Guided bus madness

Mad Roadie

the headline reads:
A cyclist in Cambridgeshire has had a very lucky escape on the county’s new guided busway, narrowly avoiding being run over by a bus when he took to it after finding the bridleway alongside it closed for repairs. The cyclist, reported to have been wearing headphones, jumped clear at the last moment, but his bike was crushed under the bus, forcing the temporary closure of the route, reports Cambridge News.

see http://road.cc/content/news/45705-cambridgeshire-cyclist-has-lucky-escape-bike-crushed-countys-new-guided-busway

ok - so the bridleway was dug up so the cyclist took to the adjacent lane,

not ok - cycling wearing headphones is stupid, cycling on a guided bus route is a bit stupid, but so is running someone down, that the driver admitted he could see, and gave the horn.

surely it is a case of 'this is my bus-way, sod you' as it implies he could see them but was still prepared to go on regardless because they were in 'HIS' bus lane
and to top it all, complain that the bike he had just crushed had made his bus un-driveable - best take the day off pal, infact think of the stress, there could be a week's sicky in this!
thoughts?

esspeebee

I'd take issue with your "ok" part. As you can see from the photo in that article, these buses run on special concrete tracks, with no possibility to move off them until they finish. Cycling on that when you know the buses run on it at 50mph is pretty bloody stupid IMO. All sections of that bridleway have perfectly viable road routes; they just take a bit longer.

Fairly standard case of "well I don't know what else you expected to happen".

Gizmodo

esspeebee wrote:

Fairly standard case of "well I don't know what else you expected to happen".

So you are driving your car up a "cars only" road and in front of you is a cyclist. You know the cyclist should not be there but you see him/her and sound your horn. The cyclist ignores you.

So you are saying because the cyclist is stupid, you would continue to drive regardless of the obstruction and you would knock him/her off the bike and run over it? You wouldn't slow down and use your brake, even though you know the collision might damage your car?

Gizmodo

I would like to hear the bus driver's account. Did he not have time to stop? Travelling at 56mph did the driver try to stop as well as using his horn, but simply didn't have time?

Mad Roadie

Gizmodo wrote:

I would like to hear the bus driver's account. Did he not have time to stop? Travelling at 56mph did the driver try to stop as well as using his horn, but simply didn't have time?

he is a bus driver - he doesn't multi task - horn and brake for christ's sake!

mouth

Mad Roadie wrote:

Gizmodo wrote:

I would like to hear the bus driver's account. Did he not have time to stop? Travelling at 56mph did the driver try to stop as well as using his horn, but simply didn't have time?

he is a bus driver - he doesn't multi task - horn and brake for christ's sake!

as an actual bus driver, my first thought would be stop, then horn. doesn't say how far the cyclist was using the bus way for. if he'd just jumped on then pulling up a fully loaded double decker from 56mph to 0 is no mean feat. take into account he can't steer off either. a total weight of something like 20 tonnes makes me think that the bike being the only casualty is a result.

we have similar problems with the tram system here in Nottingham, with cars etc pulling up for no real reason and bike wheels getting stuck in the tracks.

cycling with headphones on? fool (my intended word would be edited anyway).

Anonymous

Cycling with headphones is not stupid.

I'm safer on the roads with my headphones in than loads of cyclists I see on the road not wearing headphones.

mouth

pastabake wrote:

Cycling with headphones is not stupid.

I'm safer on the roads with my headphones in than loads of cyclists I see on the road not wearing headphones.

Tell us that when you're underneath a lorry or something. I was following a guy whilst driving a bus the other day and he literally had no idea I was there. When I hit the horn to warn him of my presence (and for no other reason) his eyes almost popped out of his head cartoon-style.

Cycling whilst using headphones may not be stupid as you put it, but only if you apply common sense and use your other senses in place of your hearing.

stevec205gti

Oooo - something I may be able to add to....

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Home/Bike-is-crushed-by-guided-bus-after-cyclist-rides-along-track-05102011.htm

The CEN always gives a glossy overview of the guided busway, and as its several years overdue has been in the paper every week. My thoughts, along with most peoples, are its six of one and half a dozen of the other. I used to cycle on the guided bit all the time before it was open, but since there's been buses running up and down it that would be madness. Also, there's been repeated reports of one or two cyclists sat on there holding buses up. If I was going to cycle along it I'd go on the wrong carriage way so I was heading into buses, not have them sneak up behind me, and then I could see and get out the way. However, the bus not stopping is completely unacceptable, and typifies a lot of buses drivers views on cyclists round cambridge.

The original article quoted mentions an incident previously where a cyclist was hit by a bus - it doesn't mention that the cyclist was on one track, the bus on the other and the cyclist some how managed to wobble off and fall from track into the other into the bus!!! :roll:

Anonymous

Mouth wrote:

pastabake wrote:

Cycling with headphones is not stupid.

I'm safer on the roads with my headphones in than loads of cyclists I see on the road not wearing headphones.

Tell us that when you're underneath a lorry or something. I was following a guy whilst driving a bus the other day and he literally had no idea I was there. When I hit the horn to warn him of my presence (and for no other reason) his eyes almost popped out of his head cartoon-style.

Cycling whilst using headphones may not be stupid as you put it, but only if you apply common sense and use your other senses in place of your hearing.

I have a neck and am able to turn it. My earphones are not ear muffs.

Mad Roadie

pastabake wrote:

Cycling with headphones is not stupid.

I'm safer on the roads with my headphones in than loads of cyclists I see on the road not wearing headphones.

Madness, and stpidity..
Mouth my one liner was intentionally provocative, and you responded without getting wound up and logically - respect.

as for headphones - how anyone think they can be safer without one of their key senses on a bike beggars believe - maybe blindfolded rush-hour cycling will catch on?

Tom Butcher

It's been my experience that bus drivers are more likely to be w***ers than the the average person - but deliberately ramming a cyclist just because they are on some kind of bus lane is unusually poor behaviour even for them.

thecrofter

On the issue of headphones. You are doing yourself no favours by cycling or indeed walking/running down a busy street wearing them. At the most basic level our hearing is our first line of defence against attack (from Sabre-tooth Tigers and the like) to voluntarily negate your early warning system is making it much more difficult to avoid being in dangerous situations.

It's a sure way to end up in hospital, and it may be the other guys fault, but you're still the one in hospital.

Ben6899

I designed curve-widening trial sections for the Cambridge busway. Totally nothing to do with suicidal cyclists and inattentive bus drivers, but I thought I would mention it.

esspeebee

stevec205gti wrote:

I used to cycle on the guided bit all the time before it was open, but since there's been buses running up and down it that would be madness.

Especially now that they've put tarmac on the cycle path beside the route, so that it's one of the nicest surfaces for road cycling you'll ever find.

Keith1983

Lots of people jumping to lots of conclusuions on here! Nothing new there then. The cyclist shouldn't have been there, that much we know is true. How much signage is there on this bus way to make that blindingly obvious? Also the fact that he clearly could get on to the bus way very easily is alarming. It is also alarming that the driver couldn't stop in time, what the reasons for this were we don't know, maybe the cyclist jumping in front of him, lack of driver attention, poor brakes on a large vehicle, the list goes on.

The cyclist should be charged and then maybe the bus driver. The problem is that there is little concrete evidence as to the drivers part. By evidence I mean that based on fact and not speculation.

The only thing that is beyond doubt is that riding with earphones in is stupid.

mouth

Keith1983 wrote:

Lots of people jumping to lots of conclusuions on here! Nothing new there then. The cyclist shouldn't have been there, that much we know is true. How much signage is there on this bus way to make that blindingly obvious? Also the fact that he clearly could get on to the bus way very easily is alarming. It is also alarming that the driver couldn't stop in time, what the reasons for this were we don't know, maybe the cyclist jumping in front of him, lack of driver attention, poor brakes on a large vehicle, the list goes on.

The cyclist should be charged and then maybe the bus driver. The problem is that there is little concrete evidence as to the drivers part. By evidence I mean that based on fact and not speculation.

The only thing that is beyond doubt is that riding with earphones in is stupid.

TBH it looks like riding in the bus way seems to be not dissimilar from riding along a train track - I know I wouldn't but train tracks are reasonably accessible to cyclists, pedestrians and cars on some occasions.

Poor brakes seems unlikely. Vehicles in this kind of fleet are so heavily scrutinized that in our company a driver took the head off a suspension bolt by going over a kerb inappropriately and it was identified within 48 hours (he didn't report it). These vehicles all seem to be new and have been modified in some way to run on the guided track (I draw this conclusion since the driver has no need whatsoever to steer so something must be doing it). As I mentioned in a previous post pulling up a full bus from 50+mph without skittling over a passenger would be quite impressive. Wouldn't wanna try it myself.

It would be nice to get the drivers side of things on this occasion since I think this could shed a lot of light. I make no secret of my profession and I will admit that I do know some complete 'idiots' (keeping it clean for the mods) and thy may be grumpy and miserable but I honestly don't know any that would deliberately not stop for something such as a cyclist or pedestrian. Part of me thinks that with relatively little to watch - remember he doesn't steer the vehicle, only controlling speed and not having to worry about other vehicles or road hazards that he may have 'switched off' causing inattention. I've never driven on a bus way or for comparison a train or tram, but I imagine this could easily happen.

In this kind of situation self-preservation really should set in and the driver should be thinking about stopping before any kind of horn-blaring.

On a further point most of the 'near-misses' - defined by people walking in the road I have as a bus driver seem to involve pedestrians or cyclists using mobiles (talking or texting) or earphones. Goes to show that it must cause some kind of distraction. The funniest being when I was blocking a zebra crossing (bad I know but I was waiting for a fire engine to pass that I hadn't spotted early enough) and a young lady literally walked into the side of the bus. Not like I'd only just stopped either. I'd been there a good few seconds).

Just glad the cyclist was uninjured. He might need a new bike, but that is surely better than needing a new wheelchair or nappy.

stevec205gti

esspeebee wrote:

stevec205gti wrote:

I used to cycle on the guided bit all the time before it was open, but since there's been buses running up and down it that would be madness.

Especially now that they've put tarmac on the cycle path beside the route, so that it's one of the nicest surfaces for road cycling you'll ever find.

Apart from the bit he was on - it's being resurfaced at the moment. The other bits are billiard table smooth though....

Style over speed

from this it looks like the bus driver was just being a cunt, what if the cyclist was deaf for instance;

Comment posted on the Cambridge News website:

Tracey wrote:
I was on that Bus and I was fully disgusted in the actions of the bus driver. The cyclist agreed should not have been on the bus way, but I saw no sign saying no cycling? The driver stopped some time before to talk to a passing bus obviously she was warned that there was a cyclist ahead. The driver started blowing her horn some time before she hit him but never slowed down! WHY? Then there was an awful crunching noise and we passengers on the top thought he was dead! It was an awful and distressing incident. The driver never once spoke to us to tell us to leave the bus we were left to our own devices. Whilst she had a ***!! The poor cyclist was in shock and badly shaken. Recovery operations swung smoothly into operation made me laugh out loud. Really? I agree with the previous comment if this was on the road we would be looking at dangerous driving here. If a cyclist gets in my way on my next shopping trip to Cambridge by car I may add should I just run him over and say so what I blew my horn? Just as a foot note what would happen if this Cyclist was Deaf? I feel he would be Dead or seriously injured.

Sirius631

Bikes can travel in most normal bus lanes. Maybe the cyclist hadn't figured the difference. It may not take two brain cells to figure that guided bus lanes are different, but it might take three.

Gizmodo

Style over speed wrote:

from this it looks like the bus driver was just being a ****, what if the cyclist was deaf for instance;

Comment posted on the Cambridge News website:

Tracey wrote:
I was on that Bus and I was fully disgusted in the actions of the bus driver. The cyclist agreed should not have been on the bus way, but I saw no sign saying no cycling? The driver stopped some time before to talk to a passing bus obviously she was warned that there was a cyclist ahead. The driver started blowing her horn some time before she hit him but never slowed down!

Someone's got to say it - woman driver.

mouth

If this is a true account of the driver's actions and I am in no position to assume otherwise at this point) then I am almost ashamed to be of the same profession. Sorry.

The fact the cyclist has admitted he knew he shouldn't have been there probably kept the driver out of prison. If you were a passenger on this vehicle I'd urge you to complain to the company and make sure you put at least one nail in the drivers' career coffin. I wouldn't even travel with them again.

beverick

Leeds has been afflicted with these non-sensical, hyper expensive guided bus ways for the last ten years. It's not uncommon to see cyclists using them and there are a disproportionate number of KSIs in them. I can't understand why cyclists use them given the fact that, as the kerbs are 30-40cm high (or so), there's little or no easy escape route if a bus enters the lane in your path. There's also a deep ditch between the wheel tracks waiting for the inatentive rider.

Neither can I understand why the bus-driver couldn't/didn't pull up. Irrespective of size and weight (and ignoring prevailing conditions), travelling at 56mph the driver should still have been able to bring the vehicle to a standstill within about 150ft once the brakes have been applied - ie less than four times the vehicle's length. Also, to be safe the driver (or indeed any road user) should not have been travelling so fast that they cannot not stop in the same lane, in the distance they can see to be clear.

Depending on headphone design, their volume and the material being listened to, I see no reason why wearing them is any more or less dangerous than listening to similar material in a car. I invariably cycle using a single ear-piece and I know I remain more aware of my surroundings than if I were in the car with no other noise.

There's more to this than the article suggests.

Bob

Keith1983

What exactly are these guided bus ways for? Are they saying that drivers are not capable of steering a bus themselves?

I can see the attraction to cyclists if the surfaces on the guided ways are super smooth as some suggest after all as a cyclist it is difficult to find a decent surface so a super smooth one would be fun! Not that this fact makes is a sensible choice!

esspeebee

Keith1983 wrote:

What exactly are these guided bus ways for? Are they saying that drivers are not capable of steering a bus themselves?

I can see the attraction to cyclists if the surfaces on the guided ways are super smooth as some suggest after all as a cyclist it is difficult to find a decent surface so a super smooth one would be fun! Not that this fact makes is a sensible choice!

They take the buses off the main roads and out of the traffic. The bus journey from my parents' village into the centre of Cambridge, that used to be 45 minutes, is 20 on the guided busway.

As for the surface, there's a purpose built cycle path running alongside the busway. It's a smoother surface than the bus tracks, and has the extra advantage of about eight feet of effective width rather than four inches. And no buses to hold up. There's absolutely no reason to ride on the tracks now, even on the section that's being resurfaced. There's a perfectly usable road detour to avoid it that adds maybe ten minutes to your ride.

rick_chasey

I saw this busway being built - goes through the villages of all my friends and where I grew up.

You'd be deliberately asking for trouble if you're cycling on the actual busway bit.

Cyclist was probably so used to the busway being there but not actually being used.

Keep cyclists away from traffic = no hassle for everyone concerned.

Keith1983

It does seem strange that there is a lack of signage to make it clear that the bus way is not for cyclists? I know it should be plain obvious, but clearly not!

The bus drivers actions do sound alarming though and it would be interesting to get an accurate reliable account of his actions which are clearly being questioned!

Tom Dean

beverick wrote:

I see no reason why wearing them is any more or less dangerous than listening to similar material in a car.

I know in which situation I would rather get hit by a bus.

Keith1983

beverick wrote:

I see no reason why wearing them is any more or less dangerous than listening to similar material in a car.

Bob

The reason is because the sound from earphones is provided directly into the ear canal, essentially blocking other osund out. So in a car the volume could actually be louder than earphones but the earphones would block out all other sounds which make them far more dangerous.

ooermissus

Say that witness's account was correct, and the driver both saw the cyclist and made no attempt to brake, what charges would be expected? Sounds like attempted murder to me.

Anonymous

My earphones don't block out all sounds, if a massive bus was up my arse I'd know about it. I also look behind me frequently when safe.

I come to the conclusion that anyone riding with headphones nearly having an accident every 10 mins as a result of wearing headphones are equally as unsafe on the road not wearing headphones.

My headphones also have the ability of volume control, this means I can reduce the volume to almost nill if I wish to do so.

The curry mile in Manchester, probably one of the most hazardous pieces of road in Manchester for cyclists, I frequently pass through this area on my bike with headphones in, and I'm no worse off than any other cyclist, in fact, I usually witness stupid cyclists, I'm never witnessed as a stupid cyclist.