Help - Cornering!
GarryM
Posts: 77
I came off my bike yesterday and I’d really like to understand quite how/why it happened. I appreciate it’s impossible for anyone here to know exactly as they weren’t there but perhaps someone might have some comments which might help me to work it out.
My background: I’ve been a keen mountain biker for 10 years and have pretty good bike handling skills. This was only my second ride on a road bike, an Eddy Merckx EMX1 with Vittoria Zaffiro Pro tyres at 100 psi on Fulcum 7 wheels.
The corner: minor road (Exmoor) downhill right hander with positive camber, old and worn tarmac but no potholes or loose gravel. Approached corner fairly quickly, hands in low position, water running across road before corner which compromised my braking slightly but not significantly. Corner itself was dry. Half way through corner, front wheel washed out dumping me on the ground.
It happened in a split second – my shoulder, elbow and hip took the impact, the bike hardly touched the ground (thankfully, so no damage to my new bike except the ‘bar tape!) I was following a friend who had no difficulty. Afterwards, I looked carefully at the road surface but could see nothing obvious. It was fairly rough though.
I am used to sliding wheels on my mountain bike and I am conditioned not to touch the brakes in a corner. I just don’t understand why the front wheel washed out so violently; I had no time to react at all. Can anyone offer any words of wisdom?
My background: I’ve been a keen mountain biker for 10 years and have pretty good bike handling skills. This was only my second ride on a road bike, an Eddy Merckx EMX1 with Vittoria Zaffiro Pro tyres at 100 psi on Fulcum 7 wheels.
The corner: minor road (Exmoor) downhill right hander with positive camber, old and worn tarmac but no potholes or loose gravel. Approached corner fairly quickly, hands in low position, water running across road before corner which compromised my braking slightly but not significantly. Corner itself was dry. Half way through corner, front wheel washed out dumping me on the ground.
It happened in a split second – my shoulder, elbow and hip took the impact, the bike hardly touched the ground (thankfully, so no damage to my new bike except the ‘bar tape!) I was following a friend who had no difficulty. Afterwards, I looked carefully at the road surface but could see nothing obvious. It was fairly rough though.
I am used to sliding wheels on my mountain bike and I am conditioned not to touch the brakes in a corner. I just don’t understand why the front wheel washed out so violently; I had no time to react at all. Can anyone offer any words of wisdom?
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I reckon you still had water on the edge of your tires was enough to loose traction.
You will obviously know about these things coming from a MTB background though.
Other than that, could be a bit of loose material in the corner. Doesn't take much to destabilise a road tyre as the contact patch is so small and stiff, ref. Jens Voigt binning it a couple of years ago due to a bump in the road.
On Strava.{/url}
Wasn't a bump that took voigt down but the white line in the middle of the road
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-payruR2-k
What about bike position? If I find myself going into a corner like this again, should I be trying to stand the bike up and lean my body more, as opposed to leaning bike and body together, as I did?
I had also wondered about body weight. On trails on my MTB I would have been standing with my weight balanced between my outside foot and the handlebars, bike leant over hard and would have been turning my body so that I’m effectively turning the bike around my foot, if that makes sense. It takes a bit of pressure off the front wheel and if the conditions are slippery or dusty, it slides the bike round the corner. I know I shouldn’t be doing anything like that on a road bike but I’m pretty sure I had my weight fairly evenly balanced between outside pedal, saddle and ‘bars. It doesn’t feel natural on the road bike to get my weight off the saddle, particularly when my hands are in the drop position. To be honest, nothing feels that natural on a road bike to me yet! Ironically, I was beginning to feel more at home just before this happened!
Also a MTBer and have been riding for about 6 months on a roadie. The problem with the thin tires is that you quickly move from lots of grip to no grip. Once they start sliding, keeping control is pretty hard... but if you are used to sliding on a MTB.. it should help.
Tyre choice makes a huge difference in terms of compound soft/hard|ness. My bike came with Conti GP - which are pretty soft... but I switched to Conti Attack & Force for the summer. The Attack & Force tires do run faster... but have noticeably less grip than the GPs - especially in the wet. Corners that I'd sail around on the GPs (in the same wet conditions) - I was sliding around all over the place.. and were generally a lot more twitchy.
Looking at the Conti site: http://www.conti-tyres.co.uk/conticycle/road.shtml
I would guess that the further to the right you go... the faster rolling the tires are... but at the expense of grip.
Ah, paint! The road outside one of our local schools has been plastered with lines and text "to make it safer". Unless you're on a bike in the wet. :roll:
" •reliable and convenient 60 TPI foldable tyre
•hard-wearing with potential for high mileages
•economical, long-life tyre that rides and looks special"
I can't see what looks special about them?! Sounds like it is aimed at durability rather than grip. I also see you can buy them for £8 each and whilst I like a bargain perhaps they're just not very good? Then again, I've only done about 60 miles on them so far so perhaps their grip will improve as thescouselander says. Even so, I'm tempted to get some Conti 25mm Grand Prix 4 Season if they will help me re-build some confidence.
As for alternatives, GP4000s tyres are fantastic IMO: lightweight with low rolling resistance and grip in all weathers (apart from ice that is)...but they are not as durable as others and more prone to punctures/cutting up (although others would contest this)so, with the wet season coming up, it might be good to plump for something like Gators if you feel you need to change. However, you might just want to look at your technique first as that will always be a factor.
FYI..
I have the std Conti "Grand Prix" and they grip really well in the wet. I would assume the 4 Sessions would have even more grip. They also appear to be more puncture resistant than the Attack/Force. Rolling resistance was only really noticeable on smoother roads.... so not that much benefit on that front. The GPs did appear to wear pretty quickly.. but that is preferable to "ice skating" when it's wet!
The point I'm getting at it is that maybe it's just the tyres, and gatorskins seem a decent, tough alternative.
"As I said last time, it won't happen again."
I try and consiously do this and it seems to help (oh god what have I said .. thats me falling off in the next week or so).
strava profile
At a guess the main thing is to be smooth .. no sudden movements, weight transfers, etc while leaning over so get it all sorted (including speed) before making the turn.
I'd hazard a guess that moving completely off the saddle is bad becuase you'd be less stable through the turn. So I think I tend to move over to the inside of the saddle, stick my knee right out, get my shoulder down and then commit .. but like I say still learning .. and getting it wrong (and sitting up) on a regular basis.
strava profile
The way you leant into the corner sounds spot on.
I think that the great cycling conditions suddenly going onto a wet surface with new tyres were the main factors.
Having a new bike and, understandably wanting to "give it some" would have had nothing to do with it
Glad the bike's ok fella, sounds like you did the honourable thing and took the impact to save the bike, I bust my collarbone saving my bike last year
Pinarello Dogma 2 (ex Team SKY) 2012
Cube Agree GTC Ultegra 2012
Giant Defy 105 2009
I think maybe you underestimated the effect of the water.
Plus maybe a bit of inexperience / too much optimism about grip.
Whenever I see water ahead like that, I get very frightened.
Basically get as much speed off as you possibly can while still in a straight line, then go into super-delicate cornering mode.
You get very little warning on a road bike when it's about to let go.
#1 have balls
#2 outside pedal down
#3 press hard on outside pedal whilst turning
#4 - try not to break when turning - if you must, straighten up a bit.
Job done.
The inportant thing now is not to lose confidense in your cornering ability, get out there and ride hard as soon as you can.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3013/243 ... 8d.jpg?v=0
http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... 076tl5.jpg
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I hadn't intended to buy tyres after only 2 rides but I'm going to. I've learnt from the experience, thanks again everybody. Can't wait to get out there again!