Can't sustain effort in the mornings

davis

This has been going on for ages, but I've not got an HRM, so it's based on my perception.

I can't put in sustained effort on the way in in the mornings. I try pushing, and very quickly blow up, dropping back to a more sedate pace. My breathing goes "wonky" (it feels like I have to breathe really hard, but not for long, and then it jumps about), and I think my heart rate does the same. It doesn't feel like this on the way home.

Yesterday was a classic example: I woke at 6am-ish, feeling pretty damn good. I faffed around the house for a couple of hours (tidied up, breakfast, etc) with quite a bit of nipping up and down the stairs. I should have been at least awake, and as warmed up as I would be following a sedate day in the office. Tended to tyres and oil, checked bike was lovely, and off I went.

Very quickly - boom. Breathing's laboured, cadence is all to cock, and heart feels like it's racing. Rest, recover, try, blow up. It sounds like an accidental interval training session.
Thing is, I'm not significantly slower on the way in, so I'm wondering if I'm making it up, although I do feel the same pretty much every morning. The only other thing I can think of is narcotic strength coffee throughout the day.

Anyone else get this? Am I making it up? :-)

ride_whenever

You usually can't train as hard first thing in the morning. Try getting a HRM and just riding to that rather than speed..

meanredspider

Have you tried starting slower and building up? HRM sounds like a plan - needn't be expensive. Might be worth discussing with your GP too - might be symptoms of something that can be fixed easily.

king_jeffers

Diet, lack of sleep?

davis

King Jeffers wrote:

Diet, lack of sleep?

Diet, I hope not. I've tried varying the things I eat, from carb-loading, easily digested sugars, to just plain stuffing myself. I usually eat well, and pretty sensibly.

Sleep could be an idea though. I have always struggled to sleep, taking at least an hour to drift off, unless I switch off my brain with the magic of a couple of pints.

davis

Oh, and now it would appear I simply must buy an HRM. Thanks Bikeradar!

White Horse

An HRM for a commute? That's like driving your car watching only the rev counter while you can hear the engine screaming at you and other road users yelling at you to slow down.

Just ride within yourself. Your body will tell you more than a HRM.

ride_whenever

White Horse wrote:

An HRM for a commute? That's like driving your car watching only the rev counter while you can hear the engine screaming at you and other road users yelling at you to slow down.

Just ride within yourself. Your body will tell you more than a HRM.

Yeah, but a HRM is cheap and his body is doing something wierd. I'd be like watching the rev counter when the car is driving erratically and seeing something odd.

White Horse

If it's a major problem, go see a doctor surely? They could do proper tests if they saw fit then.

meanredspider

White Horse wrote:

If it's a major problem, go see a doctor surely? They could do proper tests if they saw fit then.

It'll be useful to say to the doc - my HR is X when I start but shoots up to Y etc. Sure they will do the proper tests if needed but being armed with some data I'm sure will help the doc.

Alternatively go straight to the doc.

White Horse wrote:

An HRM for a commute?.

You make it sound like buying a Ferrari to pick up the paper. I use my HRM frequently on my commute - mostly to slow me down

davis

Well, I've spent a bit of time in hospital and had some operations, so I reckon that vital things like heart, bloods etc would've been checked out.
In all honesty I'd feel a bit silly going to a doctor to complain that my "wonky morning heart-rate" still allows me to churn out a reasonable average speed.
I think it'll be a combination of HRM to see if it's partly psychosomatic, and probably try working out how to actually sleep!

White Horse

It'll be useful to say to the doc - my HR is X when I start but shoots up to Y etc. Sure they will do the proper tests if needed but being armed with some data I'm sure will help the doc.

I suppose that might be useful. Good point.

You make it sound like buying a Ferrari to pick up the paper. I use my HRM frequently on my commute - mostly to slow me down

No, I said it was like watching the rev counter only in your car while you can hear the engine screaming and everyone around you yelling at you to slow down. I suppose for a commute my point was it's not like I'm racing 120 miles and I've got to make sure I get to the bottom of the Galibier in the best possible shape to be able to mount an attack. I guess I've just never really seen the point of a HRM to be honest. If I knew I had a medical condition where a rate of a certain level would be dangerous then I would buy one, but if I don't know what I'm looking at or why I'm looking at it, then it's just data really.
If I was just cycling to work and thought that I really shouldn't be feeling this knackered after a few miles I would seek medical advice. Granted a little more information may be appreciated by my doctor.

meanredspider

White Horse wrote:

No, I said it was like watching the rev counter only in your car while you can hear the engine screaming and everyone around you yelling at you to slow down..

Exactly what the rev counter is there for - tell you when you've hit the red line and need to shift up...

But, besides that tenuous anology, I use an HRM to keep myself in check on recovery rides and the like. I don't intuitively know whether I'm riding at 140bpm or 160bpm - better still, it helps me relax in the climbs or avoid setting off in persuit of that rider on the horizon. Granted, my commute isn't what most people envisage as a commute but then we don't know what the OP's commute is like either (assuming it is a commute - which it looks like). It's just a guide to effort so you know if you're working hard or easy enough to achieve your goals

White Horse

Ah, sorry. I cycle to work to get to work and it's a way of getting my bit of exercise in and including it in my routine. It also saves money on petrol and I find it more enjoyable than driving to work.

I suppose if you are using it to train for something else, then fair enough if you're being scientific about it.

I, wrongly it seems, assume that most people in the commuting section of the forum simply ride their bikes to work as opposed to it being a part of some greater plan.

meanredspider

White Horse wrote:

I, wrongly it seems, assume that most people in the commuting section of the forum simply ride their bikes to work as opposed to it being a part of some greater plan.

It's actuall pretty much all I do - backward & forwards - to keep it interesting (to me) I just like to get faster at it otherwise, as beautiful as my ride is, it would get dull & a chore. I'm sure if I rode an urban commute (like I used to), I'd be spending my time avoiding buses & peds and engaging in SCR. As it is, pretty much the only bus I see is the school minibus that collects kids from some of the more remote houses and I get a cheery wave from the old girl that drives it. I occasionally get an SCR scalp (like this morning) but, if it's one proper one a week, that's been an incredibly busy week. During the winter months I don't see another bike.

Torvid

I think before you get a HRM you need to include a few more details.

How far is the commute, route map with points where you feel like your about to blow up would be good, what do you weigh, whats the average speed and what type of bike are you on?

It could just be a case that your not warmed up right (it takes about 15mins to warm up correctly), you actually are just working harder cause it's a long slow uphill drag (hence the easy feeling on the way home) or simply you are just over doing it in the mornings. If I don't eat breakfast then about half way on my way in I feel a power drop off and i know if i push i'm going to be doing the last 5-6 miles doing what your doing. Also are you getting enough water into your system you need to replace what you lose.

king_jeffers

davis wrote:

Sleep could be an idea though. I have always struggled to sleep, taking at least an hour to drift off, unless I switch off my brain with the magic of a couple of pints.

I find if I have a drink before bed it helps initially but I wake up later feeling wired which is a nightmare, especially after a long session and subsequent hangover. A couple of beers might be okay but I'm sure it does something to your blood sugar levels and acts as a stimulant causing you to have a disturbed sleep - not sure if anyone else has come across this? Might just be me :?

Otherwise ... and this will sound odd... try a cold shower before you go to bed. My doctor recommended this when I had difficulty sleeping a few years ago. Something to do with lowering your core body temperature. It really does work.

Getting back to diet, magnesium can help your body with energy levels/reduction of tiredness and fatigue but if your diets okay you might not need them. Just an idea, hope you get sorted

davis

Thanks all.

More details about the commute (linear distance in miles, elevations in feet). This is the short, flat version of the commute, and it's the one I typically do in the mornings:



I don't think of this as a hard ride at all, and, given that if I do the reverse home it's easy, I wonder why I struggle in the mornings. I found the same on my old commute, which is longer and had 3-4 times the "ascent" (yes, I know, it's still flat-ish, especially compared to the Black Isle!) Now I struggle on most of these "uphills" - even the easy ones - the 0.5 mile I could understand, except I've tried warming up by running up and down stairs a bit so my heart gets going, or by throwing in a longer ride first. Even the slight climb at 6 miles still makes me feel genuinely horrible, though I think I'd be warmed up by then.

This is fairly embarrassing, 'cos I used to think of myself as a decent climber. I'm getting back to some sort of form following a big crash in February, but the feeling horrible has always affected me in the morning, even on different commutes.

I'm about 67 Kg, and the average speed is about 17-18mph, usually slower in the mornings.

The diet thing might be worth looking into - a few more seeds, perhaps. Also, I appreciate the advice about sleep. I've almost always struggled with sleeping, and haven't had a dream (that I remember) for ~15 years. That's something I really have to think about improving, preferably without having to resort to drink.

clarkey cat

how much sleep do you get?

AidanR

Just had a thought - maybe you're getting dehydrated overnight? That can wreak havoc with performance and HR.

joelsim

It could be your unconscious mind playing tricks on you. Because you expect a problem you get one.

Or it could be the fact that you get up at 6 and potter about for 2 hours!

I get up about 6 minutes before I leave the house. I don't think I've ever got up more than 45 minutes before leaving and that's only when I am on child breakfast, dressing and cleaning teeth duty as well as getting myself sorted.

davenice

Just as a thought, I used to really struggle to get to sleep because my brain would just buzz and buzz.

I find that listening to podcasts using a pillow speaker really helps. Sometimes I have them so quiet I can barely hear them but someone else droning on kind of stops me from thinking about all the things that were keeping me awake!

The other thing that I find is reading non-fiction (e.g. technical manuals or magazines) sends me to sleep much quicker than reading a novel (which can keep me up for hours because I can't put it down!).

Obviously, there are a billion things you could try and perhaps it's not the brain buzz that keeps you awake. But podcasts work nicely for me :-)

Dave

joelsim

Just knock one out before bed!

8)

davis

Dehydration and poor sleep are definite contenders. Last night was 6 hours of not very good sleep, and I woke feeling fairly thirsty. I made sure my room was cool, and I've tried following "sleep hygiene" advice.
Also, equally, Joelsim, it could well be psychosomatic. Also, I don't usually faff around for two hours; I was just explaining I didn't think it was lack of warm-up.

Not a bad idea about the "white noise" -- it's definitely dropping off that I struggle with. The two noticeable helps have been enough beer to switch off the "brain buzz" or... erm... some "recreational pharmaceuticals" on the very odd occasion. Constant back pain doesn't help either.

So, it sounds like HRM to find out if I'm making it up, and yet another go at sorting out the sleep. Again.

Torvid

I think you just need to drink more water and spin abit more for the first 1mile to 1.5miles go down a couple of gears from usual or have a day in the granny ring and see how that effects you?

Twostage

If you are struggling to drop off then try lavender wrapped in a hanky or buy one pre-prepared. Stick it near your nose when you go to bed. I used to struggle to fall asleep and it worked like a charm.