Trouble on ranmore

Anonymous

Trouble on Ranmore

Some may or may not be aware of the (authorised and approved) downhill event, The Surrey Stomper, that was being arranged for Ranmore area (part of North Downs/Surrey Hills). This was to be part of the Nirvana Cycles Surrey Hills Gravity Enduro Series.

Well the Ranmore event has had to be cancelled due to a big fuss with the Ranger, involving a rant in the press and supposedly police involved.

All gone really bad and the trails over there now are in the spotlight, and MTB gets another bad name in the area.


https://www.facebook.com/notes/surrey-h ... 7655931733

http://www.flickr.com/photos/71958789@N ... otostream/

The truth? http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic ... st-3011769


So we're bandits now as well as drunken swearing hooligans.

Northwind

What a mess... We've got a tolerated dh area near my house, it's quite good but if you were to set up a paid-for race there and start advertising it the rangers'd be up there trashing the trails before you could blink. You can only push tolerance so far.

The ranger's obviously a fantasist mind. "cut down 100 metres of old trees"- aye right. As if the trailbuilders would want to put in that much work, even if they thought it was a good idea! Dropping trees is hard!

All just goes back to the old nonsense of actively encouraging people to build secretly- ask for permission and you get the shaft, keep it quiet and do what you like with no controls at all and you get away with it.

cee

Northwind wrote:

What a mess... We've got a tolerated dh area near my house, it's quite good but if you were to set up a paid-for race there and start advertising it the rangers'd be up there trashing the trails before you could blink. You can only push tolerance so far.
.

what a mess indeed.....

although....as to the tolerated dh area.....if its the one I am thinkining about... then you might be surprised about the ranger....

without making too much sense for the general public.....you will probably follow what i am saying below.

some guys I know were looking to build some more legit in the area.....spoke to the various rangers from around and were amazed that they all wanted their area linked in...were mad keen infact....

It was actually the managers of the 'bristled thumb breaking place' that put the kybosh on it.

Anonymous

Good grief.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0 ... 5_10_2011/

About 1hr 50m in.

If what I've read about what really happened is true, then all of this is a pack of lies.

Claim is the badger set was built by the badgers *after* the jump was built, and no trees have been cut down at all.

I don't really know what has given them the hump over this, and the guy makes out that he doesn't know why they've done it, and yet this was all planned!

From STW...

Williams Events had a meeting with Mole Valley District Council, The National Trust and English Heritage before any work began. Maps were pawed over, plans submitted and permission given. What then happened, after several weeks, was the local Ranger asked to see progress. Williams Events took the Ranger to the site to show said progress. The 'mood' that day was still positive from the Ranger but an email the following morning from the Ranger expressed he was not in favor of the event after all. The Nation Trust then withdrew permission following consultation with the Ranger.

and now...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-15182884

bike-a-swan

Am I going to get shouted at by everyone if I go within half a mile of ranmore now then?

diy

I have absolutely no time for the national trust. They take control and then close down access to anyone not part of their club.

If those trails have been established for years then the NT cannot stop you riding them.

Plod wont go very far with the criminal damage investigation as its unlikely to meet the charging standard. As anyone who can establish the belief of permission has a defence of lawful excuse.

The criminal damage notices are bolting the gate after the horse, as its really just a notice to undermine the lawful excuse.

I believe at best they have a claim for damages under trespass law.

Atz

They can certainly tell you to get off their land. Hard to ride trails if you're being turfed off them by the police for trespass.

diy

Trespass is not a police matter.

Atz

Whilst it's a civil matter, if you refuse to remove yourself from someone's land and they call the police then they will more than likely attend. If a ranger turns up and asks you to leave and you do then yes, nothing to do with the police.

That said, if you're aggravating the ranger, it's hardly going to encourage him to leave the trails alone, the first thing he's going to do is finish off any of the others he knows about to ensure that there's no reason to trespass in the first place.

paul.skibum

Sounds like someone has over egged the issue to the press - shame. Not sure what you can do but sounds like the organisers need to contact BBC with their side of the story/planning process and get it across - although there is less news in responsible organised race is banned by uppitty ranger than dangerous biker types with rock music and shovels rip up trees and sacrifice badger in local beauty spot.

Clank

diy wrote:

Trespass is not a police matter.

But criminal damage is.

Surrey have a track record of persuing prosecution for such matters. Doesn't suprise me the Plod have been involved if Surrey beleive there is a case to be answered.

I'm still puzzled as to why this debarcle with the event got so far. I'm not convinced we've been presented the full facts yet from either side, so I'm reserving judgement on that score.

diy

Clank wrote:

diy wrote:

Trespass is not a police matter.

But criminal damage is.

Surrey have a track record of pursuing prosecution for such matters. Doesn't surprise me the Plod have been involved if Surrey believe there is a case to be answered.

I've already covered this. But if you'd like to read for yourself here is the law reference (read para 2) and here is the charging standard for policy on prosecution. Lawful Excuse is well defined in criminal law and covers many criminal acts.

I'm still puzzled as to why this debarcle with the event got so far. I'm not convinced we've been presented the full facts yet from either side, so I'm reserving judgement on that score.

Yep something doesn't smell right. You really can't go chopping down trees on people's land without the express permission to do so. You also can't get upset when you allow someone to build a trail that you don't like the look of.

Anonymous

Supposedly they never chopped down any trees, and the badger set they "criminally" built on top of was actually built after so if anything it's the badgers at fault!

diy

That explains the odd notice.. It seams strange to quote the Wildlife and Countryside Act, in relation to criminal damage. I missed the note about the badgers..

The moment Mr Badger moved in, the game changed. The ranger is absolutely right and has no choice other than to stop this. Badgers are highly protected and you look like a right muppet if you say well we were here first.

Badgers are protected by the Badgers Act 1973, 1991 and Protection of Badger Act 1992, Schedule 7 of the Wildlife & Countryside Act 1981 and the Wildlife & Countryside (Amendment) Act 1985. The ranger would/should be properly aware of these laws and his liability under them.

It seems to me that the trail builders expressed a real lack of knowledge of country side law and probably openned the ranger up to all sorts of risks. Its quite likely that they have committed criminal acts (albeit not trespass or criminal damage).

Plod could well take action under the Sec 3 of the Protection of Badgers Act 1992. Though he'd struggle (just to clarify for people who think otherwise) under Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 which covers when plod can act in relation to trespassing as there are several requirements that would typically be missing (refs available on request)..

The Northern Monkey

Yup, badgers are special!

cat_with_no_tail

deadkenny wrote:

Supposedly they never chopped down any trees, and the badger set they "criminally" built on top of was actually built after so if anything it's the badgers at fault!

Wouldn't surprise me. Badgers are cnuts!

t0pc4t

i hate badgers personally and if my riding disrupts them all the better

cooldad

t0pc4t wrote:

i hate badgers personally and if my riding disrupts them all the better

I've never known a badger personally. Couple of sheep, and a goat, but no badger.

t0pc4t

well I have, they're tossers, take my word for it.

stripy sh1tbags one and all.

Anonymous

Seen loads of badgers, but only ever dead ones at the side of the road.

Convinced the farmers kill them and dump them on the road to look like road kill and avoid the animal rights nuts going after them.

cooldad

Badgers are funny