Night riding.... Best light configuration?

junglist_matty
junglist_matty Posts: 1,731
edited September 2011 in MTB general
I've got a nice flood light (MJ-872) and a more spot like T6-XML (from China; not yet arrived). What is the best way to run the lights?

1. Spot on helmet, Flood on bars
2. Flood on bars, Spot on helmet

Thanks...

Comments

  • bamba
    bamba Posts: 856
    option 2
    My Trance
  • DodgeT
    DodgeT Posts: 2,255
    junglist_matty wrote:
    I've got a nice flood light (MJ-872) and a more spot like T6-XML (from China; not yet arrived). What is the best way to run the lights?

    1. Spot on helmet, Flood on bars
    2. Flood on bars, Spot on helmet

    Thanks...

    1 & 2 :)
  • VWsurfbum
    VWsurfbum Posts: 7,881
    bamba wrote:
    option 2
    this
    Kazza the Tranny
    Now for sale Fatty
  • DodgeT
    DodgeT Posts: 2,255
    Is it only me who is seeing this.... 1 & 2 are the same.
  • VWsurfbum
    VWsurfbum Posts: 7,881
    DodgeT wrote:
    Is it only me who is seeing this.... 1 & 2 are the same.
    ha ha i just read it back and your right! :lol:
    Kazza the Tranny
    Now for sale Fatty
  • DodgeT
    DodgeT Posts: 2,255
    Its one of those times when you see what you want to see, I had originally wrote #2, then actually read the post properly and realised :)
  • junglist_matty
    junglist_matty Posts: 1,731
    Brilliant! ...I wandered how long (if any time at all) it would take before someone noticed what I'd written!!!

    On a serious note, I'm planning to use spot on the helmet and flood on the bars (how'd you guess!?) Just seems like the most sensible option to me...


    Light arrived this morning, will have to try out the combo now :) Hopefully will be much better going round the sharp berms I'll be able to see the exit rather than guessing!
  • diy
    diy Posts: 6,473
    It depends how long you intend to ride.

    For short rides <2-3 hours spot on the lid is good, flood on the bars.

    For longer rides this will drive you insane.

    Imagine every where you look - you see a bright white hotspot.

    One of the advantages of using elastic on the lid mound is that I can have my lights set to align to a single spot or a parallel flood with a flick. I find this helps give my eyes a rest from staring at "the sun" all night.

    IMO you definitely want your 872 on the bars.
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  • DodgeT
    DodgeT Posts: 2,255
    Also to mention, if its raining I wouldn't recommend one on the lid.
    I tried it with my dx xml t6 and I could only liken it to being in hypersapce mode, with the light flashing back off the rain right in front of my eyes. It made me feel sick very quickly.
  • guy72277
    guy72277 Posts: 74
    I'd say if you have a spot, you have a badly-designed mountain bike light. As someone said somewhere on internet, "who want's to be chasing a dustbin lid of light?". I prefer a helmet light which gives a decent spread, which is what they should do. It's high up so you get a better view of the bumps on the ground whereas a light down on the bars just gives a pool of darkness behind low objects. Also being able to direct the light is far more important both so you can see where you want and also not blind motorists, if you're on the road. Why buy two average lights when you can get one really good one?

    I have a Hope Vision 2 which I have been using for night MTBing for a couple of years and it fits the bill. Will be using it this evening for a 31k nightride.

    Agree though that in heavy rain a helmet light is not ideal, but fog is even worse (but handlebar lights would be just as bad).

    Here are some light reviews, if you're interested - click through to the full reviews after the light name: http://reviews.mtbr.com/2011-bike-lights-shootout
  • diy
    diy Posts: 6,473
    Agree, if you only have a <4-500 Lumen light then you want it reasonably floody and on your head where you can use every single lumen.

    Ideally though you want 2 sources, ideally 3.

    3 sources lets your spread the light out as much as possible to remove shadows. 2 gives the ability to light where you look as well as lighting where you are going.

    2 also gives you no single point of failure.
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  • guy72277
    guy72277 Posts: 74
    I agree you get some strange shadows with just one light, but is the problem really solved with three lights? Surely as a person on an mtb, you're never going to get that much spread on your lighting (absolute max 60cms on the handle bars and probably about 1m between handle bars and a head lamp). That's a lot of battery packs to carry around too.

    I get your point on having a back-up if one fails. I once rode half an hour through the woods with the lamp in (nearly-dead) flashing mode before it gave up ten mins from home. Bright, Bright, Bright, Blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaak. Not easy.....
  • junglist_matty
    junglist_matty Posts: 1,731
    guy72277 wrote:
    I'd say if you have a spot, you have a badly-designed mountain bike light. As someone said somewhere on internet, "who want's to be chasing a dustbin lid of light?".

    For £30 from China, what do you expect? I'm just looking for something that will light up where my eyes are pointing for one thing; going round sharp corners so I can spot the exit line; I don't need a £300 branded light for that... a £30 nice bit of illumination will do me fine.
    guy72277 wrote:
    I prefer a helmet light which gives a decent spread, which is what they should do. It's high up so you get a better view of the bumps on the ground whereas a light down on the bars just gives a pool of darkness behind low objects.

    I'm not freeriding in the dark; there's no chance of some 4ft+ drop coming round the next corner (unless someone's been out digging holes) on the few night rides I've done now, I've had no problem; where we ride, the trail has been perfectly lit thanks to the MJ-872 mounted on the bars.
    guy72277 wrote:
    Also being able to direct the light is far more important both so you can see where you want and also not blind motorists, if you're on the road.

    Not planning on riding my MTB on the road and if I do happen to ride on the road, I simply put the light on low power setting and point it towards the ground and I can see where I'm going quite well enough without blinding anyone in the process; don't really need a second head torch for riding on the road so that will be switched off to save battery.
    guy72277 wrote:
    Why buy two average lights when you can get one really good one?

    Because two "average" lights are better than one branded one that you call "really good" and still a hell of a lot cheaper.
    guy72277 wrote:
    I have a Hope Vision 2

    Thanks for telling me
    guy72277 wrote:
    which I have been using for night MTBing for a couple of years and it fits the bill. Will be using it this evening for a 31k nightride.

    That's also nice for you and I genuinely hope you have a good ride tonight... although why you needed to put in this thread I don't really know,
    guy72277 wrote:
    Agree though that in heavy rain a helmet light is not ideal, but fog is even worse (but handlebar lights would be just as bad).

    I was out on Tuesday night and it rained for the entire 2 hour ride, although the rain reflections didn't bother me one bit, in fact, I don't think I even noticed them; granted I wasn't using a helmet light, but the three other guys I was riding with all had "average" helmet lights and not one of them mentioned it....

    guy72277 wrote:
    Here are some light reviews, if you're interested - click through to the full reviews after the light name: http://reviews.mtbr.com/2011-bike-lights-shootout

    Thanks, but I'm simply not that interested to pay way over the mark for a Hope light when I already have two alternative "average" lights that are just as, if not more, powerful and a fraction of the price.
  • supersonic
    supersonic Posts: 82,708
    Hope Vision 2 is about the worst light I have ever seen for the money. Low output, low run times, and is actually quite a spot in itself.

    For a fifth of the price I'd get the XML T6 lamp if I wanted a more of a spot type lamp - twice the output, longer runtimes.
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  • diy
    diy Posts: 6,473
    junglist_matty - apples and oranges mate, You have a 2K lumen set-up guy72277 has a 480 Lumen set-up there is a world of difference between the two.

    Yours will turn night in to day, everything in front of you will be illuminated. His will light up where he is going and all around will be dark. Its a totally different experience, your eyes will see different things.

    My first set of lights were 200 lumen and while I had 4, I can remember just how different it was to my current setup. So while 800 Lumen is not the same as 480, I can see what guy means.

    I agree with Super on the quality of the hope lights too. Same for Exposure. I'd only add that you don't actually need to spend 30 quid to better the hope 2.
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  • tsenior
    tsenior Posts: 664
    diy wrote:
    Its a totally different experience, your eyes will see different things.

    i'm glad someone recognises this, theres alot of "my lumens are bigger than yours" comments on these threads!

    you dont need massive ammounts of light just to get out in the evenings IMO. Personally I embrace the difference between day and night riding.

    my set up probably only totals about 400-500 lumens; (a hope vision 1 i got years ago and 2 more recent aldi cree torches) but i quite like it. I dont go flat out as i'm usually by myself but i am a regular night rider, it works fine for me and i like the sensation compared with much brighter set ups which i have tried :)

    of course if better (brighter?) lights are adjustable/have different modes you can have the best of both worlds so if i was after a new set the ability to go from a low key double beam to full on "night into day" effect would be ideal.
  • diy
    diy Posts: 6,473
    edited September 2011
    tsenior - thats a standard feature on the cheapo lights that I run. Most will have a low - med - high mode with the addition of a pointless SOS mode and an epilepsy inducing strobe mode.

    For a bit of fire road riding 3-500 Lumin is fine, however, for something more technical with a bit of speed you really do need more light.

    You can get a 1.8-2k lumen set up for under 70 quid and a 1.6-1.8k lumen setup for under 60 quid. So I don't really see why anyone would buy a 480 Lumen light for £145. Particularly as one, no matter how bright, is not really enough.
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  • guy72277
    guy72277 Posts: 74
    Ooops, Was not my intention to get on your nerves junglist_matty. My comments were not directed at you or your set-up, but just my views on how I like to ride at night. When I used you I meant it in the "one" sense, not the junglist-matty sense, and I was not referring to *your* lights as average, just that I'm not keen on the "spot" type of light. Sorry that you took offense had to take the time to go through a full post dissection.

    Anyway, I admit, my lamp is a few years old now so is no longer cutting edge tech but I still love using it and an excited about using it on the ride tonight. Maybe should not have mentioned that in your thread. I take it all back.

    Have a good weekend. I'm signing off........
  • diy
    diy Posts: 6,473
    hopefully nobody will be running my recommendations or the other popular What light thread choices on your ride otherwise you may as well turn yours off :D
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  • tubaonwheels
    tubaonwheels Posts: 448
    I've got a Dx extreme special £27 - god its bright! Only lasts 1 1/2 hours on full though.
    Also just got an exposure joy stick. So last night ride used DX on bars on low setting and joystick on helmet on full - perfect.
    I am rather new to all this though.... :D
  • .blitz
    .blitz Posts: 6,197
    supersonic wrote:
    Hope Vision 2 is about the worst light I have ever seen for the money.
    For my solo night rides on the Chase where it's mostly pretty nadgery the Vision 2 is almost enough on its own. Combine it with a torch from dx to get a bit more depth & it's a solid reliable performer.

    It seems worse when you are in a group, trying to out-shine your (or someone else's) shadow. This is when the Lumicycle XPG and MJ-872 come out, but for me the #1 priority with lights is reliability and IME the Vision 2 scores highly in this respect.
  • Northwind
    Northwind Posts: 14,675
    Thing is, almost every very bright light has a low mode. But poor lights like the Vision 2 lack a "get much brighter" mode. I totally get what people mean about riding with less light, but it's nice to have the options. Especially when you get more options for less.
    Uncompromising extremist
  • homers_double
    homers_double Posts: 8,234
    .blitz wrote:
    It seems worse when you are in a group, trying to out-shine your (or someone else's) shadow. This is when the Lumicycle XPG and MJ-872 come out, but for me the #1 priority with lights is reliability and IME the Vision 2 scores highly in this respect.

    My ammount of lumens has evolved really, I started off with a double halogen set-up from lumicycle which gave a good view of the trail and combined with an enduro battery for SITS gave about 3 hours run time (total cost was £240)

    Along with these I messed about with crappy head torches but never really got a decent amount of light out of them (about £100 over three models)

    Last year with a bit of scrapping out cash I decided to get a decent head lamp and whilst on the web stumbled on Lumicycles end of season sale and picked up two 3 LED lamps for £200. Yes I could ride with one but as the battery had two leads I might as well use them.

    The power of these lamps is amazing, 2680 lumens in total on boost.

    But TBH who runs on boost all the time? I alternate between medium (900) and high (1900) depending on the conditions whilst hitting boost on the odd occasion when it gets a bit sketchy.

    The last night ride I went on reminded me that I still need a decent head torch as I stacked and face planted into a stone path because I couldn't see after a quick bar turn.

    Again, looking on the web I picked an exposure joystick which a mate reccomended (£160ish) then found the exposure Diable for £20 more. tripple the output for minal reddies. A no brainer really.

    So there you have it, 3580 lumens aquired over a four year experimental period, probably running around 23-2400 for the majority of the time.

    Running your lamps on full tilt all the time does two things, first it overpowers the LED's so they dont last as long and second, you get used to maximum beam so the time when you find that section of trail that needs a little bit more, you're stumped.

    The other benefit is that you can burn peoples rettinas, just for fun!
    Advocate of disc brakes.
  • guy72277
    guy72277 Posts: 74
    diy wrote:
    tsenior - You can get a 1.8-2k lumen set up for under 70 quid and a 1.6-1.8k lumen setup for under 60 quid. So I don't really see why anyone would buy a 480 Lumen light for £145. Particularly as one, no matter how bright, is not really enough.
    Long post sorry....

    Was thinking about your comment and was questioning my choice of the 480 lumen branded light I'm not sure there were so many cheap Chinese lights about when I bought mine but I use the light on four rides a week in the winter and need something that lasts for at least 2.5 hours on one charge (to work and back). I think your set-up could handle it, although maybe not on full power.

    I wanted something with a separate battery pack that I can keep in my Camelbak, so the light unit part is light enough to mount on a helmet. Light and battery on yer lid is not so great I think. Or are these torches super light? Helmet lighting is important for me as my commute route has tonnes of switchbacks and I'd also read about the “pools of blackness” behind objects on low handlebar mounted lights (a myth which the OP busts).

    I also wanted to be able to unplug the battery cable from the light unit and plug it directly into the charger when I get home, without rummaging around in my bag or having to take batteries out of the torch and put them in a wall charger. It's just more convenient.

    Another thing was a light that comes with attachments designed for the bike, so it's easy to put on, take off and adjust. This is where a torch like lamp would be frustrating, (I guess). How do you attach them? Maybe it's easy? Maybe it's duct tape?

    It's cool to use it for camping too, so the head strap the Hope came with is pretty handy (although you look like a twat of course). BTW, do the Chinese torches come with a really low setting, or is their low the equivalent to my 480 lumen high?

    Basically I think OP and I have different needs, I'm not looking to “turn day into night on my commutes”, just make a decent-sized hole in the darkness. Plus I'd probably seriously blind all those staring deer, foxes and rabbits with anything much brighter. The Hope light does seem to give a pretty good even spread and I was worried about getting something that was like a spot/search light and “chasing a dustbin lid of light”.

    I'm a total cheapskate (buy most things used on eBay) and really like the idea of buying the super cheap lights from the Chinese but I was going for practicality when I bought the Vision 2 a few years ago and have to say it's served me well. We'll see how reliability goes during its fourth winter, but I might get myself a retina scorcher like the OP, just for fun.

    Oh and on the organised night ride I did on Friday, of all the people who passed me (and who I passed) and there were about 150 entrants, I only saw one person using a light that was significantly brighter than the rest, (and one poor guy navigating the technical sections with a pathetic orange glow).

    Anyway you are all going to be out of date soon enough. Leds are dead. Long live the lasers!

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  • supersonic
    supersonic Posts: 82,708
    The torches are amazing for the money - there is no cheaper way of getting so much light. OK so you need to buy mounts, charger, and cells, but this adds flexibility. Also you can put spare cells in your backpack, something you can't do with some all in one systems.

    The cheapest XML T6 LED in the 501/502 torch is about 450 lumens, but a long runtime for a torch.

    Some of the other XML torches have higher current, and brighter (maybe 700 lumens) but do not last as long. Some torches have different modes, so have a look what they offer.

    The P7 led is still a viable option, as has a nice large flood but is not quite as efficient as the XML.
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