The bike that eats chains

tomhammersley

Hello all,

I've had a recurring problem with my commuter/training bike. It's a Ribble winter bike with Ultegra and Ultegra/Open Pro wheels. Dependable stuff, you'd think.

Only, it keeps killing chains. I've been through 8 chains so far this year. Around one a month would seem excessive. I've killed 105, Ultegra and KMC. I had a 7900 that was doing very well, but that broke as part of collateral damage when a mech hanger snapped.

Now, I'm a fairly hefty guy (6 foot 6 with a build to match), and I put a lot of mileage on that bike, but I'm beginning to wonder if it's all me. After my latest failure, I inspected the bike and noticed that the outer chainring is laterally out of true as you rotate the cranks. Maybe 3mm or so. Enough to see as you spin the cranks. Could this be contributing to the problem?

As a second point... what's the strongest 10-speed chain out there? The way it's going, I'll be moving over to motorbike chains soon.

Cheers.

wombar

You certainly shouldn't be getting through that many chains (obviously). So, there's either something fundamentally wrong with your bike, or the way the chains are being installed.

If you can see one of your chain rings is obviously bent, I'd say get it changed and go from there. Seems a bit unusual though to be honest. Any ideas why the mech hanger snapped?

Here are a couple other things to check:

1) Chain Tool - Make sure your chain tool is in good condition. It could be damaging the links as you're taking out the slack and creating a weak point.

2) Chain length - Are you getting the length right? Use the "Chain Sizing - Largest Cog and Largest Chainring Method" on this page to get it right.

http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-hel ... gth-sizing

You're not using the big ring up front and the big cog at the back are you? Just trying to rule out the basics first.

tomhammersley

The mech hanger snapped when I had an unfortunate chain derail incident. The chain derailed at the front, flapped around a bit, then decided it was best to spend its dying moments by wrapping itself betwen the cassette and the spokes. Instant drive train lock up, ripped off the hanger, and totalled the mech and a bunch of spokes in the process.

I actually believe that this may have been the cause of the bent chainring. Many other things have been replaced since this incident (rear mech, front mech, umpteen chains, wheel rebuild). The only constants in the drive train since the incident are the cassette and the chainset (including rings).

It's a standard double set up so I tend to avoid crossing the chain. It's not like it's a compact that tempts you into doing that.

Looking at the cost of replacement of new rings, I'm very tempted to just make the jump to a 6700 chainset instead as the bike already has 6700 mechs, cassette etc. It's only shifters, brakes and chainset that are 6600.

andyrr

and 'killing chains' : what happens to them : are they breaking - if so are you seeing similar types of breakages ? or are they just wearing out ? Are you keeping them lubed ?

tomhammersley

The most common breakage is the side plates getting ripped in half.

I keep up to date with lubing and degreasing, generally weekly.

estampida

go single speed and fit a 7-8 speed chain, 10 speed is even thinner that a 9......

but its the chain line (out in some way) and that has damaged the drive gear, so when you put a new chain on it gets ripped to shreads but the worn / damaged rings & cogs.......

tomhammersley

Actually as a side issue I am going to refurb my single speed and get that going again for the winter. Partially because of this chain issue, but partially because all these breakages show just how expensive fixing a 10-speed drive train can be, especially at the time of year that puts the most wear-and-tear on it.

estampida

so its not a side issue go s/s and you can stop complaining......

Ben6899

That twisted/out of line chainring will be knocking the sh1t out of the chain. Get it sorted and I think you'll have more luck.

tomhammersley

Thanks ben, that confirms my thinking. It must be getting mauled on every pedal stroke..

Ben6899

TomHammersley wrote:

Thanks ben, that confirms my thinking. It must be getting mauled on every pedal stroke..

Well considering the advice against cross-chaining... extrapolate that to a chainring running 3mm out of true and that's a lot of potential chain wear. Let us know how you get on.

Anonymous

I thought a few MM on the big chainring wasn't a mega issue?

I showed my old bashed up MTB to the LBS and he showed me his bike and it was the same. Definitely enough to notice as you spun the pedals round, haven't measured the exact distance though

Ben6899

What speed are your MTB and the LBS guy's bike? 10sp chains are narrow and won't tolerate a misaligned chainring very well, I wouldn't imagine.

Ben6899

Bollocks! Double post. Sorry.

nferrar

Narrowness won't be an issue, they're as strong as 9sp. That said I'd def sort the chainring, 3mm is a pretty big deflection and could well be putting strain on the chain is a direction it's not really designed to handle. Other than that only thing I can think of is you're doing something wrong when fitting them.

amaferanga

How are you rejoining the chains after splitting them?

Anonymous

Ah - my MTB was a 9spd (road cassette). As i said, it is a mishmash of random bits and pieces. Not sure about the LBS roadie though.

tomhammersley

The chains have been fitted in a variety of ways, including quick-links and shimano pins, both by myself and the LBS.

It's always been the outer plates of general links that have gone, never the join.

I've just put a new 5700 105 on it, so at least I can ride again. I'm definitely going to sort the chainring. I'm just due some money at the end of the month, so I'm waiting to see how much it is before deciding between a replacement 6600 ring and a new 6700 chainset.

bobgfish

I broke quite a few Shimano chains last year during winter. They were both 105 and Ultegra and 10 speed. Also saw several with the plates cracked and they got replaced after I found I could break it with my hands. I have swapped to KMC and won't look back. I've still got the same Cassette and Rings but my rings are fairly straight. They also seem to do nearly twice the distance before needing to be replaced. I did wonder at the time if it was the extreme cold casuing the failures with Shimano but KMC have been so good I won't go back.

dilemna

Just why are the bike chains "knackered"? Too stretched?

Is your riding style contributing to your chains' demises? ie you habitually ride large chain ring to large sprocket and small chain ring to small sprocket? I see many newbie numptees doing this. I even saw a guy who took his Cervelo in to an LBS to complain the chain was rubbing slightly against the front mech. The shop owner pointed out he was on the small front chain ring and the smallest rear sprocket ................ some have absolutely no common or mechanical sense.

I would get your bike down to an LBS with a mechanic that knows what they are doing for you as hell don't ............ The problems you describe are pretty funamental and if you had an idea about proper bike maintenance and setting a bike up you would have solved it pretty quickly. I would sign up to a bike maintenance/repair course as reading your posts it sounds you need it. If you can't join a chain so that it stays joined you need help! Messing around like you are wasting your money and time. I have never had a chain snap or break - 8, 9 or 10 speed, neither have I knackered so many drive train components as you have and I do all my own maintenance.

Sorry to be so harsh but you NEED to sign up to a bike maintenance course or find an LBS who aren't clueless when it comes to servicing bikes. Also don't stretch the chain across the full width of the cassette when you should change onto another chain ring. This will certainly prematurely wear out a chain.

ooermissus

dilemna wrote:

I would get your bike down to an LBS with a mechanic that knows what they are doing for you as hell don't ............ The problems you describe are pretty funamental and if you had an idea about proper bike maintenance and setting a bike up you would have solved it pretty quickly.

:roll:

tomhammersley

dilemma, just to recap:

The chains aren't breaking at the join. They're breaking at generic links at random points throughout the chain. Neither a Shimano chain pin link nor a KMC-style link has failed. It's always been outer-plate breakages.

Chains have been installed both by myself, and the LBS, so that's not a variable here. The bike (as a whole) has been in and out of the LBS a couple of times, so it's had expert eyes on it too.

I don't tend to cross the chain, as it's a 53/39 double setup. I tend to ride it as two distinct rings, as opposed to a compact which it's easy to fall into the "big ring for everything" trap.

So, latest changes: I've now installed an new 5700 105 chain (haven't tried one yet) and a new pair of TA Specialites Alize rings.

Interestingly, when I took off the old original Shimano rings they really were beat up. They were missing a couple of non-sequential teeth, and the teeth were clearly bent inboard on the outer ring just after the crank.

So, new bits on, we'll see how that goes. If it goes again the only remaining variable is the cassette which is due to be replaced early next year.

jonnym5

I'd just change the cassette anyway for the price of it.

I'd even change the jockey wheels if they are showing signs of wear just to the full drivetrain was new and alligned properly. What the point in new rings and chain if the worn cassette is going to wea the chain quicker?

There was a batch of oem ultegra chains that were just cacking on the plates and we had two customers who had retail ones fitted and had the same problem. These were customers who know what gears to use and often have £300 plus repairs as they do heavy mileage.

tomhammersley

Jockey wheels aren't a concern, It's just had a brand new ultegra mech a few weeks back.

I might give the cassette a crack TBH. Half tempted to try out one of the new 4600 10-speed cassettes as something cheap to run over the winter.