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9/11 anniversary today.....your thoughts ?

AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
edited September 2011 in The bottom bracket
10 years on and we have.......

Iraq struggling to get it together from an invasion that was illegal, not to mention immoral.
Afghanistan, why exactly have we, the west, have troops there, fighting and dying ?
Terrorists who gladly blow themselves up for what hat filled cause ?
Countries line Iran and N Korea demonized by the western press at America's behest.
Suspicion in the N hemisphere of most things Muslim, and in the UK an increase in BNP support/awareness.

Not good, sad day, just thinking of what happened and how a decade has reformed the world from that 1 day.

What do you all think ?
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Posts

  • Can't argue with any of that DMC.

    One positive to come out of it was, overnight, funding of the IRA by American citizens dried up and help bring about the uneasy peace now maintained in Northern Ireland.

    Truely shocking scenes and THE standout thing (other than the massive loss of life) was we all saw it unfold on our TVs rather than it just be an after the event news report which is the case in most terrorist attacks.
    Tail end Charlie

    The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.
  • What I find most disgusting is the amount of civilian deaths in Afganistan and Iraq that were caused by the "war on terror".
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 25,200
    If you re interested the Independent has had some really good article on this recently. i f you re a podcast listener the BBC have also had some great R4 documentaries or "letters from 9/11" podcasts. The Reith lectures by the ex head of MI5 are also well worth a listen
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • A work of (evil) genius - to use the plane itself as a bomb instead of having to get a bomb onto a plane was very clever, and whilst they knew their actions would have considerable impact they could not have ever imagined the ultimate scale of destruction.

    The irony of the supposed war on terror is we are now less free although not because of terrorism but because of our own leaders (think electronic monitoring and the abuse of RIPA) although it could have been a lot worse (remember car tracking and the National ID scheme).

    The war on terror was never really about tackling terror but about the West imposing its will on others and gaining access to resources we want and as long as we continue to support terrorists (or rebel organisations when we fund their war) in such pursuits then we create the situation where those affected by Western imperialism will want to rebel.
  • dmclite wrote:
    Terrorists who gladly blow themselves up for what hat filled cause ?

    I was going to take the bait and make some glib remark about radical milinery, but then this email arrived in my inbox. I thought I'd post it here as it's reassuring to find something genuinely positive amongst all the bleakness, the conspiracy theories and the tedious mantras of insipid apologists. If you've never heard of meetups, here's the link.

    Fellow Meetuppers,

    I don't write to our whole community often, but this week is special because it's the 10th anniversary of 9/11 and many people don't know that Meetup is a 9/11 baby.

    Let me tell you the Meetup story. I was living a couple miles from the Twin Towers, and I was the kind of person who thought local community doesn't matter much if we've got the internet and tv. The only time I thought about my neighbors was when I hoped they wouldn't bother me.

    When the towers fell, I found myself talking to more neighbors in the days after 9/11 than ever before. People said hello to neighbors (next-door and across the city) who they'd normally ignore. People were looking after each other, helping each other, and meeting up with each other. You know, being neighborly.

    A lot of people were thinking that maybe 9/11 could bring people together in a lasting way. So the idea for Meetup was born: Could we use the internet to get off the internet -- and grow local communities?

    We didn't know if it would work. Most people thought it was a crazy idea -- especially because terrorism is designed to make people distrust one another.

    A small team came together, and we launched Meetup 9 months after 9/11.

    Today, almost 10 years and 10 million Meetuppers later, it's working. Every day, thousands of Meetups happen. Moms Meetups,Small Business Meetups, Fitness Meetups... a wild variety of 100,000 Meetup Groups with not much in common -- except one thing.

    Every Meetup starts with people simply saying hello to neighbors. And what often happens next is still amazing to me. They grow businesses and bands together, they teach and motivate each other, they babysit each other's kids and find other ways to work together. They have fun and find solace together. They make friends and form powerful community. It's powerful stuff.

    It's a wonderful revolution in local community, and it's thanks to everyone who shows up.

    Meetups aren't about 9/11, but they may not be happening if it weren't for 9/11.

    9/11 didn't make us too scared to go outside or talk to strangers. 9/11 didn't rip us apart. No, we're building new community together!!!!

    The towers fell, but we rise up. And we're just getting started with these Meetups.

    Scott Heiferman (on behalf of 80 people at Meetup HQ)
    Co-Founder & CEO, Meetup
    New York City
    September 2011
  • dmclite wrote:
    10 years on and we have.......


    Countries line Iran and N Korea demonized by the western press at America's behest.


    What do you all think ?

    Just a question, are you saying N Korea is rather benelovent and is just the victim of mis-representation?
  • it makes me sick. I listened to a play on R4 yesterday about this 9/11 & how the president & the rest of his cronies kept say how they would not stand for terrorism or countries who supported terrorism, we lived in this country for years with the constant threat of bombs going off planted by the IRA supported by US dollars, I can remember the bins in tube stations going, posters stuck up all over the place warning about bags left alone, going shopping & having to get out of M&S or woolworths because of a bomb threat.
    Not the biggest supporter of the good ole us of a . about time they got a grip
  • bagpusscpbagpusscp Posts: 2,907
    ....as a black van pulls up outside your house.





    :wink:
    bagpuss
  • MichaelWMichaelW Posts: 2,164
    What exactly was the agenda of OBL. I'm not sure that we really understand that, even 10yrs on.
    The response by the USA was cack-handed from the beginning. From the word "crusade" to the botched Taleban diplomacy to letting OBL and co escape to Pakistan to forgetting about Afghanistan altogether in favour of invading Iraq (because he was mean to my Daddy), then going back and trying to foist democracy on a clan-based medieaval society. That ignoring the lies, illegalities, wholesale trampling of our liberties and industrial scale collateral damage .
    We all know how Iraq was botched: favouring Pentagon neo-cons over the State Dept who knew the situation on the ground and actually had a plan.

    I guess its not that easy running a global mega-power but really.
    C-minus: could do better.
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    CrackFox wrote:
    dmclite wrote:
    Terrorists who gladly blow themselves up for what hate filled cause ?

    I was going to take the bait and make some glib remark about radical milinery, but then this email arrived in my inbox. I thought I'd post it here as it's reassuring to find something genuinely positive amongst all the bleakness, the conspiracy theories and the tedious mantras of insipid apologists. If you've never heard of meetups, here's the link.

    Fellow Meetuppers,

    I don't write to our whole community often, but this week is special because it's the 10th anniversary of 9/11 and many people don't know that Meetup is a 9/11 baby.

    Let me tell you the Meetup story. I was living a couple miles from the Twin Towers, and I was the kind of person who thought local community doesn't matter much if we've got the internet and tv. The only time I thought about my neighbors was when I hoped they wouldn't bother me.

    When the towers fell, I found myself talking to more neighbors in the days after 9/11 than ever before. People said hello to neighbors (next-door and across the city) who they'd normally ignore. People were looking after each other, helping each other, and meeting up with each other. You know, being neighborly.

    A lot of people were thinking that maybe 9/11 could bring people together in a lasting way. So the idea for Meetup was born: Could we use the internet to get off the internet -- and grow local communities?

    We didn't know if it would work. Most people thought it was a crazy idea -- especially because terrorism is designed to make people distrust one another.

    A small team came together, and we launched Meetup 9 months after 9/11.

    Today, almost 10 years and 10 million Meetuppers later, it's working. Every day, thousands of Meetups happen. Moms Meetups,Small Business Meetups, Fitness Meetups... a wild variety of 100,000 Meetup Groups with not much in common -- except one thing.

    Every Meetup starts with people simply saying hello to neighbors. And what often happens next is still amazing to me. They grow businesses and bands together, they teach and motivate each other, they babysit each other's kids and find other ways to work together. They have fun and find solace together. They make friends and form powerful community. It's powerful stuff.

    It's a wonderful revolution in local community, and it's thanks to everyone who shows up.

    Meetups aren't about 9/11, but they may not be happening if it weren't for 9/11.

    9/11 didn't make us too scared to go outside or talk to strangers. 9/11 didn't rip us apart. No, we're building new community together!!!!

    The towers fell, but we rise up. And we're just getting started with these Meetups.

    Scott Heiferman (on behalf of 80 people at Meetup HQ)
    Co-Founder & CEO, Meetup
    New York City
    September 2011

    Fixed.
  • anto164anto164 Posts: 3,500
    It was a bit windy today!
  • Had a Skyride in Dublin today! Bad timing or what. Before I registered I e-mailed them about the date and I was assured that 'something appropriate' would be done to mark the significance of the day. Guess what? Nothing at all was done. Not good Sky - should be ashamed of yourselves. BTW - where did you get the moronic MC from? Telling people over the PA that 'X is on my left', 'Y is just in front of me'. Fine if you know where the MC is..
    Visit Ireland - all of it! Cycle in Dublin and know fear!!
    exercise.png
  • garrynolan wrote:
    Had a Skyride in Dublin today! Bad timing or what...

    Not really.

    Are you suggesting they shouldn't have held it today?
    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
    Believe in miracles
    And cures and healing wells
  • finchyfinchy Posts: 6,686
    garrynolan wrote:
    Had a Skyride in Dublin today! Bad timing or what. Before I registered I e-mailed them about the date and I was assured that 'something appropriate' would be done to mark the significance of the day. Guess what? Nothing at all was done. Not good Sky - should be ashamed of yourselves.

    Why? Naturally I feel sorry for the victims and their families, but why should we have to commemorate 11/9 and not, say, Srebrenica or Rwanda? They were humans too, and their lives were just as valuable as those who were murdered in the USA.
  • Personally I believe that it should be commemorated (as should those others mentioned - they were longer actions as were WW1 and WW2). Sky said something would be done and it wasn't. Would you do a Skyride on Remembrance Sunday if you couldn't commemorate it in some way? Would you do it if they said it would be treated like any other Sunday? I'm not trying to start an argument over this but my view is that I wouldn't have done it if I knew nothing was going to be done to commemorate the day that's in it. Same with Remembrance Sunday. G.
    Visit Ireland - all of it! Cycle in Dublin and know fear!!
    exercise.png
  • StillGoingStillGoing Posts: 5,207
    I can't believe anyone thinks Iran and North Korea are being demonized simply at the behest of the bully in the west i.e. the USA. Both countries are quite happy to have their citizens living in abstract poverty while those running it reap the rewards. One is already a nuclear power prone to shooting down passenger airlines and South Korean warships that were in their own territories, while Iran is determined to be the next nuclear power. Not one Arab country wants Iran to get hold of a nuclear capability simply because they will destroy what there is of a fragile peace. OBL managed to flee to Pakistan with the assistance of the Pakistan secret service. Pakistan is paid millions in aid by us but spends it on increasing their nuclear arsenal. The third world haven't got the morality or common sense to avoid war If these countries are so sympathetic to the rights of their citizens, (remember you can't practice Christianity in some of them), why do countless numbers try to get out and not just to the UK for it's stupid benefits system? These countries rule by fear and are governed by psychopaths worse than ours. At least we haven't ventured down the route of interning anyone that doesn't vote correctly or dare voice an opinion about the leadership. Not yet anyway.
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
  • i think youll find it was our american "friends" who were the ones shooting down airliners-

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

    but dont let facts get in the way of your prejudices- carry on!
    'dont forget lads, one evertonian is worth twenty kopites'
  • garrynolan wrote:
    Personally I believe that it should be commemorated (as should those others mentioned - they were longer actions as were WW1 and WW2). Sky said something would be done and it wasn't. Would you do a Skyride on Remembrance Sunday if you couldn't commemorate it in some way? Would you do it if they said it would be treated like any other Sunday? I'm not trying to start an argument over this but my view is that I wouldn't have done it if I knew nothing was going to be done to commemorate the day that's in it. Same with Remembrance Sunday. G.


    Apologies

    You weren't quite saying in your OP what I thought you were.

    A minutes silence or something similar before the ride started would have been entirely appropriate.
    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
    Believe in miracles
    And cures and healing wells
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 65,473 Lives Here
    Think we can all agree that 9/11 and the fallout it caused was sh!t for everyone, save a few arms dealers.
  • CressersCressers Posts: 1,329
    The security-surveillance complex did well from 9/11.
  • StillGoingStillGoing Posts: 5,207
    i think youll find it was our american "friends" who were the ones shooting down airliners-

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

    but dont let facts get in the way of your prejudices- carry on!

    Yes you're right; two South Korean Marines fired on an airline that was out of range with rifle fire after mistaking it for a North Korean plane. Tensions at the time were high following two attacks on South Korea by the north.

    And less of the childish "prejudice" remarks.
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
  • plowmarplowmar Posts: 1,032
    I wonder whether American media will go overboard re terrorist attacks on 7/7/2015 ?

    Or will it even get an inside page by-line?

    Sad though it was, more people are killed in America by Americans every year.

    The hypocrisy that followed the event and the stage managed response was truly mind blowing, without any thought as to what would happen after 'winning' in Iraq.
  • CressersCressers Posts: 1,329
    I wonder whether American media will go overboard re terrorist attacks on 7/7/2015 ?

    Do you have advance warning or a well developed psychic sense?
  • timb64timb64 Posts: 248
    edited September 2011
    Whilst I think it's right due respect is shown to the direct victims of 9/11 it always amazes me that the response/effect it has had completely outweighs the reaction to the 2004 earthquake/tsunami .Just under 3000 US/Westerners as opposed to 230,000 mostly Asian deaths!
    Contrast also the financial cost .It's estimated the US directly spent $845 Billion on the Iraq war and the global response to the Tsunami was $14 Billion in humanitarian aid.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 65,473 Lives Here
    timb64 wrote:
    Whilst I think it's right due respect is shown to the direct victims of 9/11 it always amazes me that the response/effect it has had completely outweighs the reaction to the 2004 earthquake/tsunami .Just under 3000 US/Westerners as opposed to 230,000 mostly Asian deaths!

    Natural disaster - terrorist attack.

    It's pretty different.
  • CressersCressers Posts: 1,329
    How many people die in RTAs every year in the USA? How many people die from malaria worldwide each year? Yet we never hear of a 'War Against Cars" or a "War Against Mosquitoes"...
  • timb64timb64 Posts: 248
    I agree with you Cressers my feeling has always been that US( and by association UK) reaction to 9/11 was neither correctly directed or proportionate.
  • philthy3 wrote:
    i think youll find it was our american "friends" who were the ones shooting down airliners-

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

    but dont let facts get in the way of your prejudices- carry on!

    Yes you're right; two South Korean Marines fired on an airline that was out of range with rifle fire after mistaking it for a North Korean plane. Tensions at the time were high following two attacks on South Korea by the north.

    And less of the childish "prejudice" remarks.

    you obviously didnt bother reading the link did you?

    never mind
    'dont forget lads, one evertonian is worth twenty kopites'
  • redddraggonredddraggon Posts: 10,862
    It's november already?
    I like bikes...

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