The Eternal Question

meanredspider

Need to shed a few pounds that have crept on me over the last 2 or 3 months of dealing with the general crap that life throws at you.

Now I know that if I stop cycling, the weight will fall off me (slight exaggeration but not far off) but I don't want to do that.

The challenge is to keep the cycling up but not to overcompensate with the food. I find this hard.

So I've employed some technical help in the form of the MyFitnessPal app on my phone. Love the way it scans barcodes and loads the details. As ever, though, the 30+mile RT commute is a significant calorie burn but pitching it right is tough. To explain further - to hit my target of just 1lb a week loss, I need 1800kcals per day (according to the app) but, again, the app reckons I burn 1500kcals in the 30 miles (average over 16mph) so adds that to my allowance. That estimate doesn't need to be too far wrong to negate the effect of the daily calorie goal rendering the whole effort useless.

Can I call on the combined wisdom to guide me here?

Torvid

The apps probably wrong on the cal burn for the ride only way to get that right is with a power meter. I'd half that for the first couple of days and see how I feel.

My Hour and half of interval training was putting me at 1000 kcal burnt and I was bearly able to walk after getting off the bike.

Monkeypump

Are you over-thinking this a little?

Surely some adjustment to your 'food in/exercise out' calorie balance is all you need?
If you're only aiming to lost a pound a week, good old common sense regarding nutrition and exercise should see you right. Even with a couple of weeks trial and error, you should be able to adjust quickly.

I may, of course, be talking nonsense, but your target seems (relatively) easy to hit.

meanredspider

Monkeypump wrote:

Are you over-thinking this a little?

Surely some adjustment to your 'food in/exercise out' calorie balance is all you need?
If you're only aiming to lost a pound a week, good old common sense regarding nutrition and exercise should see you right. Even with a couple of weeks trial and error, you should be able to adjust quickly.

I may, of course, be talking nonsense, but your target seems (relatively) easy to hit.

Possibly - though I need something to guide me to help me not fall into the trap that I often fall into of "I've done 30 miles, that "Mars Bar" won't hurt" kinda thing... As I say, I can sit in hospital with my son for a month and lose fat but, after a blast into work on a morning, I could eat a horse.

Stupidly, I managed really well a few years back. I lost a kilo a week for 15 weeks straight just by doing a 30 minute run and eating less. My commute is just that bit further & harder and I just don't seem to be able to get the balance right.

But the input is great - I'm sure I am making it harder than it should be but it's become a bit of a mental block...

Rich158

I think your app is vastly overestimating the calories burnt. I do a 26 mile commute and at a 20mph average I burn about 800 calories according to my Garmin. My old 22 mile commute used to come out at about the same on my old Polar computer and Polar are widely acknowledged to be the most accurate in this area as they have a copyright on the formula for calculating calories.

I'm in a similar situation trying to shift those final few pesky kg. I always find recording your daily food intake a great way to control your eating habits as I feel guilty every time I record a chocolate bar or cake and it ultimately forces me to evaluate whether I realy need half the crap I eat. Just be honest with yourself, you probably only need to reduce your calorie intake slightly to achieve the desired result

rick_chasey

Forget calories.

Want to lose weight?

Always leave the dinner table a little hungry.

meanredspider

Cool - so the calories (as I suspected) are too high. Better estimates?
46 year old, 95kg (kitted out) male, 15 miles each way, 2000ft of climbing on the RT, 17mph avg, HR 160bpm - 500kcals each way?

Rich158

meanredspider wrote:

Cool - so the calories (as I suspected) are too high. Better estimates?
46 year old, 95kg (kitted out) male, 15 miles each way, 2000ft of climbing on the RT, 17mph avg, HR 160bpm - 500kcals each way?

Ok I'm a 42 year old male, 72kg, 26 miles each way, it averages about 900-1000 calories. The pace (16-20mph) only varies the calories by about 100-150, and the fat burning zone sits just under zone 3 which is about 140 bpm for me so your better off taking things slightly easier anyway. If you pro-rata things out I'd use about 520 for your commute so add a few on to account for the extra kg and you probably use about 6-700

bigmat

Just eat a bit less and exercise a bit more, its the easiest thing in the world and I can't for the life of me work out how the diet industry has become so huge. I guess having data and measureable targets helps with the motivation, but the principles are incredibly simple.

Mr Will

The thing that helped me shed over 5 stone was a very simple one: Hunger is not related to calories.

Simply, you will feel hungry when your stomach is empty, whether you need to eat or not. I found a combination if reduced portion size and eating early in the day (so that I was going to bed slightly hungry) just caused the weight to fall off.

If you find yourself hungry after exercise then build that in to your plans. Try setting off without having breakfast (maybe just a banana or similar) and then eating once you have arrived at work. Calorie intake will be the same, but it will control the hunger pangs better.

suzyb

I've started using myfitnesspal as well. Didn't realise it had an app though, sounds handy.

Sadly it's not helping me eat less. The yummyness of food outweighs the guilt of eating too much of it.

I actually found the MyFitnessPal calorie count for my little loop to be pretty close to what my Garmin says I burned. Does that mean they're both wrong or could it be more accurate for some than others.

meanredspider

BigMat wrote:

Just eat a bit less and exercise a bit more, its the easiest thing in the world and I can't for the life of me work out how the diet industry has become so huge. I guess having data and measureable targets helps with the motivation, but the principles are incredibly simple.

Wow - if only my life was that simple. The principles are easy - I shed a couple of stone a few years ago (and kept it off) - but throw into the mix a kid with cancer (with intensive treatment 180 miles away), a challenging and insecure job, the rest of family life and it's just a tiny bit more complicated. Hence trying to get a bit more structure so it kinda manages itself

meanredspider

suzyb wrote:

I've started using myfitnesspal as well. Didn't realise it had an app though, sounds handy.
.

The app is good - love the barcode scanner

Once I've calibrated what I need, I can manage without the app - just need to get the balance right

Rich158

suzyb wrote:

I've started using myfitnesspal as well. Didn't realise it had an app though, sounds handy.

Sadly it's not helping me eat less. The yummyness of food outweighs the guilt of eating too much of it.

I actually found the MyFitnessPal calorie count for my little loop to be pretty close to what my Garmin says I burned. Does that mean they're both wrong or could it be more accurate for some than others.

Unfortunately they're probably both wrong. Because Polar effectively own the equations and supporting data needed to give the most accurate estimate of calories burned everyone else has to make do with what's left and tend to overestimate things somewhat. However as a general rule of thumb most aren't bad unless your trying a very fine balancing act.

Personally I find the best way to estimate things is to weigh myself regularly and keep an eye on the jeans. If my weight is going upwards slightly then I watch what I eat, and if it's pretty much static then I've got things about right. Unfortunately it hasn't gone down for about 6 months. I also generally use common sense, that big pastry when I get into the office and choccy with my mid morning coffee are laden with calories so I rry to keep them to a minimum

joelsim

My very best wishes on every count, even losing some weight.

veronese68

i think dieting is incredibly simple, if you don't need to do it. I don't need to, I'm fortunate. Others may not be so lucky. The diet industry is so big because of various factors associated with the human condition. Most people are lazy and want a product that makes them lose weight without having to work at it. Even if people are prepared to work at it they may need help and guidance in what to do, or moral support.
Trying to work out the right balance of food and exercise can be a bit tricky, especially with other things on a persons mind fighting for attention.
I can't offer any useful advice, but I would say stick to it. I'm sure you'll work it out and get there.
Good luck with everything.

bigmat

meanredspider wrote:

BigMat wrote:

Just eat a bit less and exercise a bit more, its the easiest thing in the world and I can't for the life of me work out how the diet industry has become so huge. I guess having data and measureable targets helps with the motivation, but the principles are incredibly simple.

Wow - if only my life was that simple. The principles are easy - I shed a couple of stone a few years ago (and kept it off) - but throw into the mix a kid with cancer (with intensive treatment 180 miles away), a challenging and insecure job, the rest of family life and it's just a tiny bit more complicated. Hence trying to get a bit more structure so it kinda manages itself

Sorry, that came across a bit off didn't it? I guess I'm maybe lucky in that when I've needed to lose weight I've just done it, but I totally appreciate how life can make things a lot more complicated. I haven't really got much knowledge of dieting to be honest, just a few probably ill-informed opinions, so I'll leave this thread alone!

meanredspider

Thanks all - I'm not normally into "dieting" and have never done any of the fad diets - I just know that I need some guidelines to get it right and help me focus just now because 2011 has been a tough year. Once normal service is resumed I'll be fine. The hospital stuff has disrupted my routines - not least of all the commuting. I've spent 100+ nights in hospital with my son in the last year - which also involves feeding myself from the hospital canteen :? or the WRVS shop - not the healthiest - as well as a combination of boredom and worry. Still, most of that is hopefully behind us and I can get back into a more stable routine - just need to make sure I have a job now.

Thanks for your input - I think I have a balanced plan

Rich158

best of luck meanredspider, I thought my year had been tough but yours puts everything into perspective. Just focus on the little things, cut out that chocolate bar, go for black coffee rather than a late etc and you'll get to where you want to be without too many problems

notsoblue

Good luck MeanRedSpider. Personally I've found that running or distance cycling is the only thing that works if I want to lose weight.

t4tomo

avoid donuts, cheese and pork pies, seperately and especially together.

meanredspider

t4tomo wrote:

avoid donuts, cheese and pork pies, seperately and especially together.

Just thinking about eating those 3 together has killed my appetite!

Thanks for the thoughts - my daughter wrote this which kinda sums it up better than I could http://www.alfa.me.uk/SecondSteps.html

suzyb

During that time they would; remove the bone that held the tumour, drive it to another hospital, blast it with the strongest form of radiotherapy, drive it back and place it back in to Charlie with titanium plates.

:shock:

meanredspider

suzyb wrote:

During that time they would; remove the bone that held the tumour, drive it to another hospital, blast it with the strongest form of radiotherapy, drive it back and place it back in to Charlie with titanium plates.

:shock:

Impressive, huh? They effectively removed half of his pelvis (not the easiest bone to chop out - all sorts going on down there), stuck it in a taxi (I kid you not) and sent it to another site in Glasgow where they nuked everything with high-energy xrays, then sent it back and screwed it back in place with strips of titanium meccano. All of this meant a 20" opening from his groin, up over his hip and back to his coxyx - it's a mighty impressive scar - like a shark bite. The idea is that the body will eventually replace the dead bone with new stuff. He has a bit of nerve damage but we hope that it will repair now he's off the chemo.

veronese68

Wow, I really struggled to read that. I don't like to sit in the office with tears in my eyes, but here I am. That was very well written, I couldn't hope to put my feelings down as eloquently as that.
I hope he picks up quickly now his chemo is over. I remember getting back to normal gradually over a period of time. It's surprising how many things it affects.
I must confess reading about the Alfa cheered me up though, only had a qucik scan. Looks lovely. There's a modified 1750 saloon on Ebay, the subsequent divorce proceedings might make it expensive. Hmmm...

meanredspider

I'm very proud of what she's written and even more proud of the way she's dealt with it and learned from it. We've all learned & changed through this process.

The Alfa - yes, it's a riot to drive - it's taken a bit of a back seat this last year too. The engine blew up twice and I got rear-ended quite badly in a recent race. Fellow racers said "You're very calm about it"
"No-one died" I responded "It's only a car"

davis

Christ she writes well. Don't think I can read that here.

veronese68

I'm sure you're extremely proud. When I started to read that I thought she was a fair bit older. She obviously has a mature head, as she wrote you don't know how you will cope but you do. Because there is no other choice. People told me I was brave to have chemo, nonsense. I'm not brave, what are the alternatives.
My Grandad in Italy was an engineer for Alfa in the early days. Actually designed the badge. A journalist 'borrowed' the drawings he had in the '70s to make copies for an article. They never came back. I'd love to have them. We're probably boring people with Alfa talk on a cycling forum.

Kieran_Burns

I was doing absolutely fine until i got to

I’ve learnt that life is tough, nobody can deny that. Some people have a bumpier ride than others, but sometimes we just need to be grateful that we are here for the ride.

and then I blubbed

meanredspider

I still can't read it without blubbing. Seeing the pain one child is going through related to another child and your own pain & experience - I can't imagine a time when I won't blub. One of the cancer charities is negotiating with a Sunday paper to do an article based around the essay.

Veronese68, glad you went throught it well. As you say, you aren't offered a whole load of alternatives. You have to stay positive else how do you cope? I've been really grateful for all the support we've received - much of it from people I don't know. Fearne Cotton and her dad, Mick, have been brilliant, for instance. I've learned so much about how to deal with people going through similar crises from my own experience too.

gasman_dave

Meanredspider you have two remarkable children. I would challenge anyone with or without kids to read that essay by your daughter and not cry. I look after adults in theatre and ITU with cancers and it doesn't affect me as much as stories like that. It sounds like your family is coming to a bit of a new beginning.

As to your original question regarding weight loss, calories in and calories burned is only a small part of the equation.

Harder exercise will still burn fat as the muscles need fat burning to work for the longer term. Glycogen is a fast-reactive fuel. I think the theory about exercising when hungry is about retraining your muscle to work on body fat stores and improve liver glycogen usage. I think this is probably difficult to prove, though.

What does work, in my experience, is the Gi (glycaemic index) Diet. If you must eat carbs, eat ones which are broken down slowly. High fibre cereals, porridge, less bread and cakes, higher protein content food. This stops the highs and lows of blood sugar and it is mainly low blood sugar levels which cause hunger. Have some porridge when you arrive at work - you won't feel as hungry later in the day.

By the way, avoid diet drinks. Your body thinks they contain sugar, so it produces insulin, dropping your blood sugar and thus giving you the munchies 20 - 30 minutes later, making you snack. Well suppressed evidence, I believe. Allegedly.