I can see the ones in front and I can make a judgement.
<>
A car, you brain will register right away. A bike will generally take longer. And a sparsely lit bike might not even be seen at all.

Totally agree, hence 3 rear lights at different heights: helmet, rucksack, seatpost.

rolf_f

shouldbeinbed wrote:

A few generalisations there, why do you think it needs to be a competition front v back, just put decent lights at both ends.

I think the point might be that whilst one or two Smart 1 watts for 20 quid will see you blinding people behind you from half a mile a way, an equivalently useful front light will cost rather more. I've got a few of the similarly priced Smart front lights and they aren't in the same league as the rears.

One point is that car headlights are a lot brighter than their tail lights - so easier for a front light to be swamped by other lighting.

meanredspider

Rolf F wrote:

One point is that car headlights are a lot brighter than their tail lights - so easier for a front light to be swamped by other lighting.

Absolutely. Being approached from the rear, car headlights are working for you with rear reflectors/reflectives etc. Cars at junctions, on the other hand, have to pick you out from a myriad of lighting behind you into which you blend nicely.

veronese68

meanredspider wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

One point is that car headlights are a lot brighter than their tail lights - so easier for a front light to be swamped by other lighting.

Absolutely. Being approached from the rear, car headlights are working for you with rear reflectors/reflectives etc. Cars at junctions, on the other hand, have to pick you out from a myriad of lighting behind you into which you blend nicely.

This is why those lights that are always on quite bright with a brighter flash every second or so are effective. Always on, with an added "look at me" flash.

plodski

Plenty of opinions and personal experience here but surely there is some research into what is most effective?

There are lots of groups with cash out there that would have an interest in the subject - manufacturers, cycling groups and government organisations.

Does any know of any research?

meanredspider

plodski wrote:

Plenty of opinions and personal experience here but surely there is some research into what is most effective?

There are lots of groups with cash out there that would have an interest in the subject - manufacturers, cycling groups and government organisations.

Does any know of any research?

It's like the helmet debate (god help us) - how do you measure effectiveness? It's even more complex though because it's not a question of lid/no lid - it's a question of environmental conditions, number of lights, brightness of lights, combination of lights etc etc.

In this instance, I just use my experiences as a car driver. You see for yourself from the driving seat what works and, hopefully see, what doesn't.

fossyant

bikeboon wrote:

I think a decent set of rear lights is therefore much more important than the headlights, no? The only situation I could think of is an oncoming car turning right into the path of the cyclist - that does not happen often though. Pedestrians never look anyway...

Thoughts?

Are you kidding - drivers turning across a cyclist's path are the main cause of cyclists getting knocked off, especially in urban/city areas.

bikeboon

fossyant wrote:

bikeboon wrote:

I think a decent set of rear lights is therefore much more important than the headlights, no? The only situation I could think of is an oncoming car turning right into the path of the cyclist - that does not happen often though. Pedestrians never look anyway...

Thoughts?

Are you kidding - drivers turning across a cyclist's path are the main cause of cyclists getting knocked off, especially in urban/city areas.

Source, please.

We know about cement mixers turning left.

beegee

I don't do it - but I think it - cars often don't see the handlebar lights because they are 'shielded' by parked cars in junction situations and so really the best positions for 'see me' lights is on top of your head. It's a bit uncool to have flashing lights on top of your head but they do get seen much more easily. Even though I have static and flashing lights on my handlebars I am not surprised when someone pulls out on me. However if I go running with a lit up flashing top it's almost embarrasing how people slow down to look.

rodgers73

Not all commutes are through purely urban areas! Out of the 22 miles each way about 1 mile of my route is town centre and about 5 or 6 miles is unlit A or B road some of which has some very ropey surfacing. Front lights pretty important to me.

meanredspider

I do a rural commute - lid lights are pretty important to me to be seen over the bumps in the road and various hill crests on the single track roads.

prawny

When I supplimented my smart front light with a magicshine I had a lot fewr cars pull out of junctions infront of me, whether that is because they noticed me or because before they could tell I was a bike and assumed I would be travelling slowly whereas with a brighter light thought I could be on a small motorbike I don't know. But there was definitley an improvement.

It also helped on the sections where there are no streetlights

Hoopdriver

I do a LOT of riding on dark country lanes and definitely like bright front lights although I think some of the new generation dazzlers are just over the top - I mean, 3000 lumens (claimed) for a Niterider Pro 3000? You're just going to blind somebody.

beverick

Personally I resemble a christmas tree from 1 November to the end of Feb. I try to apply the idea of 'see and be seen' with the lights.

I have two lights on the handlebars a Cateye 5 led and an EL320. Depending on road circumstance one of them is usually in flashing mode, the other is stable. the EL320 also gives off sufficient light for the mile or so I travel along unlit roads. I have also acquired a single LED 'loop' light this winter which I intend to fit to the top tube to shine up onto my chest. I tried using a 3 LED one last year and, although it reflected off my hi-viz top making me more visible, I found it distracting.

At the back I have an LD600 under the saddle and an LD1100 on the pannier rack. At least two of the three banks of lights the above provide are invariably set in flashing mode. The 600 and 1100's are two of the brightest rear lights I am aware of. I have also acquired a Blackburn MARS 4 light which I clip, in flashing mode, into the back of my collar. I have found that the high level light has done more to stop poorly timed overtakes than anything.

The LD1100 and MARS 4 also give side-on illumination.

I also have both pedal and wheel reflectors fitted. My winter cycle tops are 'night vision' and the pannier has three scotch-light strips on the back.

I was stopped by drivers twice (once the driver of a police van) a couple of years ago asking what my lights were and where to get them.

Bob

jimmypippa

meanredspider wrote:

plodski wrote:

Plenty of opinions and personal experience here but surely there is some research into what is most effective?

There are lots of groups with cash out there that would have an interest in the subject - manufacturers, cycling groups and government organisations.

Does any know of any research?

It's like the helmet debate (god help us) - how do you measure effectiveness? It's even more complex though because it's not a question of lid/no lid - it's a question of environmental conditions, number of lights, brightness of lights, combination of lights etc etc.

In this instance, I just use my experiences as a car driver. You see for yourself from the driving seat what works and, hopefully see, what doesn't.

That's it.

As has been said before, car headlights (if on) will illuminate any reflectives you have as well as your own lights if approaching from the rear. For a car pulling out from a junction in front, that won't happen, unless there is a helpful car going in the opposite direction that illuminates you for the other car.

fossyant

bikeboon wrote:

fossyant wrote:

bikeboon wrote:

I think a decent set of rear lights is therefore much more important than the headlights, no? The only situation I could think of is an oncoming car turning right into the path of the cyclist - that does not happen often though. Pedestrians never look anyway...

Thoughts?

Are you kidding - drivers turning across a cyclist's path are the main cause of cyclists getting knocked off, especially in urban/city areas.

Source, please.

We know about cement mixers turning left.

Most of the trouble I get is from the front - driver's pull out, don't anticipate your speed - yes I'm covering brakes. I've been hit from junctions a few times, never from behind.


That said I have rather good lights at both ends, but still doesn't stop all SMIDSY's