Shifting repair advice please

Thebigbee

Hi,

Was on a trip home of about 10 miles the other day on my Spesh Allez triple. As I was going down the hump of a bridge I attempted to shift up into the largest front ring.

It got stuck and from then on I was restricted to the middle ring, just wouldn't shift up.

I got to a bike shop and asked them to have a look at it as I was concerned that I still had about 7 miles to go, and that I had bent a derailleur.

The guy got it on the workstand and said that they were fine. He then went about tightening things here and there and after about 2 minutes it seemed to be shifting OK.

I paid him £5 for his 2 minutes work and set off on my journey. Although I could just about get into all gears I found it incrdibly "tight" whatever he had done. It was also very crunchy, which I put down to the bike being slightly dirty.

I meticulously cleaned the drive train and re lubed when I got home. The bike is only about 6 months old, if that.

I did about 8 miles on it without issue.

However - I took it out about 7.15PM today - Friday.

Did about 1/4 of a mile and shifted down into granny ring because of a hill.

Since that shift - I cannot even get into the middle ring. Basically the left shifter tries pushing up and gets no where!

Can anyone help with what tweaks I need to be making - in plain English please?

Any advice or suggestions received with many thanks.

Cheers

CiB

What shifters? Indexed?

The likeliest that springs to mind is the cable isn't tight in the clamp on the front mech, it's slipped through so the indexing has reached its end stop whilst still on the lowest gear ring. Or it's just plain old jammed up.

You can tell if it's jammed by trying to push it across with your hand - it'll be tough but quite possible. If it's jammed you need to inspect it to see what's causing it ; maybe a stone in there or some such.

If not, try re-indexing it. Undo the cable from the front mech, pull the end through whilst changing down and see if the shifter clicks down to the end of the ratchet, releasing bit of cable to you as you do it. Clamp the cable back in with cable now just having the smallest amount of slack (you should be on the smallest ring at this stage), then see if it clicks up.

Thebigbee

Hi,

Yes I am assuming they are indexed!

It is this bike. http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/ ... -11-42800/

Thanks a lot for the advice. I need to get it on the "Lidl" workstand and try things out I guess.

Just needed some plain English advice.

Too dark now to do it on that. But the bike is inside, thanks to those lovely bike thieves and burglars - bring back hard labour, bread and water and no perks.. at the least!

Anyway - the left hand shifter - half heartedly - attempts to adjust the front derailleur, but basically does nothing - and is incredibly loose.

I am such a dunce that I can't work out what needs tightening!!

Would love to go on a course - but they seem to start at £50 to let you know how to remove your wheel and fix a puncture, or fit a saddle - £150 to teach you slightly more basic stuff, like about gears!

Should be on bloody Dragon's Den. Full day course about bike maintenance. £75 a day - classes up to 20 people = £1500 a day.

Over a year - on one Saturday = £78,000 a year for one day a week. Double that over a weekend. No real overheads.

Is that not a good business proposition - especially if it was rolled out nationwide?...

Oh well!!

Thanks for any free advice!!

CiB

Trouble is you're not saying what's loose. The shifter itself? The cable in it? Mech? Hard to offer an opinion without knowing but if it is loose all you need to do is drop the wheel out, squeeze the brakes full on and tighten up the screw hiding behind the lever.

Tuition is free - Youtube has a billion videos of how to sort out your bike, Sheldon Brown is a fantastic resource and I've never used it but I gather that the Park Tools is a hive of useful info.

It's not rocket science though - if you feel a bit brave and have a multitool & a few other tools you can probably take it apart, noting where things go separately on a piece of paper if necessary, then discover how easy it all is by putting back together again.

Bike - some levers, a few cogs and some cables. Doddle, once you take one apart.

Thebigbee

CiB - Thanks for the kick up the ass!

I know it isn't rocket science. I seem to know the theory about most building, electrical, plumbing jobs.

I just don't have the confidence to try anything out.

I have a workstand, how wrong can it really go?!!

I have just noticed the problem with the shifting at the front. Cable is looser than.. well - I shan't say that!

I have no idea how it has got like that when the professional mechanic apparently checked all them the other day, and IMO overtightened everything.

Oh well.. it's a start!

Cheers

desweller

Start by checking inside the shifter, verify cable integrity (i.e. no fraying or breaks), then unclamp the cable from the derailleur, remove it from the shifter and establish if the shifter operates cleanly without the cable in it.

That's what I would start out with.

arthur_scrimshaw

if it's only 6 months old take it back to the shop you bought it from.

desweller

Arthur Scrimshaw wrote:

if it's only 6 months old take it back to the shop you bought it from.

See, although that's a great idea in theory, often the problem is that many bike mechanics have the mechanical sympathy of a brain damaged ape with a 40lb lump hammer. It sounds like his bike shop has already had a go and failed to sort it out. It's worth learning how to avoid being dependant on your LBS.

arthur_scrimshaw

DesWeller wrote:

Arthur Scrimshaw wrote:

if it's only 6 months old take it back to the shop you bought it from.

See, although that's a great idea in theory, often the problem is that many bike mechanics have the mechanical sympathy of a brain damaged ape with a 40lb lump hammer. It sounds like his bike shop has already had a go and failed to sort it out. It's worth learning how to avoid being dependant on your LBS.

I've also found it a great idea in practice, depends on your lbs. If it's 6 months old then and been fine until now it's a bit harsh to label his lbs mechanics apes. I do agree it's best to learn how to be independent but as the bike's still under warranty (?) it's worth giving them a shot.
He said 'a' bike shop, not necessarily the one he bought it from.

arthur_scrimshaw

double post

wombar

It doesn't sound like you can make it any worse having a go, so I'd just be brave and get it on the stand. Worst comes to worst, pop it back down to your LBS.

It's most likely going to be one of two things.

1. Cable too slack.
2. Cable jammed in shifter.

Either way, you'll have to undo the front derailleur from the cable, so I'd do the following.

1. Shift down to your granny ring at front and back. (i.e. small front, big back).
2. Undo cable on front derailleur.
3. Grab hold of cable and pull it taut and keep hold of it. Just enough so there's some tension.
4. Shift up with the left shifter. If you get a click, your shifter is probably fine. Shift back down, pull the cable taut and re-attach. Hopefully that will have sorted it.

If you don't get a click, chances are the cable is jammed somewhere inside the shifter. This means folding back the hood, and finding out where the jam is. Then pull cable taut and reattach.

You don't need a course to learn this stuff, just some patience and ideally a laptop to watch while you've got the bike in front of you.

desweller

Arthur Scrimshaw wrote:

DesWeller wrote:

Arthur Scrimshaw wrote:

if it's only 6 months old take it back to the shop you bought it from.

See, although that's a great idea in theory, often the problem is that many bike mechanics have the mechanical sympathy of a brain damaged ape with a 40lb lump hammer. It sounds like his bike shop has already had a go and failed to sort it out. It's worth learning how to avoid being dependant on your LBS.

I've also found it a great idea in practice, depends on your lbs. If it's 6 months old then and been fine until now it's a bit harsh to label his lbs mechanics apes.

I s'pose.

My experiences with the technical capabilities of the employees of bike shops have been, shall we say, 'mixed' at best.

Thebigbee

Arthur Scrimshaw wrote:

if it's only 6 months old take it back to the shop you bought it from.

Would do that without hesitation. Unfortunately it was an insurance replacement bought blind, online.

And from initial thoughts of, "this bike is great" I seem to have had constant problems with it - that have been rectified at my cost.

It was put together very shoddily for a start.

The problems with the shifting as outlined, started about 7 miles from home. Called into a LBS who charged me £5 for 2 minutes "work".

Seems to have got even worse because of their "expertise" that works out at £150 an hour!

In fairness he did say that I could bring it back in if it needed more adjustment. I let him know that I lived 7 miles away so wouldn't be exactly practical. I am sure I heard a snigger!

Whatever - I would just like to be able to identify the problem myself and fix.

Too drunk to even attempt now - but thanks for all the advice and suggestions. Will try tomorrow!

Thebigbee

wombar wrote:

It doesn't sound like you can make it any worse having a go, so I'd just be brave and get it on the stand. Worst comes to worst, pop it back down to your LBS.

It's most likely going to be one of two things.

1. Cable too slack.
2. Cable jammed in shifter.

Either way, you'll have to undo the front derailleur from the cable, so I'd do the following.

1. Shift down to your granny ring at front and back. (i.e. small front, big back).
2. Undo cable on front derailleur.
3. Grab hold of cable and pull it taut and keep hold of it. Just enough so there's some tension.
4. Shift up with the left shifter. If you get a click, your shifter is probably fine. Shift back down, pull the cable taut and re-attach. Hopefully that will have sorted it.

If you don't get a click, chances are the cable is jammed somewhere inside the shifter. This means folding back the hood, and finding out where the jam is. Then pull cable taut and reattach.

You don't need a course to learn this stuff, just some patience and ideally a laptop to watch while you've got the bike in front of you.

Cheers - will try tomorrow when a bit more up for it.

Appreciate the plain english explanation. When the bike is off the ground it just looks so simple. And it all is, if you know what the hell you are doing to start off!

Will try tomorrow. I pulled the cable taught and thought it would help shifting - it didn't.

Will update later when on stand and not too pi55edd!

Cheers!

wombar

Haha, yep don't drink DIY, it never turns out well

Just take your time, and don't be afraid to take it down your LBS if things do go wrong. This is something they should be able to fix easily, because they do this for 8 hours a day. Start off doing little jobs and work your way up to doing it all yourself. That's what I (and a lot of other people here on BR) have done. You've got a work stand, so that's half the battle won already.

With front derailleurs it's all about getting the initial cable tension right. If you have a barrel adjuster/tube adjuster (a little screw thingy) screw it all the way in before you re-attach the cable(make sure its the one for the front and not the rear;)). If you don't, don't worry about it they're not essential.

Then you want to pull the cable pretty taut as you're reclamping it to the derailleur. You don't want to be killing yourself to get it tight, but it needs to have a decent amount of tension on it to statrt with.

Thebigbee

Update -

Just had a quick glance at the bike to see if anything was immediately obvious.

Well it bloody well was!

I noticed the height of the front derailleur and it wasn't even higher than the front big ring - so there was no chance it was ever going to get on it.

What I find bizarre is how the hell it actually "slipped" down that far. IMO that shouldn't have even had a possibility of happening. I may be wrong.

Anyhow - I raised the front derailleur so that there is clearance to actually move the chain up the rings.

Just tested out for 5 mins. Can get into the middle ring - which I guess is a 50% improvement.

I can go through the gears on the back albeit a lot more "crunchy" than it was previously.

However I cannot get into the big ring at all, even though the shifter is apparently pushing the derailleur over it - with ease - the chain just doesn't move.

Any advice on the next course of action based on the description of my updated problem received with many thanks!

I know I am a bit - actually a total - dunce - but I would just like to be able to, at least attempt, basic repairs and learn a bit.

Cheers

nochekmate

All down to cable tension now me thinks - see earlier postings. You may also wish to look at the limit screws on the front mech - Google it all.

Good luck

wombar

Did you detach the cable from the derailleur and re-tension it?

CiB

I'm agog now. Does it work?

If not and you've moved the front mech you might be better off starting from scratch.

Read through all of the above and have another go. The only things that will normally stop the chain getting to the big ring are either the position of the mech on the frame, the indexing or the limit screws being wrong. I'd check all three of these and then start from scratch, and if you can, take the chain off (or move it out of the way off the rings) so that you can more easily check the range of movement that the mech has.