Ferrari on Vuelta

iainf72
iainf72 Posts: 15,784
edited June 2019 in Pro race
http://www.53x12.com/do/show?page=indepth.view&id=125

Some numbers for all you estimated wattage fans out there
Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.

Comments

  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,649
    Hmmmmm......

    Would hope http://www.sportsscientists.com/ have a peek at those numbers... Not off the scale, but suspiciously high for the end of a hard day. Wonder what Cobo's last 2km works out as.
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  • timoid.
    timoid. Posts: 3,133
    Isn't 6w/kg the line over which is shouldn't be humanly possible?

    Unassisted that is.
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    Timoid. wrote:
    Isn't 6w/kg the line over which is shouldn't be humanly possible?

    Unassisted that is.

    So on that basis then you must think Cobo,Froome and Wiggins are all juiced up then ?
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • amaferanga
    amaferanga Posts: 6,789
    Timoid. wrote:
    Isn't 6w/kg the line over which is shouldn't be humanly possible?

    Unassisted that is.

    You need to specify the duration though. I guess you're referring to FTP in which case you may be right.
    More problems but still living....
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    Moray Gub wrote:
    Timoid. wrote:
    Isn't 6w/kg the line over which is shouldn't be humanly possible?

    Unassisted that is.

    So on that basis then you must think Cobo,Froome and Wiggins are all juiced up then ?

    yes, catching the riders with the drugs isn't necessary anymore :D:D bikeradar judge, jury and executioner!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,649
    Dave_1 wrote:
    Moray Gub wrote:
    Timoid. wrote:
    Isn't 6w/kg the line over which is shouldn't be humanly possible?

    Unassisted that is.

    So on that basis then you must think Cobo,Froome and Wiggins are all juiced up then ?

    yes, catching the riders with the drugs isn't necessary anymore :D:D bikeradar judge, jury and executioner!

    Not quite. We don't hand out bans, we don't hire and fire riders, in fact we do nothing but have opinions and share them.

    In a sport like cycling, where so many have disappointed, so many times, it's natural for us to be suspicious. And it's natural for us to form, and share, our personal lists of who we are fairly sure are clean and who we're not sure of. The amount of power a rider puts out on a big climb, for a sustained length of time, at the end of a hard day is one of the markers we use.

    Given the limited faith we have in the UCI/WADA actually managing to catch dopers we look for what clues we can find outside of a positive test. It's the Bikeradar index of suspicion. Nothing more.
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  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,649
    Timoid. wrote:
    Isn't 6w/kg the line over which is shouldn't be humanly possible?

    Unassisted that is.

    6w/kg is easily acheivable for a short period of time, and riders can peak at far higher.

    Suspicion generally gets raised at sustained 6.2-6.3 range.

    There's a lot of estimation involved though, unless you have source data from the rider's own power meter (which still requires that his weight was fed in accurately)

    http://www.sportsscientists.com/2009/07 ... mates.html
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  • zammmmo
    zammmmo Posts: 315
    Don't forget VAM gives slightly higher figures for very steep climbs. Cobo still looks a bit shifty to me though. :wink:
  • dougzz
    dougzz Posts: 1,833
    zammmmo wrote:
    Don't forget VAM gives slightly higher figures for very steep climbs. Cobo still looks a bit shifty to me though. :wink:

    No, it's perfectly normal to be able to follow a juiced Piepoli up a mountain, then do nothing for 3 years until just winning a GT out the blue, perfectly normal :D
  • pedro118118
    pedro118118 Posts: 1,102
    dougzz wrote:
    zammmmo wrote:
    Don't forget VAM gives slightly higher figures for very steep climbs. Cobo still looks a bit shifty to me though. :wink:

    No, it's perfectly normal to be able to follow a juiced Piepoli up a mountain, then do nothing for 3 years until just winning a GT out the blue, perfectly normal :D

    If we're talking about inconsistancy of results and a performance out of the blue, then why aren't we having the same discussion about Froome? Or is it just because Cobo is Spanish? And "shifty"? And formerly Saunier Duval.
  • MrTapir
    MrTapir Posts: 1,206
    Not too sure about the science but i thought the stage that Froome won after coming up the inside was encouraging from a 'cleaner cycling' point of view. It seemed that both Froome and Cobo could put in a massive effort for only a limited amount of time before having to throttle back.

    I quite like Cobo, and how his helmet is positioned a bit far back, it seems a bit amateurish which is kind of cool.
  • Bronzie
    Bronzie Posts: 4,927
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    Timoid. wrote:
    Isn't 6w/kg the line over which is shouldn't be humanly possible?

    Unassisted that is.

    6w/kg is easily acheivable for a short period of time, and riders can peak at far higher.

    Suspicion generally gets raised at sustained 6.2-6.3 range.
    6.2w/kg Functional Threshold Power (best ~1hour steady state effort) is supposed to be the magic number.

    Estimates from the late 90's had Ullrich and co up around 6.7W/kg.

    But without reliable data (and VAM calculations are definitley not reliable), it's all a bit of pointless speculation.
    It's a Lifestyle! -+-+- Coggan Training Levels
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    Too many variables. Steep climbs can help the numbers but at the speed these guys go, even drafting a rider uphill make a big difference.
  • dougzz
    dougzz Posts: 1,833
    pedro118118 wrote:
    dougzz wrote:
    zammmmo wrote:
    Don't forget VAM gives slightly higher figures for very steep climbs. Cobo still looks a bit shifty to me though. :wink:

    No, it's perfectly normal to be able to follow a juiced Piepoli up a mountain, then do nothing for 3 years until just winning a GT out the blue, perfectly normal :D

    If we're talking about inconsistancy of results and a performance out of the blue, then why aren't we having the same discussion about Froome? Or is it just because Cobo is Spanish? And "shifty"? And formerly Saunier Duval.
    He certainly qualifies as shifty, and yes his association with Saunier Duval, or more to the point Gianetti. As for Spanish, you said that, I never mentioned it. Froome, yes I think it's raised a question, but Sky are a whole different ball game to a Gianetti team.
  • timoid.
    timoid. Posts: 3,133
    Moray Gub wrote:
    Timoid. wrote:
    Isn't 6w/kg the line over which is shouldn't be humanly possible?

    Unassisted that is.

    So on that basis then you must think Cobo,Froome and Wiggins are all juiced up then ?

    Not sure if that is sarcasm or you want a biscuit for your perception.

    If I was running a the sport I'd look pretty damn close at anyone who managed over 6w/kg, especially those who have suddenly improved mid-career (Wiggins in 09, the other two this year).

    I'd rate all three as very suspicious.
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • zammmmo
    zammmmo Posts: 315
    pedro118118 wrote:
    dougzz wrote:
    zammmmo wrote:
    Don't forget VAM gives slightly higher figures for very steep climbs. Cobo still looks a bit shifty to me though. :wink:

    No, it's perfectly normal to be able to follow a juiced Piepoli up a mountain, then do nothing for 3 years until just winning a GT out the blue, perfectly normal :D

    If we're talking about inconsistancy of results and a performance out of the blue, then why aren't we having the same discussion about Froome? Or is it just because Cobo is Spanish? And "shifty"? And formerly Saunier Duval.

    Oh well...it only took nearly 8 years to be vindicated. :wink:
    (apols for dredging up an old thread when we already have a current 'Cobo' one).
  • FocusZing
    FocusZing Posts: 4,373
    zammmmo wrote:
    pedro118118 wrote:
    dougzz wrote:
    zammmmo wrote:
    Don't forget VAM gives slightly higher figures for very steep climbs. Cobo still looks a bit shifty to me though. :wink:

    No, it's perfectly normal to be able to follow a juiced Piepoli up a mountain, then do nothing for 3 years until just winning a GT out the blue, perfectly normal :D

    If we're talking about inconsistancy of results and a performance out of the blue, then why aren't we having the same discussion about Froome? Or is it just because Cobo is Spanish? And "shifty"? And formerly Saunier Duval.

    Oh well...it only took nearly 8 years to be vindicated. :wink:
    (apols for dredging up an old thread when we already have a current 'Cobo' one).

    Top marks on thread follow-up too.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,435
    Pretty sure the same discussion has been had ad infinitum about Froome since then as well...
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    Ah, the gentler social media days of 2011 when 'looks a bit shifty' was the worst condemnation anyone could muster
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Alejandrosdog
    Alejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    Timoid. wrote:
    Moray Gub wrote:
    Timoid. wrote:
    Isn't 6w/kg the line over which is shouldn't be humanly possible?

    Unassisted that is.

    So on that basis then you must think Cobo,Froome and Wiggins are all juiced up then ?

    Not sure if that is sarcasm or you want a biscuit for your perception.

    If I was running a the sport I'd look pretty damn close at anyone who managed over 6w/kg, especially those who have suddenly improved mid-career (Wiggins in 09, the other two this year).

    I'd rate all three as very suspicious.

    he was right about that you know

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