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Westfield Shopping centre - Ye Gods!

CressersCressers Posts: 1,329
edited September 2011 in The bottom bracket
Did you see the news on the opening last night? Did you see them running, running to get in? Did you hear the two brain donors they interviewed? "I'm helping the economy by shopping" and "when the going gets tough the tough go............... shopping"

There are times I despair...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14022954

Posts

  • BobbinogsBobbinogs Posts: 4,841
    i saw that on telly, reminded me of the old horror films where you would get the zombies milling around shopping malls...says it all, err, except the zombies at Westfields were moving a bit quicker and it is a shopping centre not a bleddy mall.
  • CressersCressers Posts: 1,329
    edited September 2011
    What an olympic legacy! Yet another place for people to buy what they don't need with money they don't have...


    Keep reading, it gets worse...

    http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/ ... ng-mall.do

    And worse...

    http://www.onenewspage.co.uk/video/2011 ... n-2012.htm
  • APIIIAPIII Posts: 2,010
    People buying stuff is a good thing isn't it? I mean, it helps pay the wages of the newly employed staff at said shopping centre. Or am I being terribly naive?
  • Cressers wrote:
    What an olympic legacy! yet another place for people to buy what they don't need with money they don't have...


    Keep reading, it gets worse...

    http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/ ... ng-mall.do

    And worse...

    http://www.onenewspage.co.uk/video/2011 ... n-2012.htm

    The first stage of gentrification that is.

    That second clip is truly frightening, it's like a chris morris skit. No wonder a nation can be led into wars/unquestionably vote tory if the populace are so mind controlled.

    And coincidentally i'd just been reading william blakes London, which seems apt

    "I wander through each chartered street,
    Near where the chartered Thames does flow,
    And mark in every face I meet,
    Marks of weakness, marks of woe.

    In every cry of every man,
    In every infant's cry of fear,
    In every voice, in every ban,
    The mind-forged manacles I hear:"

    Anyway i'm off to lidl.
    The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns
    momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.
  • rolf_frolf_f Posts: 16,015
    APIII wrote:
    People buying stuff is a good thing isn't it? I mean, it helps pay the wages of the newly employed staff at said shopping centre. Or am I being terribly naive?

    I'm afraid you are being terribly naive! What you want is more making leading to more spending. Not just the spending bit - on its own, all that does is export wealth in exchange for importing tat. Westfield is probably doing some good for the Asian economy though.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • CressersCressers Posts: 1,329
    This, though I've not read it, looks interesting...

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ghost-Milk-Call ... 0241144353
  • APIIIAPIII Posts: 2,010
    Rolf F wrote:
    APIII wrote:
    People buying stuff is a good thing isn't it? I mean, it helps pay the wages of the newly employed staff at said shopping centre. Or am I being terribly naive?

    I'm afraid you are being terribly naive! What you want is more making leading to more spending. Not just the spending bit - on its own, all that does is export wealth in exchange for importing tat. Westfield is probably doing some good for the Asian economy though.

    Making wealth or products? It doesn't really matter what we produce, be it goods or services, but yes we need to create something that other markets want in order to pay for our imports. In the short term though, consumers not spending isn't going to help anyone.
  • CressersCressers Posts: 1,329
    But consumers spending on imported goods on credit is an economic disaster waiting to happen. Sadly we don't learn from our mistakes...
  • Not everyone is spending on credit though, I know people who could spend but are choosing not to because the media keep convincing them it's bad and the world is going to end. Yes things do need to change but I do think it's gone too far and certain media channels need to stop banging on about negative things.
  • CressersCressers Posts: 1,329
    Things are far worse than the media let on.
  • APIIIAPIII Posts: 2,010
    How are they worse?
  • rolf_frolf_f Posts: 16,015
    APIII wrote:
    In the short term though, consumers not spending isn't going to help anyone.

    The problem being that, in the long term, consumers spending isn't going to help anyone (unless we do the making as well).

    No point encouraging short term spending unless there is a long term plan behind it. Lack of this sort of thinking is exactly why we are in the mess we are in.

    eg tax cuts - encourage spending but result in lost tax revenue (unless the money lost by the tax cut is more than equalled by the increase in spend caused by it), people end up poorer and usually have nothing valuable to show for it (because, anything they need and can afford, they probably own - tax cuts are only going to encourage spending on censored you don't need).
    Faster than a tent.......
  • neiltbneiltb Posts: 332
    Cressers wrote:
    But consumers spending on imported goods on credit is an economic disaster waiting to happen. Sadly we don't learn from our mistakes...

    +1, you surely can't spend on credit to get yourself out of an issue caused by spending too much on credit.
    FCN 12
  • APIIIAPIII Posts: 2,010
    Rolf F wrote:
    APIII wrote:
    In the short term though, consumers not spending isn't going to help anyone.

    The problem being that, in the long term, consumers spending isn't going to help anyone (unless we do the making as well).

    No point encouraging short term spending unless there is a long term plan behind it. Lack of this sort of thinking is exactly why we are in the mess we are in.

    eg tax cuts - encourage spending but result in lost tax revenue (unless the money lost by the tax cut is more than equalled by the increase in spend caused by it), people end up poorer and usually have nothing valuable to show for it (because, anything they need and can afford, they probably own - tax cuts are only going to encourage spending on censored you don't need).

    I'm not disgreeing with you regarding long term, but as I said halting spending in the short term will not benefit anyone. I didn't say we should all go crazy with our credit cards in John Lewis.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 65,275 Lives Here
    Thatcher's children.

    You promote free market consumerism and that's whatcha get!

    Reasonably interesting article on the role of the materialism in the UK's position as the worst place to bring up a child in the developed world*


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/ ... istic-trap



    * Say Unicef
  • rolf_frolf_f Posts: 16,015
    APIII wrote:
    Rolf F wrote:
    I'm not disgreeing with you regarding long term, but as I said halting spending in the short term will not benefit anyone. I didn't say we should all go crazy with our credit cards in John Lewis.

    No, I know you aren't! The point is that the short term doesn't benefit anyone either unless you can back it up with something.

    You'll only gain by short term spending if you plan on being dead before the long term :lol:
    Faster than a tent.......
  • BigJimmyBBigJimmyB Posts: 1,302
    I've just moved after living in the same area for most of my 40 years.

    Until then I lived 2 miles from Thurrock Lakeside.

    It staggered me the amount of people who, on wonderfully warm and sunny days (and within reasonable distance of some great countryside), opted to drag themselves and their poor kids into that place for hours (if not days) on end.

    Free-flowing traffic on Staurdays, Sundays and bank hols was non-existent.

    My mate said to me once that shopping and possessions are the new gods....

    The place is a Cathedral to this - it even has a spire...

    http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=thurro ... =123&ty=58
  • APIII wrote:
    I'm not disgreeing with you regarding long term, but as I said halting spending in the short term will not benefit anyone. I didn't say we should all go crazy with our credit cards in John Lewis.

    As Keynes pointed out, "The long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead."
  • Hitler.
    The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns
    momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.
  • finchyfinchy Posts: 6,686
    APIII wrote:
    People buying stuff is a good thing isn't it? I mean, it helps pay the wages of the newly employed staff at said shopping centre. Or am I being terribly naive?

    It'll just destroy another high street or 10. How many towns do we have now with dozens of boarded up shops?
  • APIIIAPIII Posts: 2,010
    johnfinch wrote:
    APIII wrote:
    People buying stuff is a good thing isn't it? I mean, it helps pay the wages of the newly employed staff at said shopping centre. Or am I being terribly naive?

    It'll just destroy another high street or 10. How many towns do we have now with dozens of boarded up shops?

    You've never bought anything off the Internet then?
  • never mind apparantly you are going to have the worlds largest "Golden Arches" burger joint to console yourselves at the Olympic Park. (is it open yet)
  • finchyfinchy Posts: 6,686
    APIII wrote:
    johnfinch wrote:
    APIII wrote:
    People buying stuff is a good thing isn't it? I mean, it helps pay the wages of the newly employed staff at said shopping centre. Or am I being terribly naive?

    It'll just destroy another high street or 10. How many towns do we have now with dozens of boarded up shops?

    You've never bought anything off the Internet then?

    Yeah, mainly because so many specialist shops around here have closed. I never bought anything off the Net before '05.
  • johnfinch wrote:
    APIII wrote:
    johnfinch wrote:
    APIII wrote:
    People buying stuff is a good thing isn't it? I mean, it helps pay the wages of the newly employed staff at said shopping centre. Or am I being terribly naive?

    It'll just destroy another high street or 10. How many towns do we have now with dozens of boarded up shops?

    You've never bought anything off the Internet then?

    Yeah, mainly because so many specialist shops around here have closed. I never bought anything off the Net before '05.

    Specialist shops have survived by going onto the internet themselves. I moved away from the high street because local councils seemed to be utterly determined to make getting into town centres as difficult and as costly as possible.
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