Folding bike choice?

JonEdwards

So my commute is about to change from a thrash across London every day to a once a week 2 hour train journey, plus Kings X-> Wandsworth.

So I'm looking at retiring the fixie and getting some kind of folder.

Now Bromptons seem the popular choice,(probably an S1L or an S2L) but a) what else is there, b) I've never ridden anything with smaller than 26" wheels and like a fairly racy position. c) anything specific to look for if I get a second hand one?

Also is the "lightweight" frame upgrade package worth the extra?

From what I've heard/read, Bromptons win for foldability, but there are plenty of others out there that ride better - had a quick sit on a Dahon Speed Pro and that fitted almost normally, but the folded package was not neat at all!

Comments & ideas?

Cheers,

Jon

ex-pat scot

Sorry no idea on how far that commute is.

I had a S2-LX Brompton and it was fab.
Lightweight was pretty nifty - especially if you've got to manhandle on / off trains at all. The carried weight of a B can be tiring so make sure you go for lightweight version if this is likely to be a concern. (it's also nice to havea a brushed titanium fork & triangle, as there's less to corrode or scratch).

fnegroni

I have a Dahon Mu p8.
20 inch tyres, alluminium frame, 8 derailer gears with a nice enough cassette range which you can change for £20 if you need to.
Purchased it for £440 which made it a no brainer for me.
Yes it is not as compact as a Brompton, and it does not fold as neatly.
But, I can fit my full size Altura 56 Litre pannier bags and rack top bag on it, without issues of pedal/bag interference. I can also put a bottle cage on the top tube.
It weighs 11 Kgs (without pedals nor accessories) which makes up for the folded package size.
Use it regularly on South West and SouthEastern trains every week and if push comes to shovel, i can just stand with the bike in between my legs.
It rides very nicely indeed and best of all, it comes with Schwalbe Marathon Supreme as standard, and I can also get 20 inch Schwalbe Winters with studs so the winter commute is also sorted.

All wheels are quick release and maintenance should not be an issue, the manual that comes with the bike describes what to do in extensive detail.

I used to have a 16 inch compact folding bike, and I know that 16 inch does help in the size department, but 16 inch wheels are very small and offer limited choice in the tyre department. The handling can be skittish in the wet more so than 20 inch but that depends on so many variables it is probably best left to the individual combination and rider to decide.

For me the best thing is that I would have no problem riding the 32 mile return trip commute to the office if that was to be necessary with this Dahon, when normally I would use my 26 inch hybrid.

iPete

There's a choice when it comes to folders?

Oh lightweight vs normal!

Personally, not worth the extra lump of cash but I tend to pootle on my Brompton, its for cruising about in casual clothing not getting sweaty.

bromyG

If you're going on a train it should be a Brompton every time!

I have a Brompton S6L (6 gears, straight bars) and it's great for thrashing across town.

Nothing I have seen on my train commute folds as well or as neatly as a Brompton and I can always find a space for it without being confined to specific cycle areas which are usually filled with less compact bikes.

The 16" wheels did take a bit of getting used to at first, but with regular commuting confidence soon accumulates.

The standard Brompton is not as light as you might like, but manageable over the few feet of platforms/escalators/stairs etc. you may have to negotiate from or to the train.

fnegroni

bromyG wrote:

If you're going on a train it should be a Brompton every time!

I think you are overestimating the size of a 20 inch Dahon or Tern.

Hobbers85

I have a Dahon Mu Sl 2009, which at the time was the lightest and fastest folder available to the market.

I used it to commute from Clapham to Piccadilly so wanted something fast so I could keep up with "normal" bikes. It weighs 8.7kg so easy to travel with but the fold is not as neat/compact as a Brompton.

I think it depends whether you're more interested in speed (Dahon) or fold/friendliest train use (Brompton).

MichaelW

If you are travelling on a crowded commuter train Brommies are best.
If you're on a less crowded train but still need something carryable and storable, most of the 20" Dahons (Birdy's + other types) will fit the bill.
You can get 26" folders but they are not really suitable for rush hr commuter travel.

rolf_f

We have a couple of Dahons at work. Apparently they ride better than Bromptons - I hope so because if they don't, they have nothing going for them. The fold is awkward and poorly designed - I rarely get the magnets to connect on closing the frame halves together no matter what I do. When you drop down the seat post and rest the bike on the ground, when you lift the bike the pump handle drops out of the seat post because the motion required to release it is the same as it gets when you rest it on the ground.

Then there is the steering post quick release. This is perforated to make it look cool but actually be weak. On one of ours, the release is bent like a banana as a result of lots of people desperately trying (unsuccessfully) to stop the handlebars swivelling on the steering column. Still, five degrees plus of lateral slack in the steering is certainly interesting when manouvering in tight spaces.

The 8 speed hub gear is reliable but makes for a slow bike (bottom gear too high, top gear too low) which is very interesting in cross winds. However, I have ridden one from Warrington to Manchester and it was OK! Quite enjoyed that (aside from the pump being Schrader and the inner tubes presta and having a puncture!).

And they haven't done many miles at all. I don't mind them as an occasional thing for visiting our offices but to use one on a daily basis would drive me insane. There is no real design flair - it is really just like a Moulton with a load of random hinges slung in any old how in the hope that it will all fold up nicely. It doesn't.

yocto

If money is no object I would recommend a Birdy. They come with various options to suit budget and taste.

Check here for a full list of options: http://www.kinetics.org.uk/html/accessories.shtml
Also Bikefix in London have them, so you could have a test try. The fold is not intuitive but once you get used it, it is very easy and can be done very quickly, <10 seconds. The Birdy has front and rear suspension which is designed to soak up road bumps(not downhill riding!) and it offers a very plush ride. Great for London roads. This is also important for small wheels as they don’t absorb bumps like regular wheels and therefore offer a much harsher ride (road buzz, etc) It also folds down to a decent size (compared to say Dahon). I have one in my fleet.

Bromptons are great, built very well, British, look good etc. However, I’m not a fan, only because everyone has got one! Do note they offer the best/ smallest folded package and it is no wonder they are so popular.

Dahon have a large selection. I have a Speed Pro TT. This is a great bike with plenty of gears, good looks etc. Not such a convenient fold/ package, particularly with the bullhorn bars. If the train (public transport) you’ll be taking it on is going to be packed, this is going to get in the way and will be a hassle.

There is a new company around called Tern, which is a breakaway company form Dahon, their range looks very good (although very similar to Dahon). The hinges look stronger and designs better. May be worth giving them a look, though I don’t think there are any dealers yet. Perhaps at the beginning of next year.

If Birdy is out of your budget, I think you can’t go wrong with a Brompton. People have gone touring/ Audax with theirs with no complaints!!

fnegroni

Rolf F wrote:

On one of ours, the release is bent like a banana as a result of lots of people desperately trying (unsuccessfully) to stop the handlebars swivelling on the steering column.

Yes, the telescopic handle post does suffer from that unfortunately. Not really that big a deal, and really only happens when the post is extended rather than in its lower setting.
The reason behind the telescopic post was to allow the steering column to be folded to the inside the folded bike. If you lower the post all the way down when unfolded, the 'straightness' issue becomes much less noticeable. I certainly don't find it a problem.
You can always opt for Dahons with non telescopic handleposts.

The 8 speed hub gear is reliable but makes for a slow bike (bottom gear too high, top gear too low) which is very interesting in cross winds

Exactly the reason why I would never buy a bike with hub gears: for the simple fact that cassettes allow for a much greater choice.

(aside from the pump being Schrader and the inner tubes presta and having a puncture!).

The seat post pump is suppsed to come with the presta to schraeder adapter screwed on already. If it doesn't someone nicked it.

And they haven't done many miles at all. I don't mind them as an occasional thing for visiting our offices but to use one on a daily basis would drive me insane. There is no real design flair - it is really just like a Moulton with a load of random hinges slung in any old how in the hope that it will all fold up nicely. It doesn't.

I am sorry you had a bad experience. Maybe older Dahons weren't that great.

I bought mine recently, it folds up nicely, the magnetix system works fine for me so far I have done just under 100 miles with it in less than a month (I usually commute on a hybrid).
Recently had to take it on a fairly crowded train where I folded it in about 10 seconds as the train was about to depart and as I climbed on the train I put it between my legs: it is actually narrower than the bromptons we have at work and I do have the rack fitted.

I do like Bromptons and I really see their advantages, but for me they will remain a "folded" bike.

iPete

yocto wrote:

The Birdy has front and rear suspension which is designed to soak up road bumps(not downhill riding!) and it offers a very plush ride. Great for London roads.
!

Each to their own, call me odd but the only change I've made to my Brompton was to the suspension, much prefer the hard block and no bouncing.

rolf_f

fnegroni wrote:

I am sorry you had a bad experience. Maybe older Dahons weren't that great.

Probably about 4 years old or so. I reckon it might be one of these - it's pretty close:



The quick release of death is the one half way up the steering column. The fold pic shows how the end of the pump can be seen at the bottom of the seat post - ready to drop out as soon as the bike is lifted.

shouldbeinbed

yocto wrote:

If money is no object I would recommend a Birdy. They come with various options to suit budget and taste.

Check here for a full list of options: http://www.kinetics.org.uk/html/accessories.shtml
Also Bikefix in London have them, so you could have a test try. The fold is not intuitive but once you get used it, it is very easy and can be done very quickly, <10 seconds. The Birdy has front and rear suspension which is designed to soak up road bumps(not downhill riding!) and it offers a very plush ride. Great for London roads. This is also important for small wheels as they don’t absorb bumps like regular wheels and therefore offer a much harsher ride (road buzz, etc) It also folds down to a decent size (compared to say Dahon). I have one in my fleet.

Bromptons are great, built very well, British, look good etc. However, I’m not a fan, only because everyone has got one! Do note they offer the best/ smallest folded package and it is no wonder they are so popular.

Dahon have a large selection. I have a Speed Pro TT. This is a great bike with plenty of gears, good looks etc. Not such a convenient fold/ package, particularly with the bullhorn bars. If the train (public transport) you’ll be taking it on is going to be packed, this is going to get in the way and will be a hassle.

There is a new company around called Tern, which is a breakaway company form Dahon, their range looks very good (although very similar to Dahon). The hinges look stronger and designs better. May be worth giving them a look, though I don’t think there are any dealers yet. Perhaps at the beginning of next year.

If Birdy is out of your budget, I think you can’t go wrong with a Brompton. People have gone touring/ Audax with theirs with no complaints!!

Agree with this, I fight shy of recommending Birdys as they're ludicrously expensive and R&M have a somewhat difficult reputation amongst retailers.

I have had my birdy blue for nearly 10 years (and a red before that) it is still used very regularly in preference or as an equal to larger wheel fixed frame bikes.

I test rode lots when buying initially and the Birdy blew the others out of the water completely as a bike you would ride first and could fold when needed. This was my intention though and is my gripe with Brompton, I buy my bikes to ride, not to marvel at the cleveness of when they're not being ridden.

That said though, the fold is more innovative in my opinion as it hinges both wheels under the middle maintaining rigidity throughout rather than cutting the 'crossbar' in half

Mine has done big daily mileages & touring hols and lived with me up and down the pennines through lots of summers, winters and all weathers in between

In terms of overall VFM my Birdy has been utterly superb, its outlasted many other bikes I've had and is as good/fun as the day I got it but it was only through a legacy that I could afford to take the plunge in the first place

t4tomo

Brompton every time, with S type bars as they give the most direct steering, titantium if you can afford it. choose your gears depending on what you're going to do with it.

It gives a cracking ride (yes different to a full size bike but good in its own right) and the rear suspension is a godsend on our crap british roads, which negates the small wheels in the comfort aspect.

Not great for climbing though as that rear block does tend to bounce a bit, still people do take them up the alps so they can't be all bad.

cloggsy

I wanted one of these, but can't seem to find one in the UK...

shouldbeinbed

cloggsy wrote:

I wanted one of these, but can't seem to find one in the UK...

if you've not already done so, have a look at the Airnimal range

munchertoo

I went from a Brompton (5 years) to an Oyama Crosstown. Like going from a Morris Minor to a Porsche. I loved the Brommie, but the OC is far lighter, handles better, has 18 spd Tiagra, cost me £400 brand new, and fits like a proper roadbike. Stock tyres weren't brilliant, but OK, so I shoved some 1.75 Schwalbe Marathons on which make is super smooth, other than that, it's fab.

rolf_f

t4tomo wrote:

Brompton every time, with S type bars as they give the most direct steering, titantium if you can afford it. choose your gears depending on what you're going to do with it.

It gives a cracking ride (yes different to a full size bike but good in its own right) and the rear suspension is a godsend on our crap british roads, which negates the small wheels in the comfort aspect.

Not great for climbing though as that rear block does tend to bounce a bit, still people do take them up the alps so they can't be all bad.

Here is a gent with a Ti Brompton we found at 14,000 feet at the top of Mt Evans, Colorado. Rather more than an Alp!

stuaff

Cloggsy: The 'old' Dahon Speed Pro TT is a lovely bit of kit, Fudges still have a few at £1049. The Vector X27h is not available in the UK, at least for the forseeable future, due to various legal & distribution issues). However the Tern Verge X30h (a big improvement even over the Vector frame, plus 10 speed Ultegra) will be on sale early next year, I'd say wait for that...

bikeboon

fnegroni wrote:

I have a Dahon Mu p8.
20 inch tyres, alluminium frame, 8 derailer gears with a nice enough cassette range which you can change for £20 if you need to.
Purchased it for £440 which made it a no brainer for me.

+1 for Dahon. The ride quality of 16" (Brommies) and 20" (most Dahons) is miles apart. 20" Dahons feel solid on the straights and sufficiently stable in turns, which I think no-one can truthfully say of Brommies.

If the folded size is the priority no other bike can beat a Brommie. Mind you, Brommie's chain goes on the inside of the package, which is not the case for Dahons (Hence Dahons on the tube: not really an option!). The latter are much harder to roll wherever you need to roll them (Kings X etc). Well, I don't use trains and hence Dahon ticks all the boxes, including the budget.

fnegroni

StuAff wrote:

Cloggsy: The 'old' Dahon Speed Pro TT is a lovely bit of kit, Fudges still have a few at £1049. The Vector X27h is not available in the UK, at least for the forseeable future, due to various legal & distribution issues). However the Tern Verge X30h (a big improvement even over the Vector frame, plus 10 speed Ultegra) will be on sale early next year, I'd say wait for that...

I would have opted for a Tern Link P9 if it had been available now. The prices are pretty similar:

http://road.cc/content/news/46295-tern- ... ans-cycles

UK price list from 1st January 2012

Verge X30 £1,599.99
Verge X20 £2,299.99
Verge X10 £1,349.99
Verge S11i £1,599.99
Verge Duo £699.99
Verge P18 £899.99
Link P9 P £629.99
Link P7i £799.99
Link P24h £799.99
Link D8 D £449.99
Link D7i £629.99
Link Uno £449.99
Link C7 C £349.99
Joe P24 P £629.99
Joe D24 D £499.99
Joe C21 C £399.99
Eclipse P9 £799.99

fnegroni

StuAff wrote:

Cloggsy: The 'old' Dahon Speed Pro TT is a lovely bit of kit, Fudges still have a few at £1049. The Vector X27h is not available in the UK, at least for the forseeable future, due to various legal & distribution issues). However the Tern Verge X30h (a big improvement even over the Vector frame, plus 10 speed Ultegra) will be on sale early next year, I'd say wait for that...

I would have opted for a Tern Link P9 if it had been available now. The prices are pretty similar:

http://road.cc/content/news/46295-tern- ... ans-cycles

UK price list from 1st January 2012

Verge X30 £1,599.99
Verge X20 £2,299.99
Verge X10 £1,349.99
Verge S11i £1,599.99
Verge Duo £699.99
Verge P18 £899.99
Link P9 P £629.99
Link P7i £799.99
Link P24h £799.99
Link D8 D £449.99
Link D7i £629.99
Link Uno £449.99
Link C7 C £349.99
Joe P24 P £629.99
Joe D24 D £499.99
Joe C21 C £399.99
Eclipse P9 £799.99

fnegroni

StuAff wrote:

Cloggsy: The 'old' Dahon Speed Pro TT is a lovely bit of kit, Fudges still have a few at £1049. The Vector X27h is not available in the UK, at least for the forseeable future, due to various legal & distribution issues). However the Tern Verge X30h (a big improvement even over the Vector frame, plus 10 speed Ultegra) will be on sale early next year, I'd say wait for that...

I would have opted for a Tern Link P9 if it had been available now. The prices are pretty similar:

http://road.cc/content/news/46295-tern- ... ans-cycles

UK price list from 1st January 2012

Verge X30 £1,599.99
Verge X20 £2,299.99
Verge X10 £1,349.99
Verge S11i £1,599.99
Verge Duo £699.99
Verge P18 £899.99
Link P9 P £629.99
Link P7i £799.99
Link P24h £799.99
Link D8 D £449.99
Link D7i £629.99
Link Uno £449.99
Link C7 C £349.99
Joe P24 P £629.99
Joe D24 D £499.99
Joe C21 C £399.99
Eclipse P9 £799.99