How fit do you need to be to race?

t5nel

I know it is a bit of a "piece of string" question but...

road newbies like me (and others I am sure as well) see all the terms cat1 2,3,4 elite bandied around. I have learnt that 1 is better than 4 and that you go up the ranks by winning points in qualifying races (sounds like quite a lot of red tape and rules!)

BUT

I have been riding my road bike for about 3 weeks, I am not sure if I fancy trying a race or two next year (I know I would need to join a club, get license etc.) I am under no illusions as a 35 yr old that it would just be for 'fun' but at the same time I would want to be 'competing' with someone. I have no idea what then entry level cat4 really means in reality. I would find it very discouraging to turn up to a first race, be dropped after 500m lapped after 2000m and finish last (or be stopped because they want to repone the roads!)

So while I understand that some cat4's are on the way up and will be cat3 in waiting etc. what sort of level should you be at before you can hold your own at a race? Are all cat4 likely to be guys who have trained for 5+ years... I dont want to embarrass anyone or myself!

how do racers normally rate their abilities? Power (Watts), TT results, top speed they can maintain on flat?

I guess I want to see the yardstick so I can see how I measure up and how far away I am from having a go.

Thanks - hopefully this will be of interest to others too
Tim

maybe I'll post a garmin of my commute tonight.....

----EDIT---
Alright no laughing at the back.
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/114537556
This is my commute - was busy with sections in town/traffic lights one way system and occasional pavement-cycle path excursions/queue overtaking.
about 20mph average - not full beans but I was going fast to get home with rucksack.[/url]

danowat

Rock up to a local club 10, pay £2 and see how you get on (probably next season now).

If you are up at the thick end of the results, then you know you are doing well, if not, train a bit more.

weapons

As long as you are reasonably fit, you should be able to stay in the bunch of a flat cat 4 race without a problem. Just be ready and able to cope with any surges in pace by doing a few intervals and you'd be fine.

More importantly, if you're used to riding alone, or with just a mate or two, make sure you brush up on your bike handling skills riding in a group. It's quite a difference riding in a bunch at 25mph+ going in and out of corners. You don't want to be the one who caused a crash because of poor handling, so join a club, do group rides, do chaingangs to get used to group riding at speed.

sloppyschleckonds

Imagine the worst case race scenario and times it by about 100

nochekmate

weapons wrote:

As long as you are reasonably fit, ....... It's quite a difference riding in a bunch at 25mph+ going in and out of corners..

A number of my mates have been riding in 4th Cat races (with some success this season - 2 have moved up to 2nd Cat) but I think you would have to be a bit more than 'reasonably fit' to just rock up and ride at 25mph for the duration of a race (and their stats suggest that these speeds are required even in 4th Cat races).

t5nel

Thanks

25mph for duration would be quite a stretch goal at the moment. What are typical race distances?

Solo, flat smooth road I suppose 22/23 would be me on th elimit of what I could sustain for minutes.

merak

You can ride signifiucantly faster in the wheels than on your own.

amaferanga

You can't really compare what you can do solo with race pace. You could never sniff the wind in a race and average 25mph with little effort.

But as others have said it's more about the surges in pace and being able to put in big efforts then recover in time for the next big effort. The further you sit back in the bunch (newbies will usually hang at the back) then the bigger the effort you need to put in coming out of corners or when someone attacks and the whole bunch go trundling after them.

As for the standard of 4th Cats - well it can seem quite high, but you need to remember that you're racing against guys that are either new to racing like you (so maybe fast, but inexperienced) and guys that have raced for a while and NEVER had a decent result and are therefore just not particularly talented or committed to their racing.

Best thing you can do is probably join a club and ride with some of the guys that race on a chaingang or two to get an idea of where you're at.

Anonymous

Its hard. If you think you are fit that is only part of the equation. I have done a lot of sports and fitness and road racing at entry level seems to be among the most demanding physically from the off. Stick at it, I got shelled out the back of my first race after 40 miles of a 60 mile route, the group just went after a small climb and I could not get back on, game over. Good fun though.

thescouselander

Interesting route to work but there's a lot of down hill. What are your speeds like in the opposite direction?

Pseudonym

thescouselander wrote:

Interesting rute to work but there's a lot of down hill. What are your speeds like in the opposite direction?

as above - the general trend of that route is downhill (the finish point is about 150ft lower than the start), so quoting an average speed for only going one way on it is slightly misleading.

ride_whenever

All you need is to be as fit as you can at the time...

Pseudonym

ride_whenever wrote:

All you need is to be as fit as you can at the time...

that's not strictly true - you need to be at least as fit as the rest of the field if you want to stay with the bunch...

ride_whenever

The ONLY thing you can do in competition is be as fit and well prepared as you can. After that it comes down to luck how fit everyone else is, it's pretty much the only aspect of racing you can't control.

Pseudonym

ride_whenever wrote:

The ONLY thing you can do in competition is be as fit and well prepared as you can. After that it comes down to luck how fit everyone else is, it's pretty much the only aspect of racing you can't control.

yes, but if everyone else is twice as fit, you are still going to get dropped shortly after the race gets de-neutralised...

The guy is after a yardstick, not motivational speeches...

t5nel

Pseudonym wrote:

thescouselander wrote:

Interesting rute to work but there's a lot of down hill. What are your speeds like in the opposite direction?

as above - the general trend of that route is downhill (the finish point is about 150ft lower than the start), so quoting an average speed for only going one way on it is slightly misleading.

Fair point that there is a drop on the overall route (though I would think it was faster if totally flat it undulates quite a bit). I posted that ride from last night as it was quite a decent run and I actually committed to trying to go quite quick. Up until now I have not really done that yet on this bike.

Misleading? I rather thought that posting the route and all the stats would mean that it wasnt misleading as you have all the info to hand. It would have been misleading if I had made statements without providing data backing it up. None the less thanks for taking the time to actually look at the route and notice this stuff - if anyone feels they were duped then I apologise 8)

The ride in *is* slower but traffic tends to be much more of an issue (shool run etc) and traffic queues so less of an opportunity to try and put a time down. Time can vary by 15 mins on way in.

I will try and leave earlier next week and see what is achievable - suspect that sub 36 min would be quite doable so I will try for sub 35.

Just fyi here is route in from cpl weeks back http://connect.garmin.com/activity/111262860
about 37 mins moving time no reason to believe that I was 'trying' that day though...

Pseudonym

sorry, I wasn't implying that you were actually trying to mislead - just that the stats do not give a picture of a 'typical' average...

the link above is password-protected. Do you ride any other routes, apart from to/from work..?

What kind of stats do you have for a 20 mile loop, for instance....

t5nel

Pseudonym wrote:

ride_whenever wrote:

The ONLY thing you can do in competition is be as fit and well prepared as you can. After that it comes down to luck how fit everyone else is, it's pretty much the only aspect of racing you can't control.

yes, but if everyone else is twice as fit, you are still going to get dropped shortly after the race gets de-neutralised...

The guy is after a yardstick, not motivational speeches...

Yes - just a yardstick.

I realise all the rest - I just wondered if the level of cat 4 racing is SO far above the level that I am at now (reasonably fit - no special training other than biking to work) that to think about trying a race or two next year would be a humiliating mistake...

thescouselander

I don't feel you were misleading anyone. My comments were just an observation. Some clubs publish standards for various events - might be worth looking at a few club websites to get a feel for what might be expected.

t5nel

thescouselander wrote:

I don't feel you were misleading anyone. My comments were just an observation. Some clubs publish standards for various events - might be worth looking at a few club websites to get a feel for what might be expected.

np

t5nel

Pseudonym wrote:

sorry, I wasn't implying that you were actually trying to mislead - just that the stats do not give a picture of a 'typical' average...

the link above is password-protected. Do you ride any other routes, apart from to/from work..?

What kind of stats do you have for a 20 mile loop, for instance....

ehm my Garmin skills appear to be lower than my cycling skills... think it is fixed now (tricksy little padlocks)

Here is a shade over 22m
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/109534438

much less traffic here and no rucksack as not commute.
BUT quite hilly (for me!) and was at steady pace - not leisurely but not balls out either

dodgy

Pseudonym wrote:

thescouselander wrote:

Interesting rute to work but there's a lot of down hill. What are your speeds like in the opposite direction?

as above - the general trend of that route is downhill (the finish point is about 150ft lower than the start), so quoting an average speed for only going one way on it is slightly misleading.

There was also a wind from the SE yesterday, so that's essentially a downhill route with a tail wind.

Post a circular route (not precisely circular, the objective is to start and finish at the same place) to get a more accurate average speed.

Your speeds are pretty good for a novice, keep it up.

oysterkite

Cat 4 isnt a massive test of fitness (although you will need to be able to sustain 80% of max heart rate for sustained periods and cope with surges as pretyy much everything gets chased down). Cat 4 racing is however a big test of bike handling in a bunch. there are quite a number of accidents. You need to get this under your belt before riding in a group of forty riders at pace. Join a club, you will get the experience you need and an idea of the fitness level required as well as lots of useful advice and most likely other cat 4 racers to race with. Cat 4 often suffers from IBS syndrome as well (Inevitable Buch Sprint) so an ability to sprint will serve you in good stead.

Go for it though, its highly addicticve

Pseudonym

t5nel - see PM

Pross

OP, you could always enter a Go Race. No licence needed, you don't need to be a club member and they are intended for people wanting to try racing for the first time. Give one a go, all you've got to lose is the entry fee. It isn't really something you can define in terms of fitness. Some people are able to sit in while other, fitter, riders get dropped due to poor positioning or an inability to go with sudden acceleration.

racingcondor

OP - Judging by that Garmin file you're doing all right, that's about what I could do when I started racing crits and while I just hung on for dear life I was able to finish in the pack in all my early races (note crits not road races).

To give you a little perspective I am now a 3rd Cat (not actually much stronger than a good 4th but there are few weak riders) and can average over 19mph for the 40 miles I ride to visit family (with 2,500 ft climbing, 1,000 decending). I'm now pack fodder .

You're doing well, join a club and you'll learn very quickly how strong some riders are then once you're comfortable on their fast ride go do a Cat 4 race. The worst that is likely to happen is you spend a tenner and come home humbled, more likely is that you'll come home addicted.

t5nel

had another go tonight.
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/114779664
took about a minute off time and went 300m further (started watch earlier)

Got average speed up to 20.6mph.

Goal for this year is sub 30 mins for this route. Should be achievable without the suicidal pedestrians and a road closure...

No doubt I will be told that there were freak SE hurricane winds tonight (actually felt quite calm so ideal for riding)

I was pleased that I got to 10m in about 29m so I think I could do a 10 TT sub 30 (perhaps well sub 30) which I would be happy with

dodgy

Good for you, but I'm only commenting on this because you're obviously wanting comments or you wouldn't post these Garmin Connect traces.

It's pointless to guage your average speed from one direction. You have to ride a circular route. And yes, the wind near Aldershot was blowing from the South yesterday. So it's wind assisted.

Nevertheless, you're doing well. But try a circular route at the weekend and record a route that starts and ends at the same point.

oldwelshman

oysterkite wrote:

Cat 4 isnt a massive test of fitness (although you will need to be able to sustain 80% of max heart rate for sustained periods and cope with surges as pretyy much everything gets chased down). :

This is not actually true at all. If you put an elite rider in a 4th cat race his HR would rarley go above 60% MHR, on the other end of scale put a cycling novice in a 4th cat race and they would be on MHR immediately and get dropped within a mile. It is totally dependant on the individual what HR they would hit in a race. I was in a race the other day comofotable and a poor guy next to me was almost hyperventillating having just done the climb.
Roughly if someone can average 18 to 20mph on lone rides, or maybe do 25 minute 10tt and maybe hit 30mph on the flat, then they should be abloe to do a 4th cat or go race.
Cycling (racing) is probably the hardest sport to start off in with respect to fitness levels as most sports have more entry and beginner levels than cycling and you need to be better than average to race. Some riders never manage to race as they just cant go fast enough unfortunately and with the nature of bike racing if you are not fast enough you get dropped and loose the benefit of drafting and your race is over for that race unless you wish to do a lone race
Joining a club and riding in a group is better than nothing but it is not the same as racing in a bunch but at least you will learn riding close to wheels and lines taken on corners etc.

oldhairylegs

Before racing, you really do need to get used to riding at speed in close proximity to other riders, so best join a club and join in with some chain gang sessions. Some riders who are very strong just don't get on with riding in a bunch.

If some of these guys are racing and you are able to keep up reasonably well, then you shouldn't have any problems with race fitness but realistically you are looking at next year to start now.

Good luck - it's very addictive!

milese

This time last year I entered a 4th cat only RR and got dropped on the second lap.

I then spent the winter training, 2 x 1 hour a week on the turbo, maybe 30-50 miles on the weekend, and 50 - 70 miles of commuting, generally.

I entered the first races of the season and did quite well, ended up winning a 4th cat race and had another 5 or 6 top 10s (I've just posted more in the amature race section).

I'm 28 so younger than you, but believe me, bar one or two riders, I am generally amongst the youngest, and you've certainly got another 10 years of 3rd cat racing in you, at least if you want it. Plenty seem to race into their 50's.

My advice is get into a routine of training over winter and enter the first RR for next season you can find. Its a great time now to get interested and start taking it seriously for next season.

Reading some training books might help keep you motivated if nothing else, the Time Crunched Training Plan seems popular, or if you something a bit more old school something by Peter Reed. (there are plenty of ways to skin a cat). PM me your email address, I think I have Peter's book as a PDF.

Speeds on your own aren't comparable with a group, nor with a group in a race, but incase it is some kind of help, I would rarely average much over 18mph on a solo ride of over 30 miles around here (hilly), and on a 17 mile loop (TTing myself) I do around 20mph.