Worth upgrading Campag ergo shifters?

othello

I'm putting the finishing touches to my winter hack bike and the only thing it needs are some Campagnolo ergo shifters. I'm wondering if I should either:

* Buy a set of Veloce just for the winter bike (either new or off eBay)
* Upgrade the Veloce shifters on my main road bike and move them across to the winter bike

Really, I'm asking is it worth upgrading the ergo shifters from Veloce on my normal bike? if I went to say Chorus would I notice a big difference? I really like the Veloce shifters, but then I've not tried anything higher up the range.

Any thoughts?

clazza

Disclosure: I'm looking to get rid of some Record Ergos (Old shape / 10sp)

If youre talking about Veloce old shape then I've used those and thought they were poor compared to Chorus - not as slick and i actually broke the thumb button.

I replaced Veloce with Centaur new shape and can compare them with Chorus and Super Record shifters on two other bikes...Chorus and Super Record much better with the carbon levers (nice on cold days) and better shifting. FWIW, I think SR shifting is much more positive than Chorus

skyblue337

If you're considering brand new rather than NOS then all shifters above Centaur are 11 speed so not compatible. Centaur carbon is effectively top of the range for new 10 speed levers

ugo.santalucia

Whatever makes more economic sense I would say... sometimes there are offers on Veloce, sometimes of Centaur...
The difference between the two is mainly cosmetic.
To get some real sense of better quality in the shifters you need to go all the way up to Chorus, which is, as stated, 11 speed.
I would take the Record 10 offer as above if the price is good

rolf_f

Best upgrade option must be 2009/2010 new shape Centaur. Then you retain the multi down shift capability that the 2011 10 speed has lost.

nickwill

clazza wrote:

Disclosure: I'm looking to get rid of some Record Ergos (Old shape / 10sp)

If youre talking about Veloce old shape then I've used those and thought they were poor compared to Chorus - not as slick and i actually broke the thumb button.

I replaced Veloce with Centaur new shape and can compare them with Chorus and Super Record shifters on two other bikes...Chorus and Super Record much better with the carbon levers (nice on cold days) and better shifting. FWIW, I think SR shifting is much more positive than Chorus

Much of a muchness as far as I'm concerned. I broke the left hand thumb button on both Centaur and Chorus and as that seems to be the weak point and is the same on both models, I would go for the cheaper option.

othello

Thanks everyone.

So the basic gist is keep an eye for out bargains on centaur or veloce as it doesnt make a huge difference which.

Such a shame that anything above centaur is 11 speed now. I dont really want to start upgrading to that...

g00se

I would say look out for 2010 Veloce and Centaur Ultra-Shift levers. As Rolf said, only Record and Chorus are Ultra now. Athena down is Power Shift. With Ultra, you can shift 5 cogs at a go with the thumb (and 3 with the lever). With Power Shift, it's only one with the thumb.

But in 2009 and 2010, you had Ultra options for the new shape Veloce and Centaur levers. The first 2009 Ultra levers had ratchets that 'felt' less distinct than the previous full shifting Campag Ergos and could sometimes stick if the cable got caught in the ratchet guide. Campag brought out a replacement ratchet that made the Ultra levers feel more like the old ones and which fixed the sticking. And in the 2010 models - they came with these fitted as standard. See http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=205558

So look out for the 2010 models. If you find a 2009 model, make sure it has the ratchet replaced (if you look in the back of the ergo where it clamps to the bars, the ratchet plate will be black and not white) as I think the replacement kit will be hard to find now.

I picked up a pair of brand new carbon centaur 2010 ultrashift levers on ebay a few months ago for about £100 with cables.

g00se

Had to add though - that 2009 and 2010 old logo 10-speed levers have to be matched with pre-2011 10-speed rear mechs. The 2011 10-speed levers have different pull ratios (I think the same as 11 speed) so need to be matched to 2011 rear mechs.

If you do want 2010 ultra shift levers - these are a good price and come with cables:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Campagnolo-Veloce-Ultra-Shift-10sp-Ergo-Levers-2010-/170677977678?pt=UK_sportsleisure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item27bd33424e

othello

g00se wrote:

I would say look out for 2010 Veloce and Centaur Ultra-Shift levers. As Rolf said, only Record and Chorus are Ultra now. Athena down is Power Shift. With Ultra, you can shift 5 cogs at a go with the thumb (and 3 with the lever). With Power Shift, it's only one with the thumb.

But in 2009 and 2010, you had Ultra options for the new shape Veloce and Centaur levers. The first 2009 Ultra levers had ratchets that 'felt' less distinct than the previous full shifting Campag Ergos and could sometimes stick if the cable got caught in the ratchet guide. Campag brought out a replacement ratchet that made the Ultra levers feel more like the old ones and which fixed the sticking. And in the 2010 models - they came with these fitted as standard. See http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=205558

So look out for the 2010 models. If you find a 2009 model, make sure it has the ratchet replaced (if you look in the back of the ergo where it clamps to the bars, the ratchet plate will be black and not white) as I think the replacement kit will be hard to find now.

I picked up a pair of brand new carbon centaur 2010 ultrashift levers on ebay a few months ago for about £100 with cables.

Thanks, really interesting.

I've got 2010 Veloce on my normal road bike and didn't realise that Campagnolo were not keeping the same multiple shift on the thumb.

othello

g00se wrote:

Had to add though - that 2009 and 2010 old logo 10-speed levers have to be matched with pre-2011 10-speed rear mechs. The 2011 10-speed levers have different pull ratios (I think the same as 11 speed) so need to be matched to 2011 rear mechs.

If you do want 2010 ultra shift levers - these are a good price and come with cables:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Campagnolo-Veloce-Ultra-Shift-10sp-Ergo-Levers-2010-/170677977678?pt=UK_sportsleisure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item27bd33424e

I can feel this turning into a nightmare of campag compatibility issues!

So 2010 10 speed levers can't run a 11speed rear mech? I picked up a 11 speed chorus rear mech for silly cheap money off ebay, but haven't fitted it yet. So that wouldn't work with my 10 speed Veloce 2010 ultrashift levers? That case I should get 2011 10 speed shifters to work with my chorus rear mech for my normal bike and shift the 2010 stuff over to the hack bike.

clazza

I'm not sure that 2010 and 2011 10sp shifters are different (no mention of this on the CTC site) - I've run same Shimano mech with 2010 and 2011 Campag 10sp shifters (Shimergo) and not noticed any difference

If the mech is Chorus 11sp then I think you would need 11sp shifters

othello

I've done a lot of googling and running 10speed shifters with a 11 speed rear mech seems to work fine. But maybe they are running 2010 10 speed shifters and not 2011 10 speed?

Doing some more digging, the Veloce ergo's are actually lighter than the centaur and still keep ball bearings. Apart from the badge it would make sense to go veloce.

skyblue337

There is a 2010-2011 compatibility chart which suggests that 2011 levers and 2010 derailleurs work but are not optimal (would marketing let them say anything else?)

http://www.campagnolo.com/jsp/en/downloader/docid_207.jsp

skyblue337

Just to add I have 2009 Chorus levers with a 2011 Athena rear mech on the best bike and this shifts OK and 2011 Athena powershist levers with a 2009 Athena rear mech on my other bike and this shifts flawlessly (better than the Chorus/Athena on the best bike which leads me to believe the 2011 levers are a nice upgrade if you have the inclination)

rolf_f

clazza wrote:

I'm not sure that 2010 and 2011 10sp shifters are different (no mention of this on the CTC site) - I've run same Shimano mech with 2010 and 2011 Campag 10sp shifters (Shimergo) and not noticed any difference

If you can do multi downshifts on 10 speed, then it isn't a 2011 mech. They are different.

rolf_f

othello wrote:

I've done a lot of googling and running 10speed shifters with a 11 speed rear mech seems to work fine. But maybe they are running 2010 10 speed shifters and not 2011 10 speed?

Doing some more digging, the Veloce ergo's are actually lighter than the centaur and still keep ball bearings. Apart from the badge it would make sense to go veloce.

I'd be surprised at that. My 2009 Campag brochure always claims weight savings at each stage though they are often so marginal I suspect many are in reality exactly the same. Mind you, in 2009 the old and new style levers were both available for Veloce so maybe the lighter ones are the older design?

If you like durability of finish, I would go Centaur. I got knocked off by a dim pedestrian and the only significant damage to the bike was to the finish on one of the carbon levers - fairly nasty looking scuffs to the lacquer. Ten minutes of wet and dry, T cut and polish and you can hardly spot the damage at all. The metal Veloce levers would have been far harder to sort.

othello

Rolf F wrote:

othello wrote:

I've done a lot of googling and running 10speed shifters with a 11 speed rear mech seems to work fine. But maybe they are running 2010 10 speed shifters and not 2011 10 speed?

Doing some more digging, the Veloce ergo's are actually lighter than the centaur and still keep ball bearings. Apart from the badge it would make sense to go veloce.

I'd be surprised at that. My 2009 Campag brochure always claims weight savings at each stage though they are often so marginal I suspect many are in reality exactly the same. Mind you, in 2009 the old and new style levers were both available for Veloce so maybe the lighter ones are the older design?

It looks like the difference is so minimal (5-10 grams) that they might well be the same.

I really like the feel of my current 2010 veloce on the best bike, and would be happy to have them on the winter bike. While buying brand new for the winter bike seems extravagant, I wonder if the hassle of swapping the old ones over and putting on new Veloce is sch a PITA not to be worth it. Though if I stump up for carbon centaur...

g00se

Regarding using 2009 11-speed levers with 2011 11-speed mechs - shouldn't be an issue as 11 speed hasn't changed - apparently, it's just the new 2011 10-speed kit that has changed.

Rumour is that the new 10-speed rear cable movement is the same as the 11-speed cable movement (saves on tooling?) - though not the actual movement of the mech - as the 11-speed has sprockets closer together. That bears out what othello says about 10-speeds levers working 11-speed mech (provided it's a 2011 lever set).

i got this from campag themselves:

I confirm, it won’t work. With 2011 10S rear derailleur you must use 2011 10S Power Shift commands. The rest of the transmission can remain the same.


Cordiali Saluti/ Best Regards

Federico Fiori

So 2011 10-speed levers (all powershift now) and 10-speed rear mechs do have differnent cable pull compared to 2010 and before.

ewanfish

I saw a set of Campagnolo Veloce Ultra-Shift 10sp Ergo Levers – 2010 on e bay.
My son (14) is doing up a road bike frame that he got & all he really needs now is gear changers, he has this type of gear shifters on his other Carrera road bike. He has fitted Shimano 105 10sp Rear mech derailleur RD- 5701 & Shimano 105 FD-5600 Silver Double 10-Speed Front Mech/Derailleur to the bike he is doing up, would the Campagnolo Veloce Ultra-Shift 10sp Ergo Levers – 2010, Would the levers suit the front & rear mech.
I used to do a lot of cycling with my old Puch, Free spirit which i still have & still have the original gear on it but thinking of upgrading seen my son is saying it looks a bit tatty compaired to his newly painted bikes, just hoping i can still keep up with him on future cycles.
Thanks for the info in advance.