Brakes - failing on first 60 mile ride ( London to Brighton)
Xaxa
Posts: 12
Hi All,
Well i am new to road cycling, spent a year on my MBT cycling 6 miles to work and back with nice effective disc brakes.
Decided i needed a challenge and am doing London Paris next Sept 2012, so bought myself a Specialised Allez Sport 27 with brakes that are rubber/rim 6 weeks ago. After a little training did the London Brighton on Saturday.. only to find i absolutely panic and freak out ( think tears, shaking, hysteria) on going DOWN hills as i don't think my brakes work.
No matter how hard i squeeze, my bike barely slows on small hills, liking going down Turners Hill.. so imagine my sheer panic on descending into Brighton - in the pouring rain - from Ditchling and seeing a 'cyclists steep descent' warning, apply brakes.. and not a lot happened. I managed to slow enough to get one foot upclipped and tumble myself onto a verge/gutter but now i am so shaken, i am too scared to cycle except in dry/ flatter conditions. Even then - cannot make myself think about downhill, makes me shake and am sitting at a desk!
The question is - how can i make my brakes more effective - my arms are so tired and weak after the effort i made to brake i cannot even grip the brkaes today, 2 days after! Do need different brakes/handlebars or technique? I cant reach the brakes if am in the drops, so brake from on top but not working well.
Thanks! and sorry for the ramble.. needed to explain!
Ont he upside.. LOVED the rest of the ride.. amazing feeling of acheivement and feel top of the world !)Legs are great today no ache at all!
Well i am new to road cycling, spent a year on my MBT cycling 6 miles to work and back with nice effective disc brakes.
Decided i needed a challenge and am doing London Paris next Sept 2012, so bought myself a Specialised Allez Sport 27 with brakes that are rubber/rim 6 weeks ago. After a little training did the London Brighton on Saturday.. only to find i absolutely panic and freak out ( think tears, shaking, hysteria) on going DOWN hills as i don't think my brakes work.
No matter how hard i squeeze, my bike barely slows on small hills, liking going down Turners Hill.. so imagine my sheer panic on descending into Brighton - in the pouring rain - from Ditchling and seeing a 'cyclists steep descent' warning, apply brakes.. and not a lot happened. I managed to slow enough to get one foot upclipped and tumble myself onto a verge/gutter but now i am so shaken, i am too scared to cycle except in dry/ flatter conditions. Even then - cannot make myself think about downhill, makes me shake and am sitting at a desk!
The question is - how can i make my brakes more effective - my arms are so tired and weak after the effort i made to brake i cannot even grip the brkaes today, 2 days after! Do need different brakes/handlebars or technique? I cant reach the brakes if am in the drops, so brake from on top but not working well.
Thanks! and sorry for the ramble.. needed to explain!
Ont he upside.. LOVED the rest of the ride.. amazing feeling of acheivement and feel top of the world !)Legs are great today no ache at all!
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Comments
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Braking from the hoods is not as powerful as when braking from the drops (so it is a bit of a concern that for some reason you cannot reach your brakes from the drops).
Not certain whether they will fit your brakes but different pads can make a big difference ie. many people on here (and that includes me) will pay extra for the performance of Swisstop Green pads.
Cable tension on your brakes may also need adjusting - the pads should be close to the rim without being so close that the rims rub.
Don't expect the same braking power of MTB though0 -
Don't say whether you're male or female - if the latter sometimes braking can be a problem because of small hands - particularly from the hoods. And you should be able to brake from the drops - in fact you should be able to apply more force from the drops. But I can lock my brakes from the hoods.
There are some brakes that are better for small hands - in fact, I think there are female-specific brake-shifters. Shimano are not the best in this regard - Campag tend to be better for smaller hands.
On the other hand if you're a bloke with gorilla-like mitts, a change of brake pads might help. I use Campag, but I've heard good thinsg about Koolstop.
Perhaps a visit to your LBS is in order.0 -
Am a girl/lady/women.. etc etc.. with quite small hands.. also find in the rain even with gloves on.. the brake levers slip in my grip...0
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I have stubby little fingers and small hands for a bloke and have needed to put shims in my Shimano brakes to adjust the reach. Even so its still not as ideal as i'd like but have accepted it the way it is -cant change the size of my hands *sigh*.
There is no way I could develop enough power to safely stop quickly on a hill whilst on the hoods tho... if you have Shimano I'd suggest searching out some shims, mine were in the handover pack supplied with my bike, otherwise ask the shop you purchased from - I bet they have a few knocking about unused from bike builds.0 -
Are the little releaser things on the brakes loose? I mean the little hand screw you loosen to get the wheels out?0
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shims.. will look that up.. am still a little shall we say knowledge lacking.
Yes.. i checked the brakes and screws/levers were all done up and tightened appropriately.. one thing i learnt very fast how to do!
Thanks!0 -
I felt the same when moving to a road bike. Being clipped in to the pedals also adds to the anxiety of a newbie road biker. I find that I am more cautious now on roads that I don't know and brake far sooner than required when approaching junctions etc.
I have been reassured that the confidence will come once I learn to overcome the fear and trust the bike's handling and the tyre grip. I had a scary moment yesterday on the Pedal for Scotland sportive. A fast downhill right turn in the rain with a crosswind! By the time I knew what was coming I was going way to fast and was afraid that the brakes would lock out. I could only see one outcome, me on the floor with some nasty road rash. I had no option but to trust the bike and let go of the brakes. Needless to say I managed to take the corner but I was very shaken and was having flash backs last night lying in bed. Not a nice feeling.
My advice would be to just take things a little slower at junctions and hills until you get the feel of your bike. Good luck.0 -
Something I found useful when first starting out, rather than shims was to adjust the brakes so that they were quite open. You have to pull the levers further but you get more purchase and leverage on the levers when using them from the hood.
I know people recommend having the brake blocks as close the rims as possible, but for me, that makes it harder to brake.
Also, the strongest place is on the drops - but it takes quite of bit of practice and confidence to get used to the drops, at speed, going down hill.0 -
Firstly - you need to be able to use your brakes from the drops, LBS shouldn't have sold it to you without checking that. You'll probably need these if you have small hands http://www.evanscycles.com/products/spe ... e#features they were actually made by Specialized so your dealer might be able to get them and fit (for free).
Secondly - what are the symptoms from the hoods and what brake model do you have? Do the levers move a lot (to the bars), if so they aren't set up correctly (too much slack in the cable) or you've left the brake QR open (little lever on the brake caliper). If they don't move much (so pad contacts the rim without much lever movement then it sounds like you jsut have poor braking performance which can be caused by a number of things but mostly either rubbish pads or oil etc. on the rims.0 -
LBS === Evans.... take what you want from that! I found i felt cramped on the ladies versions of bikes.. and felt more at home on the mens bikes in terms of positioning.
http://www.evanscycles.com/products/spe ... e-ec025028
^^ this is my bike.. and the brakes spec..
Front Brake:Shimano Sora
Rear Brake:Shimano Sora
Brake Levers:Shimano Sora STI
Handlebars:Specialized Comp Ergo, 6061 alloy
There is about a 1.5 mm gap on each side of the pads and dont move much, they work find when spinning the wheel and applying brake to test it .. without riding... only ineffective when actually cylcing. I did clean the rim before the ride with anti/grim/oil stuff to ensure they did not appear 'greasy' and slide.
I will take the bike to an actual LBS and ask them to look at the cables, the back one is def loose in my opinion.
ALot of the issue about using the brakes in drop s is confidence, but i somply cannot reach the levers without looking and concentrating, no good on a steep descent or at lights on the flat where i am trying to avoid people/ bikes/ curbs.
The link about SORA STI shifters is intersting , will review that tonight on my bike to ensure its correct.0 -
DO Shallow drops make a difference here? Evans have just suggested this.0
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I also have an Allez Sport 2011 and had trouble reacing the brakes from the drops even though I'm a guy (small hands!) if you pop into Evans and ask them if they have any shims for the levers they might give you a couple for free, theres a choice of either 4 degrees or 8 degrees for how far the shims move the levers back to the bar, I went for the 4 degree ones and can now comfortably reach the levers from the drops. Also upgrading the sora pads to cartridge pads should improve the braking. With the standard solid blocks our bikes come with the compound has to be quite hard to give the block strength. With cartridge pads where the pad slides into a metal holder the pad can be made out a much softer compound which will dramatically increase braking performance.
Also I dont think the shims in the link above will fit sora levers as the description only mentions 105 and ultegra, the shims I was given by my LBS also look slightly different.
EDIT: Just seen your post about shallow drop bars, the Allez already comes with compact short drop bars so I can't see why Evans would reccomend changing them.0 -
As has been said, try to get your hands in a position where you can get better leverage on your levers. This might be by hooking your thumb round the drop and getting more of your fingers around the lever. Try different positions.
But you will also find different pads will probably help a lot. I find "Koolstop" really good, they come in different hardness and I find the "soft" ones really good. I nearly always brake from the hoods and can lock the wheels if I'm not careful, even on quite steep hills. Soft pads wear out a bit quicker but they are kinder on your wheel rims.0 -
Operator / mechanic error / out of adjustment, is most likely.0
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Road bike brakes tend to be $hit when it's wet. You just have to plan ahead a bit more. Also, fit brake pads that state they're good in both wet and dry conditions.Xaxa wrote:.... so imagine my sheer panic on descending into Brighton - in the pouring rain - from Ditchling and seeing a 'cyclists steep descent' warning, apply brakes.. and not a lot happened.0 -
Have a play with different bars on bikes in the shop. Personally, I find ergo bars put my hands at an angle (on the drops) where reaching the levers is harder. Also, with compact bars that have a small radius of curve, allow you to put the levers a little further down the curve and so bring the levers back further -which makes them easier to reach on the drops and on the hoods.0
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road bike brakes are poor compared to mtb anyway. When you think about it though it makes sense, as there's not as much of a rubber contact point on the road so too much power on the brakes will lead to lock ups.
Sort the reach out first, but also get used to feathering the brakes to keep the speed down, rather than letting the bike get away from you and then panic braking. This is even more important in the wet, when you nee to basically clear the water off the rim before you'll start actually slowing down.0 -
Have you considered these?
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/cane-creek-cros ... ke-levers/
Designed for Cyclocross but apparently can be used with road brakes.
No way I'd descend a hill at speed if I couldn't reach the brakes in the drops, I'd never be able to apply the pressure needed to stop.
First stop though is take your bike to the shop that you bought it from and explain your problem.0 -
A few thoughts, even though some have been touched on:
Are the bars rotated properly? If the hoods are too far away you'll be reaching round from over the top of them and unable to get enough leverage. Evans aren't the greatest at setting bikes up so as a start point, looking from the bike sideways on are the tops of the hoods (where your hands naturally fall in normal riding) parallel to the floor? From there your fingers should be able to exert enough pressure to stop it properly.
Are the rims clean, and if it's new is there any evidence of a anything that looks like it should have been removed after shipping? Things like grease, cellophane film maybe? I find giving them them good clean with nothing more exotic than soapy water gives me remarkably good brakes (Fulcrum, Ultegra, non-glamorous off-the-shelf pads for a fiver).
You've said they're adjusted properly so we'll take that as read. Do the levers hit the bars when full on? They shouldn't, but this doesn't sound likely. Check out Youtube for vids on adjusting brakes - this is one thing I really would prefer to do myself and know that it's right rather than relying on a disinterested 'mechanic' in a national chain to keep me alive. It's dead easy, and the best thing you can learn (along with indexing, wheel truing, replacing the freewheel etc).
And finally, it's already been said but road bikes brakes aren't that great in the wet so don't expect too much. They should stop you though, eventually. And it's worth giving the rims a wash after a long run in the rain, to restore their magic stopping power and to wash away the grimey road dirt that acts as a grinding paste on the rims next time you're out on it.0 -
merak wrote:
Dude, now that's really helpful...dennisn wrote:Operator / mechanic error / out of adjustment, is most likely.
Nothing that he said makes me think otherwise and it's "Road Beginners" forum. Human error is my likely choice as opposed to equipment failure(it's a fairly new bike). Are there any other choices???0 -
I'd try a new set of brake pads. SwissStop green brake pads are very good.
A couple of photos of the bike might help, preferably with one with the brakes fully engaged.FTT
Specialized Allez
http://www.flickr.com/photos/49364032@N03/4820302085/
Steel bike http://www.flickr.com/photos/49364032@N03/46563181470 -
Evans are great at selling bikes cheaply. They are not good at spending time with a customer ensuring the bike is properly adjusted to suit them. Assuming the brakes themselves are properly adjusted, the rims are free of grease/oil and the pads are correctly fitted (they are directional), then I'd advise finding a reputable bike shop and popping in for a chat. For starters they can confirm that the brakes are properly adjusted and give you some help either with technique suggestions or adjusting the bike so you can get the most out of it. If you tell us which part of the UK you're in I'm sure someone can suggest one.
Coming from a MTB background, if you were running disk brakes then road rim brakes are definitely not as effective in the wet. If they're properly adjusted though they will be just as effective in the dry. I've got cheap Tektro brakes on my commuter and they've still been able to throw me over the front of the bike and onto the car that was causing me to slam on the anchors, but that's another story.FCN3: Titanium Qoroz.0 -
So it's a quiz for you to show how much you know? Just exactly how does your "guess" help the OP on this Beginner's Forum? And the 'he' you so glibly refer to is a 'she'. Next time perhaps you should read the thread and offer help rather than entirely unhelpful comments.dennisn wrote:merak wrote:
Dude, now that's really helpful...dennisn wrote:Operator / mechanic error / out of adjustment, is most likely.
Nothing that he said makes me think otherwise and it's "Road Beginners" forum. Human error is my likely choice as opposed to equipment failure(it's a fairly new bike). Are there any other choices???0 -
Unless the calipers are so open that you can pull the levers back to the bars or the pads are falling off the rims there aren't any adjustments that will affect the inherent stopping power of road brakes. The solutions for the OP include things that help small hands (which might include, shims to bring the lever arms closer to the bars, smaller levers more suited to smaller hands and adjusting the brakes for greater clearance so they bite when the levers are pulled closer to the bars - I prefer mine this way) and softer, grippier pad compounds.
IMO the weight, complexity and sensitivity to adjustment of disc brakes are unnecessary in most situations. Calipers are fine on road bikes and V-brakes are fine on mtbs. So the OP shouldn't feel that her brakes are inherently compromised - there will be a solution for her.0 -
Dont be so pedanticmerak wrote:
So it's a quiz for you to show how much you know? Just exactly how does your "guess" help the OP on this Beginner's Forum? And the 'he' you so glibly refer to is a 'she'. Next time perhaps you should read the thread and offer help rather than entirely unhelpful comments.dennisn wrote:merak wrote:
Dude, now that's really helpful...dennisn wrote:Operator / mechanic error / out of adjustment, is most likely.
Nothing that he said makes me think otherwise and it's "Road Beginners" forum. Human error is my likely choice as opposed to equipment failure(it's a fairly new bike). Are there any other choices???
I agree with the comment.it could be ppor technique pulling on the breaks, the breaks may have been pporly fitted and not sat on rims correctly, but more probably slack in the cable.
I have read so so many people who say they cannot break well. I do not have a gorilla like grip and actually suffer with athritis in my hands, but I use shimano breaks and pads and only ever break on the hoods and have never had issue with breaking, even at high speed when needed in a race descending.
Ah ok not quite true, I did have trouble in the wet with carbon rims using the above post recommended swiss stop pads.
Actually I do not think there is a good pad for carbon rims, just some are less crap than others but why pay £25 for crap when you can get crap for £8 ?
I make sure there is very little space between rims and pads so there is less movement required to operate the break when on hoods.0 -
@oldwelshman - you can brake (note spelling) well on the hoods; so can many people. The question is, how does that help the OP to sort out her obviously very real problem? She has told us she can't apply enough braking force from the hoods and can't easily reach the levers from the drops. Various people are making detailed and sensible suggestions about what she might do to sort this out and you are regaling us with tales of your carbon rims. Thanks for the help, guy.0
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merak wrote:Unless the calipers are so open that you can pull the levers back to the bars or the pads are falling off the rims there aren't any adjustments that will affect the inherent stopping power of road brakes. The solutions for the OP include things that help small hands (which might include, shims to bring the lever arms closer to the bars, smaller levers more suited to smaller hands and adjusting the brakes for greater clearance so they bite when the levers are pulled closer to the bars - I prefer mine this way) and softer, grippier pad compounds.
IMO the weight, complexity and sensitivity to adjustment of disc brakes are unnecessary in most situations. Calipers are fine on road bikes and V-brakes are fine on mtbs. So the OP shouldn't feel that her brakes are inherently compromised - there will be a solution for her.
So, your advise to her is go buy new stuff instead of having a qualifed mechanic look at what's going on? Just get new levers? It's the only solution??? Spend a ton of money you may not need to??? And I'm not at all buying your women are weaker and have smaller hands and need SPECIAL things. It's a set of reasonably new brakes gone out of adjustment. Have someone look at it, who knows what he or she is looking at. Grippier pads :roll: :roll: :roll:0 -
You obviously have a severe problem with reading comprehension.dennisn wrote:
So, your advise to her is go buy new stuff instead of having a qualifed mechanic look at what's going on? Just get new levers? It's the only solution??? Spend a ton of money you may not need to??? And I'm not at all buying your women are weaker and have smaller hands and need SPECIAL things. It's a set of reasonably new brakes gone out of adjustment. Have someone look at it, who knows what he or she is looking at. Grippier pads :roll: :roll: :roll:
Here's my advice which was the third post in this thread:
"There are some brakes that are better for small hands - in fact, I think there are female-specific brake-shifters. Shimano are not the best in this regard - Campag tend to be better for smaller hands.
On the other hand if you're a bloke with gorilla-like mitts, a change of brake pads might help. I use Campag, but I've heard good thinsg about Koolstop.
Perhaps a visit to your LBS is in order."
How do road brakes go out of adjustment to this extent, short of pulling both front and rear cables through their clamps so both levers go to the bars? How does "going out of adjustment" prevent her from operating the brakes from the drops? Are you saying that there is no difference in braking performance of different brake pads? It's not for you to buy whether the OP needs female-specific brake levers or shims to help with smaller hands but for her - are you saying that there should be no female-specific items in cycling including female-specific bicycles?
And explain again just how your first post was helpful in any way?0
